Anyone have advice on vaccine allergies?

[Ellie May]

OP:

I think somebody answered your question. It is a test to show how the liver is functioning. If it is not functioning properly, drug reactions are very possible.

Since the first two reactions were just some lethargy and bumps, that would not have been a good enough reason to skip reasons. Now there is a good enough reason if you and your vet choose to. I think in general people don't understand just how dangerous rabies is (or maybe it's just that they think it couldn't possibly happen to their animal). I know I was one of those people until recently when I where the point got acroos to me realllllllly clearly. The virus is not uncommon and not only is the pet's family at risk by skipping it, so is the vet staff. And that is not fair to them. There needs to be a very good reason to go without it. And it isn't just a bite that you have to be concerned with as LadyJane said. It can happen from just a cut in the skin. Or it can happen if the saliva touches mucous membranes. And I imagine direct comtact (animal to animal) would not be necessary. It's definitely nothing to mess around with.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by bribunny

Thanks for the advice. I will start researching as soon as possible. We just found out we are expecting #3 and I'm super sick.

Just wanted to clear a few things up though. My vet does not charge for visits just what get's done. With this rabies vaccine we payed only $10 and there was no charge for any treatment when she had the reaction. The vet is mostly an animal hospital, so I feel they are knowledgeable in her reactions. We have never spent a ton of money at the vet and so I cannot say they are there only to make money.

Also, we live outside the city limits but are very close to the city and we have wild animals in the yards constantly. Just last week, my neighbor had a bat in her garage, and another had 3 deer in her FENCED in back yard.

I took the chance of getting her vaccinated and my vet said her next appointment would either need to be when she gets spayed or in 3 years when the vaccine wears off.

But, now I wonder about spaying and putting her under with her being allergic!

Well first of all congrats on your new baby! You have a right to be concerned about spaying and what they will use. First off, it is a great precaution to have the pre op blood work done. Secondly, please test for the BATS. I'm so sorry I don't know how to post links, but a search on here will yield all the information.

Also LadyJane is very knowledgeable about the different types of sedation used and can help you out with y our research. If she doesn't post soon on your thread, send a private message to her.

Mardelin and Woogie Man are always willing to help and very knowledgeable too!

Once again congrats on your new baby! I'm sorry that I couldn't be more helpful with posting the links et al.

[YorkieSue]

I am NOT trying to scare you but you are sort of unnerving me!!! Please read about vaccinations and what they can cause and do to dogs. You missed my point, concerned lady!! I don't care where you take your dog, what kind of specialists you think can handle any problems...I am asking you, WHY WOULD YOU PUT ANY OF THAT POISON INTO YOUR DOG IF IT IS NOT NECESSARY? The rabies vaccine is something YOU MUST EDUCATE YOURSELF ABOUT--PLEASE. It matters not where you have it done. Your dog is already telling you that he is reacting...that would be enough for me. All any specialists can do is stop your dog from reacting to the poison that they are putting into his system. This will give you a false sense of health for your pup. The rabies vaccine is one of the most harsh, poisonous, allergy CAUSING, liver damaging toxins there is. I beg you to do some research on this so that you never vaccinate again. Your pup is not going to be around any dangerous rabies carrying animals and if you are not going to travel extensively then he doesn't need the vaccine. Also, there are SOME vets (usually the alternative vets like I use) who will write a legal document to your state stating that your pup cannot have that horrid vaccine because of the reaction it causes. Did you know that your 3 lb. dogs gets the same amt. of rabies solution/vaccine as a St. Bernard or horse or gorilla. They do NOT adjust the amt so you rlittle one is getting a massive dose of what he doesn't need. Please do not trust JUST YOUR VET--vets are in business to make money. They will convince you that vaccines are a must etc.

Now, having said that, I do believe that all dogs need the initial vaccines..but NEVER, EVER let a vet give your tiny dog a combo shot. And never, unless you live in the deep south, allow a leptosporosis vaccine. For little dogs this can kill. They will not tell you that If you want to contact me privately please do.

