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Old 08-17-2010, 06:38 AM   #1
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Default Does she really need another booster?!

Piper is 22 weeks old now. So far she has had 3 DA2PPv (6wks, 9wks, 12 wks). Then she had DHPP, Rabies, and Kennel Cough at 20 weeks. Now they are calling me saying she needs another booster tomorrow (at almost 23 weeks).

Does she really need this? She weighed 3 pounds 2 ounces three weeks ago.
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Old 08-17-2010, 07:19 AM   #2
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Oh, and they want to give it tomorrow so I have limited time to decide.

Thanks so much!
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Old 08-17-2010, 09:24 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rik20101 View Post
Piper is 22 weeks old now. So far she has had 3 DA2PPv (6wks, 9wks, 12 wks). Then she had DHPP, Rabies, and Kennel Cough at 20 weeks. Now they are calling me saying she needs another booster tomorrow (at almost 23 weeks).

Does she really need this? She weighed 3 pounds 2 ounces three weeks ago.
Wow .....Piper has had a lot of vaccines for her young age.......The is no rush to get into the vet for additional vaccines. There is no time limit. The previous vaccines do not wear off, weaken or have to be done in a set time frame. The only reason the vets give vaccines in a "set" is because they are doing them at such a young age that the pup still has mom's natural immunity and it blocks the vaccine from forming immunity. They figure if they do three doses one of them will produce the antibodies they need for immunity.........At 6 weeks old only about 40%-50% of pups will produce the desired response, more than likely all the pup recieved was a stressed immune system and was put at risk for contracting parvo at the vets office.....

It's not a matter of the number of vaccines a pup get it's a matter of "when " the vaccine is done. If you give a pup one vaccine at the age of 16 weeks or older that would produce the exact same desired effect as doing the "set." in my OP, at this point if it where me I would not be going back for more vaccines at this point.....

This is from the experts concerning this issue....

"Multiple vaccinations with MLV vaccines are required at various ages only to ensure that one dose of the vaccine reaches the puppy's immune system without interference from passively acquired antibody. Two or more doses of killed vaccines (except rabies) and vectored vaccines are often required to induce an immune response, and both doses should be given at a time when the passively acquired antibody can no longer interfere. Thus, when puppies are first vaccinated at 16 weeks (or more) of age (an age when passively acquired antibodies generally don't cause interference), one does of an MLV vaccine, or two doses of a killed vaccine, are adequate to stimulate an immune response." (American Animal Hospital Association)

__________________________________________________ _____________

"We should not give vaccines two weeks apart. At the two week interval the immune system is at its peak response. Lots of non-specific inflammatory agents are stirred up. If we give another vaccine two weeks later we are more likely to get an adverse reaction and less likely to get a good immune response. Vaccines should be administered three or four weeks apart. An even longer interval will work just as well. IF A CLIENT IS LATE FOR A VACCINE IN THE INITIAL SERIES, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO START OVER."(Dr. B. Rogers DVM)

__________________________________________________ _______________


Also the vet used combo vaccines on Piper.......This is not recommended by all the experts. It greatly increases the risks for adverse reactions, not only because of the numerous components in the vaccine but the smaller the pup the greater the risk for reactions. Combo's also elicit a heavy toll on the immune system in trying to process all the components in the vaccine. If there where a reaction they would not know which component is the cause. The combination of viruses will tend to compete with each other and it will/can produce a lower level of antibodies. I would seriously reconsider allowing a vet use these types of vaccines.....

"Giving combo vaccines (multi-valiant, polyvalent) and/or several shots at once increases the risk of adverse reactions as well as the risk that the vaccines will interfere with each other, resulting in neutralization or negation". (American Animal Hospital Association)
__________________________________________________ _______________

Small dog alert! Small dogs are more likely to experience adverse reactions, and shots containing multiple vaccines are more likely to cause adverse reactions according to renowned pet vaccine expert Dr. Jean Dodds.
__________________________________________________ _____________

Giving combo vaccines (multi-valiant, polyvalent) and/or several shots at once increases the risk of adverse reactions as well as the risk that the vaccines will interfere with each other, resulting in neutralization or negation. (American Animal Hospital Association)
__________________________________________________ ___________

I just wanted to mention so you'll be better prepared for later. I see the vet also gave several different vaccines on the same day. This should never be done. One per visit and spaced 3-4 weeks apart. This cuts down on reactions and complications. It might help if you use Dr. Dodds schedule for a reference .....

Vaccination Schedule Recommendations For Dogs

You'll note that there is no need for additional vaccines after one year, and kennel cough is generally not needed for a pet, it's equivalent to the pup catching a cold.. It is a very mild a n self limiting illness for the most part.....

If you want to read up on vaccines here are some helpful places to start...

The Rabies Vaccine for Dogs: Side Effects and Precautions You Can Take

Truth4Dogs

Puppy Shots

Canine Vaccination News

Canine Vaccines and Vaccination | Dog Vaccination Schedule

Sorry this is so long but it is important.....I hope this helps and good luck...P.S. you might want to consider looking around for a vet who is doing the newer vaccine protocol of just doing the "core" vaccines.......
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:51 AM   #4
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Thank you!!! This is exactly what I was thinking in the first place. I didn't get Piper until she was 15 weeks old so as you can see, I held off quite a while before I got her other shots done.

So, she is good until one year then?

Thanks again!!!!
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Old 08-17-2010, 12:25 PM   #5
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Sounds like too much to me....

