2yr old with an enlarged heart

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Munchie09

Well he does have a heart mumer guys... Maybe I will take him one day but I don't have the money for that right now.0ver 600 dollars has already come out of my pockets for vet visits.

You might want to look into Care Credit to finance your dog's vet care.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

If he has a heart murmur and the vet thinks it warrants Enalapril, then he needs to be on that drug. With a murmur and possible enlargement, that drug is very likely necessary for his health. Vets don't hand out heart meds for no reason.

Vitamins cannot replace drugs in most cases. There is enough danger just because he has heart disease. Not treating it how it needs to be puts him in even more danger.

Originally Posted by gemy

I understand that money can be an issue. But a consult only might only be about 150-200 depending on where you go for a cardiologist. Heart disease is a serious concern, and can conceivably limit the life of your dog by years. Many different med's are available to help alleviate and control heart problems, which will help in extending the healthy life of your pup.

So maybe just put some money aside, plan to see the cardiologist and see what they say.

Originally Posted by 107barney

You might want to look into Care Credit to finance your dog's vet care.

Agreed.....this pup more than likely needs to be on the Enalapril. Heart issues are nothing to play with.

You can apply for Care Credit at CareCredit Healthcare Finance - Payment Plans and Financing for Cosmetic Surgery, Dental, Vision, Hearing, Veterinary & Other Medical Procedures You never know when an emergency might crop up and it is good to have a credit card for such purposes.

[Munchie09]

There are many dogs that had the same problem and more that's on the same program that my dog is on and ended up being better than ever. I'm not putting him on the drugs. There a natural remedies that work the same or better than the drugs with no side effects. I researched this guys. You can look it up yourself. Its called NTR

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Munchie09

There are many dogs that had the same problem and more that's on the same program that my dog is on and ended up being better than ever. I'm not putting him on the drugs. There a natural remedies that work the same or better than the drugs with no side effects. I researched this guys. You can look it up yourself. Its called NTR

Just curious: How do you know that many other pups had the same condition and ended up better than ever? Who told you about those dogs?
What is your pup's diagnosis?

Also curious about what kind of research you did? In my way of thinking, research can only be complete if you look at both sides. Since you already have stated you don't approve of medications, and since you do not wish to go to a cardiologist, there is no way that you could say that you have done research.

I will pray for your pup.

[Ellie May]

I happen to have a heart problem (or problems). Diet and exercise are important for me. However, I still take a drug for the issues. I still see a cardiologist regularly. I still have echocardiograms and monitoring to make sure everything is okay. And if any of my doctors ever so much as suggested that nutrition without drugs and/or proper monitoring was the answer, I'd report them for investigation.

This can't be found in true scientific studies. Just because one holistic practitioner or a group of people say something is so, that doesn't make it so. To prove that something like this works, there would have to be a well controlled, massive study with cardiac monitoring for those who got a drug and those who got NRT. Not going to happen because scientists know that nutrition can't replace drugs most of the time.

to each their own. However, this is not standard of care or considered medically acceptable. It is considered a risk to your dog and he could very well suffer for it.

[107barney]

I looked up your Cataplex G. It's a concoction of nonsense with a few vitamins thrown in. I also looked quickly for independent scientific studies to support the claims I could fine none.

[gidget529]

Originally Posted by Munchie09

There are many dogs that had the same problem and more that's on the same program that my dog is on and ended up being better than ever. I'm not putting him on the drugs. There a natural remedies that work the same or better than the drugs with no side effects. I researched this guys. You can look it up yourself. Its called NTR

I hope you do not view my post as argumentative. I know tone is lost a lot in these posting. I truly want to just give you some info to help you make a decision in your pet's care.

I worked in human cardiology for years, have education in it and professional licensure(s). I don't know if your DVM explained what murmurs are. They are a symptom of some kind of aberrant flow of blood. They can be caused by things that are not very concerning, such as a slight leak in a heart valve (which means as the blood flows from one chamber to another, the valve leaflets are not closing correctly, causing some backflow on blood).

They can also be caused by very concerning things, such as valves that were not formed correctly and have a lot of backflow; inside walls of the heart separating the chambers that did not form correctly and have a hole, allowing a mixing of oxygenated and non-oxygenated blood and creating a heart that does not pump effectively; and leftover fetal circulation, which is the way blood circulates between the heart and lungs while the pup (or human) is still in their mother's womb and she is breathing for them.

