ratio/amount of chicken & rice

[Sweet Apple]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Exellent feedback.

feedback (?) a good pun, whether intentional or not lol... I will talk w/Dr. R, instead of going to chicken and rice...Perhaps she will refer me to the nutrionist at A&M....I guess, in my mind, they would have to do a scope (or worse exploratory surgery) or something, to determine what, exactly, was/is her issue, but if she's not having syptoms, I guess nothing would show? Btw, I do have her on plain organic yogurt (w/no additives, whatsoever...it's Kalona) and have, for the past 6 days, w/no symptoms, whatsoever...My thinking is this is putting back the good bacteria, in her gut, that the anti-biotics killed...I've been watching her stools, like a hawk, and they all look great (if you can call a stool great )

Thanks, everyone for the input...I'm not a democrat, but I do believe we need a village to raise these yorkies

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Sweet Apple

feedback (?) a good pun, whether intentional or not lol... I will talk w/Dr. R, instead of going to chicken and rice...Perhaps she will refer me to the nutrionist at A&M....I guess, in my mind, they would have to do a scope (or worse exploratory surgery) or something, to determine what, exactly, was/is her issue, but if she's not having syptoms, I guess nothing would show? Btw, I do have her on plain organic yogurt (w/no additives, whatsoever...it's Kalona) and have, for the past 6 days, w/no symptoms, whatsoever...My thinking is this is putting back the good bacteria, in her gut, that the anti-biotics killed...I've been watching her stools, like a hawk, and they all look great (if you can call a stool great )

Thanks, everyone for the input...I'm not a democrat, but I do believe we need a village to raise these yorkies

She may just suggest another dog food. I don't know. The only reason we went with the nutritionist was because there was no food that would be good for Cody because of his issues.
I only suggested the nutritionist since you seem to want to avoid dog food.

[kjc]

One can do a 60% commercial type dog food and add 40% whatever (like chicken , white rice, green beans) and still the dog will be getting enough nutrients, without having to add anything extra.
Dogs with even minor digestive issues should never be fed brown rice. Normally, chicken and white rice (1:1) is prescribed as a bland diet (easily digested), and brown rice is very hard for a dog to digest. Good for people, not so good for doggies.

And, I do agree, discussing diets with one's vet is a must, especially with a dog that has digestive problems.

[Ellie May]

Why would she need a scope?? I wouldn't be too concerned about that now unless she is still having symptoms or your vet is concerned.

[jrsygal37]

Originally Posted by jeanm1963

I feed Laci Chicken and Rice, but I take dog kibble put it in the grinder and sprinkle it on , she also will eat kibble through out the day, she is VERY healthy.

I do the same thing, also I include carrots in the mix. I boil fresh chicken breast, brown rice and carrots and grind up the dry food and mix it in. I use Chicken Soup Holistic Kibble and have been very happy. Elaine

[jrsygal37]

Originally Posted by kjc

One can do a 60% commercial type dog food and add 40% whatever (like chicken , white rice, green beans) and still the dog will be getting enough nutrients, without having to add anything extra.
Dogs with even minor digestive issues should never be fed brown rice. Normally, chicken and white rice (1:1) is prescribed as a bland diet (easily digested), and brown rice is very hard for a dog to digest. Good for people, not so good for doggies.

And, I do agree, discussing diets with one's vet is a must, especially with a dog that has digestive problems.

That is good to know abuot the brown rice. I thought it would be healthier. I'll have to use white rice now. Thanks for the heads up.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by kjc

One can do a 60% commercial type dog food and add 40% whatever (like chicken , white rice, green beans) and still the dog will be getting enough nutrients, without having to add anything extra.
Dogs with even minor digestive issues should never be fed brown rice. Normally, chicken and white rice (1:1) is prescribed as a bland diet (easily digested), and brown rice is very hard for a dog to digest. Good for people, not so good for doggies.

And, I do agree, discussing diets with one's vet is a must, especially with a dog that has digestive problems.

Barney has been eating brown rice and chicken his whole life, never getting sick except for two acute attacks of pancreatitis due to eating Wellness brand dog canned dog food (didn't make the link until the second episode 5 years later

Anyway, since the two attacks, Barney's fat content was lowered. His diet was formulated with brown rice and it was done by a Board Certified and well respected veterinary nutritionist. She also has formulated a diet for my dog Teddy using brown rice.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by jrsygal37

That is good to know abuot the brown rice. I thought it would be healthier. I'll have to use white rice now. Thanks for the heads up.