I like to follow along these lines: DHPP @ 8 weeks, 12 weeks and 14-16 weeks. Then rabies whenever required by law. That was what Jackson got. Then he got DHPP again at a little over 1 year of age, followed by rabies a few weeks later.

I like Dr. Jean Dodds vaccine protocol.
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Old 08-17-2010, 12:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rik20101 View Post
Piper is 22 weeks old now. So far she has had 3 DA2PPv (6wks, 9wks, 12 wks). Then she had DHPP, Rabies, and Kennel Cough at 20 weeks. Now they are calling me saying she needs another booster tomorrow (at almost 23 weeks).

Does she really need this? She weighed 3 pounds 2 ounces three weeks ago.
Well hold on....what are they saying, exactly, that needs the booster? Bc if you got her the injectable Kennel Cough - that needs 2 doses, about 4wks apart.

While it appears she is fine on DHPP and Rabies, she may not be for Kennel Cough. That said, Kennel Cough is not a core vaccine - so maybe you changed your mind about boosting it?
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Old 08-17-2010, 12:34 PM   #7
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Well hold on....what are they saying, exactly, that needs the booster? Bc if you got her the injectable Kennel Cough - that needs 2 doses, about 4wks apart.

While it appears she is fine on DHPP and Rabies, she may not be for Kennel Cough. That said, Kennel Cough is not a core vaccine - so maybe you changed your mind about boosting it?
"They" say she needs another combination shot to be sure she is protected against parvo and distemper. PLUS, I am a little pissed she got the combo that included the flu strain.

She got the nasal kennel cough and to be honest I don't want to continue that route. She is never going to be boarded or shipped or any other reason to need that.
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Old 08-17-2010, 12:39 PM   #8
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"They" say she needs another combination shot to be sure she is protected against parvo and distemper. PLUS, I am a little pissed she got the combo that included the flu strain.

She got the nasal kennel cough and to be honest I don't want to continue that route. She is never going to be boarded or shipped or any other reason to need that.
Weird . She's had all she needs for DHPP (as a puppy).

We don't get kennel cough either since we don't groom or board our kiddos. Well, we groom at home, I should say .

So from here, in a year's time (to answer your other question), she'll need her 1-yr boosters (DHP, Rabies). Rabies interval goes by state law. And as far as DHP (etc), those have a few schools of thought. I'm in the school of Dr. Dodds and Dr. Schultz and Dr. Rogers (minimum necessary vaccines).
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Old 08-17-2010, 12:56 PM   #9
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Well, that solves it then! Thanks!!!
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Old 08-17-2010, 01:41 PM   #10
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Hmm, what flu strain did she get?

Since she was vaccinated at 6, 9, and 12 weeks and then again at 20, there could be problems with that. They need to be given 2-4 weeks apart until at least 16 or so weeks. So the fact that she was stopped at 12 and then booster 8 weeks later...could be a concern. She is most likely covered though. Why not just titer to make sure?

It's best to get this worked out with your vet now because they can refuse to hospitalize her (for spay, etc.) if you don't vaccinate exactly how they want you to. That would be a good reason to switch vets, but it's best to sort it all out in case an emergency comes up.

ETA: Unless it was recombinant distempter and a high titer parvo...then it would be yet another story.
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Old 08-17-2010, 02:05 PM   #11
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I will call them tomorrow and find out the details. The woman I talked to today is not one of my favorites. She is such a snotty woman....ugh! I was planning on doing her spay in the next 4-6 weeks so I need to know where they stand.

See, my main problem is that I do not vaccinate myself or my kids so all of these shots for a 3 pound dog seem so asinine to me. She has had 4 different Parvo shots already and that is my main concern. I want her healthy but I also don't want to pup her full of the crap they shove in vaccines.
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Old 08-17-2010, 02:11 PM   #12
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Totally understand.
With the exception of rabies, my girl had her last vaccine in '07 at age 6ish.

The timing on the ones given just was not good. Since not all dogs respond at 12 weeks to vaccines, those ones almost have to be taking out of the equation because it has been too long (in between 12 and 20 weeks). One shot alone at 20 weeks could be enough, but most vets would want to do another one 2-4 weeks later to make sure. If not, then a titer would be highly recommended. If they would have only given one at 16 weeks, you wouldn't have to deal with this now.
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Old 08-17-2010, 02:13 PM   #13
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Totally understand.
With the exception of rabies, my girl had her last vaccine in '07 at age 6ish.

The timing on the ones given just was not good. Since not all dogs respond at 12 weeks to vaccines, those ones almost have to be taking out of the equation because it has been too long (in between 12 and 20 weeks). One shot alone at 20 weeks could be enough, but most vets would want to do another one 2-4 weeks later to make sure. If not, then a titer would be highly recommended. If they would have only given one at 16 weeks, you wouldn't have to deal with this now.
See, and I took her records to them at 15 1/2 weeks and asked when they would need to see her again. The tech said not for another 2-3 weeks. Dang it. Okay, so, should I go get her one booster now and then follow my gut from here on out?
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Old 08-17-2010, 02:30 PM   #14
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I wouldn't say that. Would you not be comfortable titering? At least it's some indication of what's going on. Since she did have one at 20 weeks and was overvaccinated before that, I personally wouldn't be in a huge hurry to give her more.
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Old 08-17-2010, 02:47 PM   #15
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Thanks for everything Crystal!
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