Lepto outbreak in MI

[Schooby]

My vet sent out a notice about this through facebook today.

[bellasmomok]

Originally Posted by lil fu fu girl

Unfortunately the organism is everywhere here in the US, mainly from the urinary shedding of organisms from infected animals. I do not just mean rats, but also cats who are carriers of the disease, and our family pups who have not been diagnosed, who remain asymptomatic, yet are highly infectious. The current vaccine holds the predominate 4 out of the 230 various serovars which have been identified. Out of these 230 serovars, 8 are known to cause disease in both dogs and cats. The first 4 are the most commonly acquired bacterial infection in dogs. They are:
Leptospira icterohaemorrhagiae, L. canicola, L. grippotyphosa, L. pomona, L. bratislava, L. automnalis, L. bataviae, L. hardjo, and L. grippotyphosa.

In 2004, Wyeth Pharmaceuticals came out with a multi-strain vaccine that accounts for the top 4 infectious serovars.

One of the main issues, is that not all pups who acquire the disease become symptomatic. In the 2007 Michigan study, 25% of the unvaccinated healthy dogs in a control group were found to have antibodies to Lepto. This indicates that at one point, the dogs were infected unknown to their owners.

Here is my problem. When we take our pups out to healthy areas to play, our front yard, the dog park, the mall area; we never really know what dog has urinated in those areas. In consideration that most dogs are left unvaccinated and untreated, then we have to acknowledge that they are still subject to organism shedding in their urine. So despite our best efforts to take our pups to "safe" places where we do not see any rats or wild animals; what about the other infected dogs?

A last thought to consider. Most of our pups will end up dying do to complications surrounding CIN, kidney failure. Lepto left unvaccinated and untreated will establish colonies within the kidney and liver and gradually, systematically, destroy the functionality of these two organs. So is the kidney failure do to old age, or is it do to Lepto bacterial infection?

So you're FOR vaccinating then? See that's what I struggle with....especially having a small dog who has already reacted to the vaccine once. I struggle with risking her life by vaccinating her, and even more so because it has to be given EVERY year, or basically risking her life taking her out to play. And I struggle with wanting her to be safe/healthy and wanting her to be a normal happy dog! And then, you have to ask yourself where to draw the line too...we can't be protected against everything, so should we really stay indoors and live in a bubble?? (just a rhetoric question, not suggesting anyone actually thinks that!! ) These are such horribly gray areas to me, I have a really hard time knowing what to do. I wish there were statistics out there like there are for humans...like x% of dogs who ride in vehicles unrestrained die, or y% of dogs who are unvaccinated against z die from contracting it. The safest thing is to use some sort of restraint device when your dog is in the car...you never know when you might have a collision. But how many of us restrain them every single time we put them in the car? I personally have a Snoozer console seat, but the only time I buckle Bella in is when I'll be on the highway, i.e. driving over 40mph. I know that's not the same thing...but it would be interesting to know the statistics on something like that so we could judge better what we're comfortable with. It's impossible to take every precaution....so where do I draw the line, ya know??

[lil fu fu girl]

Originally Posted by bellasmomok

So you're FOR vaccinating then? See that's what I struggle with....especially having a small dog who has already reacted to the vaccine once. I struggle with risking her life by vaccinating her, and even more so because it has to be given EVERY year, or basically risking her life taking her out to play. And I struggle with wanting her to be safe/healthy and wanting her to be a normal happy dog! And then, you have to ask yourself where to draw the line too...we can't be protected against everything, so should we really stay indoors and live in a bubble?? (just a rhetoric question, not suggesting anyone actually thinks that!! ) These are such horribly gray areas to me, I have a really hard time knowing what to do. I wish there were statistics out there like there are for humans...like x% of dogs who ride in vehicles unrestrained die, or y% of dogs who are unvaccinated against z die from contracting it. The safest thing is to use some sort of restraint device when your dog is in the car...you never know when you might have a collision. But how many of us restrain them every single time we put them in the car? I personally have a Snoozer console seat, but the only time I buckle Bella in is when I'll be on the highway, i.e. driving over 40mph. I know that's not the same thing...but it would be interesting to know the statistics on something like that so we could judge better what we're comfortable with. It's impossible to take every precaution....so where do I draw the line, ya know??

I understand completely! Am I really FOR vaccinations, no not really. In fact if you query some members here on YT, they would inform you that I am dead set against several of the human ones.

However, the deeper I delve into research in this area of Lepto bacterial infections, the more research I find connecting chronic illness among the elderly population of our animals, and a Lepto infection which has gone undiagnosed, unvaccinated, and unnoticed. Left untreated Lepto is cruel in its methods.

What do you do? That is the tough question, isn't it? I can only inform you as to what I know from my research, supply facts and documentation as to what the process of this disease is.

I personally, do give the shot. I medicate with steroids before hand, and stay 30-40 minutes after it.
My little girl is 4.5 pounds. She has Lymes, and the thought of her having kidney or liver complications compounded onto this disease through Lepto, frightens me.

I think everyone has to weigh the facts for their particular situation, and then do their best to protect their pups, no matter what that may be.
I understand your feelings, and empathize with you completely. Making a decision about this vaccine, either way, is not easy by any stretch of the imagination! It is surrounded by "What-ifs"!