I am NOT TRYING TO SCARE BUT TO EDUCATE--HONEST. Some dogs need the rabies vaccination because they are in high danger situations...your dog is not, I don't beileve. I do not want the life span of your pup compromised because of unnecessary vaccines..If you like I will send you a couple of links to help you read about what you should know about, ok?? Bye now, Sue

[PrincessDiana]

Originally Posted by YorkieSue

I am NOT trying to scare you but you are sort of unnerving me!!! Please read about vaccinations and what they can cause and do to dogs. You missed my point, concerned lady!! I don't care where you take your dog, what kind of specialists you think can handle any problems...I am asking you, WHY WOULD YOU PUT ANY OF THAT POISON INTO YOUR DOG IF IT IS NOT NECESSARY? The rabies vaccine is something YOU MUST EDUCATE YOURSELF ABOUT--PLEASE. It matters not where you have it done. Your dog is already telling you that he is reacting...that would be enough for me. All any specialists can do is stop your dog from reacting to the poison that they are putting into his system. This will give you a false sense of health for your pup. The rabies vaccine is one of the most harsh, poisonous, allergy CAUSING, liver damaging toxins there is. I beg you to do some research on this so that you never vaccinate again. Your pup is not going to be around any dangerous rabies carrying animals and if you are not going to travel extensively then he doesn't need the vaccine. Also, there are SOME vets (usually the alternative vets like I use) who will write a legal document to your state stating that your pup cannot have that horrid vaccine because of the reaction it causes. Did you know that your 3 lb. dogs gets the same amt. of rabies solution/vaccine as a St. Bernard or horse or gorilla. They do NOT adjust the amt so you rlittle one is getting a massive dose of what he doesn't need. Please do not trust JUST YOUR VET--vets are in business to make money. They will convince you that vaccines are a must etc.

Now, having said that, I do believe that all dogs need the initial vaccines..but NEVER, EVER let a vet give your tiny dog a combo shot. And never, unless you live in the deep south, allow a leptosporosis vaccine. For little dogs this can kill. They will not tell you that If you want to contact me privately please do.

I am NOT TRYING TO SCARE BUT TO EDUCATE--HONEST. Some dogs need the rabies vaccination because they are in high danger situations...your dog is not, I don't beileve. I do not want the life span of your pup compromised because of unnecessary vaccines..If you like I will send you a couple of links to help you read about what you should know about, ok?? Bye now, Sue

I feel like YOU need to go back and read the previous posts because you have clearly missed HER point. There are a number of health, public safety, and LEGAL reasons why a dog should be vaccinated for rabies. I understand this should be taken on a case-by-case basis and evaluated by each pet owner which is what we are suggesting to this pet owner. However, again, posts like this REALLY irk me because the guidelines are there for a reason and there could be a serious health issue if everyone pet owner out there decided to not vaccinate for rabies (or anything really).

And I also wholeheartedly agree with the statement that ALL vets are ONLY in it for the money. It's a sad world when you go around distrusting information told to you by trained professionals. I absolutely agree with doing your own research and making your own decisions based on that research but there is no point in living your life believing everyone is out there to 'get you'.

[Ellie May]

Hmm, I did not see anywhere where LadyJane said to revaccinate this Yorkie for rabies. That is a vet's call. I think she was talking about the vaccine in general for otherwise mostly healthy dogs.

I'll say it's not so great when an owner decides they don't need to give this vaccine and then then the vet suspects rabies by the symptoms. The vet gets to deal with the animal (possibly involving techs who don't get rabies vaccines and are now putting their lives in danger) and they get to tell the owner that their animal needs to be euthanized for public safety and testing. Rabies could be as close as a bat that flies into your garage or rats by the nearby dumpster.

There is a reason that the same amount is given. It's not because vets like overdosing small dogs. And honestly, Ellie is sensitive so she gets monitored after rabies. Her vet spends enough time doing that that she isn't making much money on it at all. She has other motivators besides money...like my girl's safety. Rabies is a killed virus. There is no evidence that the vaccine lasts for life (unlke modified live viruses).

[gemy]

First as our OP posted there will be no more vaccinations for at least three years.