[gidget529]

Originally Posted by Munchie09

There are many dogs that had the same problem and more that's on the same program that my dog is on and ended up being better than ever. I'm not putting him on the drugs. There a natural remedies that work the same or better than the drugs with no side effects. I researched this guys. You can look it up yourself. Its called NTR

I hope you do not view my post as argumentative. I know tone is lost a lot in these posting. I truly want to just give you some info to help you make a decision in your pet's care.

I worked in human cardiology for years, have education in it and professional licensure(s). I don't know if your DVM explained what murmurs are. They are a symptom of some kind of aberrant flow of blood. They can be caused by things that are not very concerning, such as a slight leak in a heart valve (which means as the blood flows from one chamber to another, the valve leaflets are not closing correctly, causing some backflow of blood).

They can also be caused by very concerning things, such as valves that were not formed correctly and have a lot of backflow; inside walls of the heart separating the chambers that did not form correctly and have a hole, allowing a mixing of oxygenated and non-oxygenated blood and creating a heart that does not pump effectively; and leftover fetal circulation, which is the way blood circulates between the heart and lungs while the pup (or human) is still in their mother's womb and she is breathing for them.

All of these causes are mechanical in nature, and vitamins cannot fix a mechanical problem. I think that is great that you put research into your pet's care. I'm just trying to give you more info to help.

The enlarged heart could just be the way the x-ray looked, but w the murmur in a 2-year-old dog, I would highly recommend getting a cardiac ultrasound. This test is highly accurate and gives a very good picture of what is going on inside the chest. This will help direct your pup's care so that it can be done more efficiently, saving you $ in the end, and hopefully giving your pup a better life.

Please feel free to private message me. You also might want to google some of the things I mentioned that causes murmurs and read about them.

[gidget529]

Sorry, I don't know how the first one posted while I was typing. The second post is the full post.

[Wylie's Mom]

Completely agree w/ Ellie May and Gidget529.

Has congestive heart failure been explored? CHF can result in sudden death and it should be looked at.

Like Gidget59, I worked in cardiology for 7 years - specifically w/ implantable cardiac devices, with multiple causes.

Personally, I would not (under any circumstances) use a Holistic Vet for cardiac issues - your kiddo's heart needs to managed by a Vet cardiologist, or similar. Using a holistic vet is not worth it when you weigh the risk.

[bchgirl]

Originally Posted by gidget529

In humans, enlarged hearts on x-ray can just be an x-ray that is a little deceiving, cardiomyopathy or increased pericardial fluid/tamponade - most likely culprits. Why would it be in yorkies? Are they just a little anatomically large for the thoracic cavity? You've got me curious.

Yes according to the cardiologist we saw. She also told me general veterinary practices use an image chart to compare size with x rays.

But don't we all know yorkies have bigger hearts?

[kjc]

Originally Posted by bchgirl

Yes according to the cardiologist we saw. She also told me general veterinary practices use an image chart to compare size with x rays.

But don't we all know yorkies have bigger hearts?

My vet said the same thing. I knew Yorkies had big hearts, I just didn't take it literally!

[gidget529]

Originally Posted by kjc

My vet said the same thing. I knew Yorkies had big hearts, I just didn't take it literally!

Originally Posted by bchgirl

Yes according to the cardiologist we saw. She also told me general veterinary practices use an image chart to compare size with x rays.

But don't we all know yorkies have bigger hearts?

Gotta thank you two and Ellie May - I learn something new all the time here! (Gotta agree, always knew they had big hearts but thought it was figuratively!)

Wylie's Mom has a good point also about CHF being considered. She worked w implantable devices - very smart ppl! (I think this site attracts some very smart ppl who have invaluable insight - which I have personally benefitted from! I would encourage the OP to join me in getting to know these ppl better and to enjoy learning new things from them!)

[Munchie09]

At no means do I mean to sound like I'm mad cause I'm not and I thank you guys for responding. I understand why u think drugs are needed. But I know form my experience from the improvement I'm seeing with my dog that the program he is on is better than the drugs. Hear is a link to his vet website where others with sick animals have gotten better. Main Street Vets, Stone Mountain Georgia

[Munchie09]

I totally understand why you guys would think that I'm crazy. But here is his vet website see for yourself.Main Street Vets, Stone Mountain Georgia Also as I stated before my dog health has improved not many can say that with a dog with hearth issues!