Brown rice is fine to use in dogs. I've been using brown rice for almost all of Barney's 11 years and now that he has had pancreatitis twice from Wellness dog food which was about 22% fat-in-a-can, his vet nutritionist still recommends brown rice on the diet she designed for him. She says I can do white as well, or even 50/50. Barney also can substitute his rice for other things like pasta, bread, white potatoes, etc.... He is not permitted to have sweet potatoes with his history.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by Sweet Apple

feedback (?) a good pun, whether intentional or not lol... I will talk w/Dr. R, instead of going to chicken and rice...Perhaps she will refer me to the nutrionist at A&M....I guess, in my mind, they would have to do a scope (or worse exploratory surgery) or something, to determine what, exactly, was/is her issue, but if she's not having syptoms, I guess nothing would show? Btw, I do have her on plain organic yogurt (w/no additives, whatsoever...it's Kalona) and have, for the past 6 days, w/no symptoms, whatsoever...My thinking is this is putting back the good bacteria, in her gut, that the anti-biotics killed...I've been watching her stools, like a hawk, and they all look great (if you can call a stool great )

Thanks, everyone for the input...I'm not a democrat, but I do believe we need a village to raise these yorkies

Probiotics are stronger (contain more good bacteria) than yogurt, and will work quicker to restore the normal flora in the gut... good to use also if a dog can't tolerate dairy....

[kjc]

Originally Posted by 107barney

Barney has been eating brown rice and chicken his whole life, never getting sick except for two acute attacks of pancreatitis due to eating Wellness brand dog canned dog food (didn't make the link until the second episode 5 years later

Anyway, since the two attacks, Barney's fat content was lowered. His diet was formulated with brown rice and it was done by a Board Certified and well respected veterinary nutritionist. She also has formulated a diet for my dog Teddy using brown rice.

Originally Posted by 107barney

Brown rice is fine to use in dogs. I've been using brown rice for almost all of Barney's 11 years and now that he has had pancreatitis twice from Wellness dog food which was about 22% fat-in-a-can, his vet nutritionist still recommends brown rice on the diet she designed for him. She says I can do white as well, or even 50/50. Barney also can substitute his rice for other things like pasta, bread, white potatoes, etc.... He is not permitted to have sweet potatoes with his history.

Key word in my post is 'bland'. Brown rice is never bland and I wouldn't recommend it to any dog just coming off I/D or recuperating from an unknown intestinal issue. It won't kill a dog, but there are gentler, kinder foods they can eat that will be easier on their system. Brown rice contains the hull, where white rice is de-hulled during processing.

Your nutritionist formulated your dogs diets knowing their history and any food issues they have... completely different scenario.

[ladyjane]

I personally would not recommend anything for a dog just coming off of I/D for an unknown intestinal problem. I don't believe it is appropriate for anyone to do that...but of course, I suppose I am stuck in the rut from nursing where I was trained not to prescribe diet and/or meds.

I realize that 107barney can speak for herself, but I just have to ask: When did she recommend anything for this pup? I believe she is encouraging a vet's advice...perhaps a nutritionist?

She merely said that her pup has eaten brown rice that was suggested by her nutritionist. She did not suggest that any dog eat it. She also was merely saying that brown rice is not generally contraindicated in dogs.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I personally would not recommend anything for a dog just coming off of I/D for an unknown intestinal problem. I don't believe it is appropriate for anyone to do that...but of course, I suppose I am stuck in the rut from nursing where I was trained not to prescribe diet and/or meds.

I realize that 107barney can speak for herself, but I just have to ask: When did she recommend anything for this pup? I believe she is encouraging a vet's advice...perhaps a nutritionist?
She merely said that her pup has eaten brown rice that was suggested by her nutritionist. She did not suggest that any dog eat it. She also was merely saying that brown rice is not generally contraindicated in dogs.

Originally Posted by 107barney

Brown rice is fine to use in dogs.

Sorry, did not intend to appear to be attacking 107Barney. The only reason I even posted in this thread is bc I've read numerous other threads where many owners think it's better to use brown rice instead of white rice when their vets are prescribing "chicken and rice", and it's not an acceptable substitution in those situations. When a nutritionist prescribes brown rice in a diet, I'm fine with that.

I also felt it was important to state the ratios (as the OP was asking about originally), bc many people add stuff to their dog's food, or want to, and adding different things is good to do to keep a picky eater interested in eating the same dog food everyday, or when feeding pups that seem to get bored with their regular diets. I am not saying it's okay to add just anything to a dog's diet, either.