How-ever her next major decision is about spaying her female, and what is the best and safest practice to do this.

So the question is if Her DOG is allergic to VAccinations, what is the risk around the sedatives that are used when spay happens? Does the Risk increase because of allergic reactions to vaccines? Is there a predictive blood or other test that can be safely done ahead of time to determine sedative reactions?

Given this situation where can she look to inform herself on this issue?

[bribunny]

Originally Posted by YorkieSue

I am NOT trying to scare you but you are sort of unnerving me!!! Please read about vaccinations and what they can cause and do to dogs. You missed my point, concerned lady!! I don't care where you take your dog, what kind of specialists you think can handle any problems...I am asking you, WHY WOULD YOU PUT ANY OF THAT POISON INTO YOUR DOG IF IT IS NOT NECESSARY? The rabies vaccine is something YOU MUST EDUCATE YOURSELF ABOUT--PLEASE. It matters not where you have it done. Your dog is already telling you that he is reacting...that would be enough for me. All any specialists can do is stop your dog from reacting to the poison that they are putting into his system. This will give you a false sense of health for your pup. The rabies vaccine is one of the most harsh, poisonous, allergy CAUSING, liver damaging toxins there is. I beg you to do some research on this so that you never vaccinate again. Your pup is not going to be around any dangerous rabies carrying animals and if you are not going to travel extensively then he doesn't need the vaccine. Also, there are SOME vets (usually the alternative vets like I use) who will write a legal document to your state stating that your pup cannot have that horrid vaccine because of the reaction it causes. Did you know that your 3 lb. dogs gets the same amt. of rabies solution/vaccine as a St. Bernard or horse or gorilla. They do NOT adjust the amt so you rlittle one is getting a massive dose of what he doesn't need. Please do not trust JUST YOUR VET--vets are in business to make money. They will convince you that vaccines are a must etc.

Now, having said that, I do believe that all dogs need the initial vaccines..but NEVER, EVER let a vet give your tiny dog a combo shot. And never, unless you live in the deep south, allow a leptosporosis vaccine. For little dogs this can kill. They will not tell you that If you want to contact me privately please do.

I am NOT TRYING TO SCARE BUT TO EDUCATE--HONEST. Some dogs need the rabies vaccination because they are in high danger situations...your dog is not, I don't beileve. I do not want the life span of your pup compromised because of unnecessary vaccines..If you like I will send you a couple of links to help you read about what you should know about, ok?? Bye now, Sue

I did post that I had done additional research before the vaccine, and that I live in an area that does cause alarm. I already checked the guidelines in my state and they require that all animals be vaccinated for rabies. No exemptions. Yes, it is unfortunate. But, my reason for posting was to get information on how to handle this situation in the future. I understand you would prefer me not to vaccinate for rabies, but in this situation I did what I felt was right. No, I didn't expect this full reaction and now that has happened all I am doing is searching for help and answers. I will not completely forgo vaccines until I have done all research possible.

[bribunny]

Originally Posted by gemy

First as our OP posted there will be no more vaccinations for at least three years.

How-ever her next major decision is about spaying her female, and what is the best and safest practice to do this.

So the question is if Her DOG is allergic to VAccinations, what is the risk around the sedatives that are used when spay happens? Does the Risk increase because of allergic reactions to vaccines? Is there a predictive blood or other test that can be safely done ahead of time to determine sedative reactions?

Given this situation where can she look to inform herself on this issue?

Yes! Thank you. I will do enough research on the vaccine issue. Spaying is our next obstacle.

[Mitzis Mom]

Originally Posted by PrincessDiana

I am all FOR limiting the amount of medication that goes into my dogs' bodies but again, this is another case of misinformation.