[bellasmomok]

Originally Posted by lil fu fu girl

I understand completely! Am I really FOR vaccinations, no not really. In fact if you query some members here on YT, they would inform you that I am dead set against several of the human ones.

However, the deeper I delve into research in this area of Lepto bacterial infections, the more research I find connecting chronic illness among the elderly population of our animals, and a Lepto infection which has gone undiagnosed, unvaccinated, and unnoticed. Left untreated Lepto is cruel in its methods.

What do you do? That is the tough question, isn't it? I can only inform you as to what I know from my research, supply facts and documentation as to what the process of this disease is.

I personally, do give the shot. I medicate with steroids before hand, and stay 30-40 minutes after it.
My little girl is 4.5 pounds. She has Lymes, and the thought of her having kidney or liver complications compounded onto this disease through Lepto, frightens me.

I think everyone has to weigh the facts for their particular situation, and then do their best to protect their pups, no matter what that may be.
I understand your feelings, and empathize with you completely. Making a decision about this vaccine, either way, is not easy by any stretch of the imagination! It is surrounded by "What-ifs"!

I read an article today about the Lepto shot that sort of talked me out of it....again!

Leptospirosis

It has a lot of good points... I also read the AAHA recommendations, which are to only vaccinate toy dogs if they are considered high risk. I really think we'd be closer to moderate risk (if low risk meant never goes outside).

[smartpuppiepets]

This thread everyone should really take the time to read.
That is why i am bumping it !
XOXO

[snowie]

Question?
I was reading the symptoms of Lepto but they seem pretty quick.
How can it go undiagnosed? What would be the symptoms in a dog that has had it for a while be?

[Melcakes]

There are vaccinations for four strains of leptospirosis, but there are 9 strains of lepto. Also, these vaccinations are only good for about four months, so lepto vaccinations need to be planned accordingly (lepto is most common in the fall and spring). The lepto vaccine does have many side effects, which include anaphylactic shock. A lot of universities are no longer supporters of vaccinating for lepto. Also, the vaccines against lepto are not that effective in preventing the disease and it's believed may actually facilitate carrier states. Personally I have decided not to vaccinate. I watch for symptoms and try to keep myself familiar with the symptoms of lepto. It must be caught quickly to make treatment effective though.

It can go undiagnosed because the main symptoms are as simple as listless, not eating, urinating more frequently, and drinking more water. So, vet's may not know what to be exactly looking/testing for. Complete blood tests, fungal panels, and urinalysis can all come back completely normal when a dog is infected too! The most important thing is that if a dog is dehydrated (main symptom of lepto) one needs to get them started on IV therapy and get a lepto titer.

[lil fu fu girl]

Originally Posted by snowie

Question?
I was reading the symptoms of Lepto but they seem pretty quick.
How can it go undiagnosed? What would be the symptoms in a dog that has had it for a while be?

That is the problem with Lepto, many cases go undiagnosed as those who become infected are asymptomatic; or show no signs of infection or illness. Meanwhile, they are infectious and shed the organism through their urine: as this particular bacteria likes to establish footholds in both the kidneys and liver. The symptoms and signs of Lepto when they are displayed are fever , lethargy, nausea, anorexia.

Diagnosis is done through a blood serum test, or by culture growth taken from the blood, spinal fluid, urine, or specific tissues.

When animals become infected, the Lepto bacteria is found throughout the body; eyes, spleen, liver, kidney, and even the genital track. As the animals immune system begins to kick in and starts producing antibodies to the bacteria, most of the spirochetes are cleared away. However, within the kidneys and liver spirochetes have a unique protein-bound-defensive-mechanism which allows them to exist within these two organs, without being attacked by the antibodies, essentially making the infected a host.
As a result, animals that serve as reservoirs of host-adapted serovars can shed high concentrations of the organism in their urine without showing clinical evidence of disease. Thereby infecting others, continuing the cycle of the disease.

Vaccination does not 100% protect your pup from infection, but it allows the pups immune system to produce antibodies to fight infection when it does occur. These antibodies, last at latest research, around a year or less.

Leptospirosis is one of those distinct bacterial infections that survives in a range of environments. It survives within a complex organism such as an animal or human, it can survive in rivers and streams after being eliminated through a hosts urine, and in can survive in soil and on plant life.

In is an interesting bacteria, and researchers definitely have their hands full.
Hope this helps some......

[littlewhip]

Thank you for posting this, Im in mich and have not heard anything. again thank you, I will be passing this on to my freinds.

[lil fu fu girl]

Melcakes:

Also, the vaccines against lepto are not that effective in preventing the disease and it's believed may actually facilitate carrier states

I too, have read several blogs that have posted this information, but as of yet, I have not been able to identify any research literature from which this has been obtained: and quite honestly I am left questioning its validity as there is no clinical papertrail that I personally have found.

I know that the "The Handbook of Zoonoses" states that the Lepto vaccine is manufactured predominantly through bacterins grown on protein-supplemented media, which are then killed through chemical addition before vaccine creation.

My curiosity lies in how these dead-bacterins can then develop live colonies? If you have any doctoral theses or veterinarian clinical studies that you acquired during your research that you are willing to share , I would be grateful, as this enigma has hounded me for the last several months.
Thanks.....

[YubYub]

I'm curious. Have you asked your vet how many cases they've seen in the past year? I'd love to know a baseline number for a higher-risk area.