As I had done research on home cooking for mine, I felt compelled to share what I have learned. As the OP had already stated she would consult her vet or a nutritionist, I gave her that info, but also reiterated that in her specific situation concerning her dog, it would be best to seek the advice of the professionals when making decisions on what to feed her pup, bc of the pup's recent digestive problems (as you, Ellie May, and 107barney had also previously suggested).

[ladyjane]

Well, I simply do not provide information that I don't feel is appropriate to give whether asked for or not.
That's just me.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by kjc

Sorry, did not intend to appear to be attacking 107Barney. The only reason I even posted in this thread is bc I've read numerous other threads where many owners think it's better to use brown rice instead of white rice when their vets are prescribing "chicken and rice", and it's not an acceptable substitution in those situations. When a nutritionist prescribes brown rice in a diet, I'm fine with that.

I also felt it was important to state the ratios (as the OP was asking about originally), bc many people add stuff to their dog's food, or want to, and adding different things is good to do to keep a picky eater interested in eating the same dog food everyday, or when feeding pups that seem to get bored with their regular diets. I am not saying it's okay to add just anything to a dog's diet, either.

As I had done research on home cooking for mine, I felt compelled to share what I have learned. As the OP had already stated she would consult her vet or a nutritionist, I gave her that info, but also reiterated that in her specific situation concerning her dog, it would be best to seek the advice of the professionals when making decisions on what to feed her pup, bc of the pup's recent digestive problems (as you, Ellie May, and 107barney had also previously suggested).

Actually, that's not exactly true so I want to make myself clear.

I stated in post #3
"Home cooked meals are formulated specifically for each dog. Brown rice is usually not recommended in dogs with digestive issues, although Barney ate brown rice and was fine."

And then in post #22
"Brown rice is fine to use in dogs"


Post #3 was in response to the OP who was looking for suggestions around the use of a bland diet involving chicken and wondered in brown rice should be used. I stated what I did in post #3 because IT IS TRUE that "Brown rice is not usually recommended in dogs with digestive issues." Why did I say that? Because the average primary care vet will prescribe a diet of chicken and white rice for dogs with digestive upset based on their training which in this country averages 30 hours of nutrition. They do this because within a couple of weeks when the dog recovers from the diarrhea or other gastric upset (hopefully), the dog is placed back on its regular (and usually commercial) diet.

Post #22 was in response to KJC's post where she said
"Dogs with even minor digestive issues should never be fed brown rice. Normally, chicken and white rice (1:1) is prescribed as a bland diet (easily digested), and brown rice is very hard for a dog to digest. Good for people, not so good for doggies."

I responded with "brown rice is fine to use in dogs" for a couple of reasons.
First, I addressed the overly broad and incorrect statement that brown rice is very hard for a dog to digest and that it is not so good for dogs. I don't know where KJC bases this info on, or why, but it's not the opinion shared in general by my board certified veterinary nutritionist who has prescribed diets for all of my dogs - two eat brown rice - one has digestive problems and one does not.

Secondly, I responded that brown rice is fine to use in dogs because Jrsygirl37 in post #21 stated that she was now going to stop feeding her dogs brown rice (presumably based on KJC's statement that brown rice was not so good for dogs).

As for the ratio stuff, that is another topic that I did not even touch on. I can point to at least two vet nutritionists (board certified) who have been interviewed who will state that addition of food in the way you suggest to commercial food is not optimal. If people want to feed their dogs home cooked food, they are better off rotating meals (one meal commercial, one meal a balanced home cooked meal) as opposed to adding fresh food to kibble. Veggies sure they add nothing but fiber and water and a sense of fullness so IMO not affecting the kcal requirements of the dog and the overall diet but when you start cutting back on kibble and adding fresh food as a regular thing to do you are not optimally feeding and people should know that. Dr. Remillard (board certified veterinary nutritionist) stated in one of her interviews:

It is far better to mix two balanced diets in any combination than it is to attempt to balance a commercial diet while adding single table food items.


So not sure where you got your "ratios" from but I doubt a board certified veterinary nutritionist would agree with your statements. In fact, Dr. Remillard also has said:

“A well-designed diet (commercially made or homemade) should be properly formulated for the age, weight, body condition, activity level and medical history. It should also be easy to obtain or simple to make, and provide a nutritional margin of safety that allows for variety.”
~ Rebecca Remillard, DVM, Ph.D., Dipl. ACVN

My message is always the same: I think people need to see Board Certified Veterinary nutritionists when they are home cooking, and this is especially true for people who have had sick dogs in the past.