Heartworms are DEADLY. Microfilariae, the microscopic larvae of heartworms are injected into the dog's bloodstream once they are bitten by an infected mosquito. There, they circulate and grow until they are carried into the heart and take up residence in the pulmonary artery, 4 to 5 months after infection. Most dogs show NO sign of infection until this stage. The two (and only) tests that are currently being used to detect heartworms, the blood antigen test and a microscopic screen of the blood for microfilariae are INFECTIVE until the worms are around 6 months into the infection. As you can see, at this point they are already living in the heart. This can cause all sorts of complications for the dog. Treatment of heartworms is both expensive, dangerous, and difficult for the dog. They are treated with an ARSENIC based drug that kills all the worms in the body. However, since the worms live in the pulmonary artery (the one that connects the lungs to the heart), lots of movement from the dog can cause the dead worms to spill into the lungs, killing the dog. Treatment takes months and the dog must remain kenneled until it tests negative for heartworms. It's not something I would ever miss with.

I honestly do not mean to argue but I SO agree with ladyjane about the disastrous results of the public not following preventative health guidelines. I have no qualms with hollistic medicine. In fact, we see a hollistic vet, limit vaccines, and feed prey-model raw) but the health recommendations are out there for a reason! I would just hate for an innocent reader to read something like this post, forgo all heartworm medication, and end up with a dead dog.

You are completely right about the heartworm desease and it's deadly consequenses BUT if the heartworm is detected early it is very easy to treat that's why a dog without prevention should be tested for heartworms every 4 to 6 months b/c that's the time the larvae need to grow into worms. For a dog to get bitten by a mosquito that carries the eggs there has to be a long list of circumstances just right and if the dog has a healthy immune system it will fight the infection off by itself.
For more information please go to the website I suggested.

[PrincessDiana]

Originally Posted by Mitzis Mom

You are completely right about the heartworm desease and it's deadly consequenses BUT if the heartworm is detected early it is very easy to treat that's why a dog without prevention should be tested for heartworms every 4 to 6 months b/c that's the time the larvae need to grow into worms. For a dog to get bitten by a mosquito that carries the eggs there has to be a long list of circumstances just right and if the dog has a healthy immune system it will fight the infection off by itself.
For more information please go to the website I suggested.

I don't mean to be rude but did you read my post at all? It takes 4-6 to months for the heartworms to be detected in a test, and at that point they are already in the heart. There IS NO early detection. Additionally, if I am reading correctly, you are saying that they should be tested every 4-6 months to see if any larvae have grown into worms. So are you saying that we should just take the chance and treat heartworms once the dog is already infected? As I posted before, the treatment for heartworms is quite intensive and not something I'd like to go through EVER. Why not be safe and prevent those larvae from EVER maturing? That's like telling a couple who is not ready to have a baby to just have sex, forgo birth control, and have an abortion every time they got pregnant. Obviously everyone's opinion on this will be different. I was just using this example to make a point.

Also, it absolutely does not take a long list of circumstances for heartworms to be detected and dogs have no ability to "fight off" the parasite by itself. My senior capstone class was in parasitology and my final project was over heartworms. My zoology professors were not veterinarians and had absolutely no monetary stake in this topic. I'll take real science over a website any day.

[Ellie May]

Imidicide therapy is not something I want Ellie to go through and Ivermectin therapy is not hte treatment of choice for the first stages of heartworm disease, so she will always be protected.

I don't know if there even is a solid answer out there about dogs reacting to vaccines being at more risk to react to other drugs (unless there is an underlying problem..like a liver issue). But if anybody finds a study about that, I'd like to read it. Ellie had a severe reaction to lepto and a very mild reaction to Panacur, but she does extremely well with anesthesia (iso).

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by YorkieSue

I am NOT trying to scare you but you are sort of unnerving me!!! Please read about vaccinations and what they can cause and do to dogs. You missed my point, concerned lady!! I don't care where you take your dog, what kind of specialists you think can handle any problems...I am asking you, WHY WOULD YOU PUT ANY OF THAT POISON INTO YOUR DOG IF IT IS NOT NECESSARY? The rabies vaccine is something YOU MUST EDUCATE YOURSELF ABOUT--PLEASE. It matters not where you have it done. Your dog is already telling you that he is reacting...that would be enough for me. All any specialists can do is stop your dog from reacting to the poison that they are putting into his system. This will give you a false sense of health for your pup. The rabies vaccine is one of the most harsh, poisonous, allergy CAUSING, liver damaging toxins there is. I beg you to do some research on this so that you never vaccinate again. Your pup is not going to be around any dangerous rabies carrying animals and if you are not going to travel extensively then he doesn't need the vaccine. Also, there are SOME vets (usually the alternative vets like I use) who will write a legal document to your state stating that your pup cannot have that horrid vaccine because of the reaction it causes. Did you know that your 3 lb. dogs gets the same amt. of rabies solution/vaccine as a St. Bernard or horse or gorilla. They do NOT adjust the amt so you rlittle one is getting a massive dose of what he doesn't need. Please do not trust JUST YOUR VET--vets are in business to make money. They will convince you that vaccines are a must etc.

Now, having said that, I do believe that all dogs need the initial vaccines..but NEVER, EVER let a vet give your tiny dog a combo shot. And never, unless you live in the deep south, allow a leptosporosis vaccine. For little dogs this can kill. They will not tell you that If you want to contact me privately please do.

I am NOT TRYING TO SCARE BUT TO EDUCATE--HONEST. Some dogs need the rabies vaccination because they are in high danger situations...your dog is not, I don't beileve. I do not want the life span of your pup compromised because of unnecessary vaccines..If you like I will send you a couple of links to help you read about what you should know about, ok?? Bye now, Sue

Excuse me, but you have NO idea where my dogs live or what they are exposed to.

And, imho, you are not as informed about rabies as you think you are.

Advising me to never vaccinate again? You are so out of line it is scary. I hope that people don't read your post and totally buy into it.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Mitzis Mom

You are completely right about the heartworm desease and it's deadly consequenses BUT if the heartworm is detected early it is very easy to treat that's why a dog without prevention should be tested for heartworms every 4 to 6 months b/c that's the time the larvae need to grow into worms. For a dog to get bitten by a mosquito that carries the eggs there has to be a long list of circumstances just right and if the dog has a healthy immune system it will fight the infection off by itself.
For more information please go to the website I suggested.

I need to start keeping stats of how many rescues we treat for heartworm disease.

As for dogs dying from heartworm preventatives, I seriously do not buy that. My dogs who have passed lived long, healthy lives and I have always used flea and heartworm preventatives.

I find it terribly sad that people tout things that really are not well researched.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by PrincessDiana

I feel like YOU need to go back and read the previous posts because you have clearly missed HER point. There are a number of health, public safety, and LEGAL reasons why a dog should be vaccinated for rabies. I understand this should be taken on a case-by-case basis and evaluated by each pet owner which is what we are suggesting to this pet owner. However, again, posts like this REALLY irk me because the guidelines are there for a reason and there could be a serious health issue if everyone pet owner out there decided to not vaccinate for rabies (or anything really).

And I also wholeheartedly agree with the statement that ALL vets are ONLY in it for the money. It's a sad world when you go around distrusting information told to you by trained professionals. I absolutely agree with doing your own research and making your own decisions based on that research but there is no point in living your life believing everyone is out there to 'get you'.

Exactly. I never said that the OP must vaccinate again. I actually said I probably would not; but to suggest that everyone cease vaccinations is just wrong.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by PrincessDiana

I don't mean to be rude but did you read my post at all? It takes 4-6 to months for the heartworms to be detected in a test, and at that point they are already in the heart. There IS NO early detection. Additionally, if I am reading correctly, you are saying that they should be tested every 4-6 months to see if any larvae have grown into worms. So are you saying that we should just take the chance and treat heartworms once the dog is already infected? As I posted before, the treatment for heartworms is quite intensive and not something I'd like to go through EVER. Why not be safe and prevent those larvae from EVER maturing? That's like telling a couple who is not ready to have a baby to just have sex, forgo birth control, and have an abortion every time they got pregnant. Obviously everyone's opinion on this will be different. I was just using this example to make a point.

Also, it absolutely does not take a long list of circumstances for heartworms to be detected and dogs have no ability to "fight off" the parasite by itself. My senior capstone class was in parasitology and my final project was over heartworms. My zoology professors were not veterinarians and had absolutely no monetary stake in this topic. I'll take real science over a website any day.