ANOTHER food question... MVD & RAW

[ArmaniMan]

Again, my dogs have MVD (Liver Issue) Asymptomatic... I am seriously considering having consult with a nutritionist and homecooking but havent had a chance yet... I have a terrible time finding a food my dogs will eat, they pick and pick at the kibble but dont really eat it like they like it or anything and I have to add things (cottage cheese, green beans, sweet potato, rice, oatmeal, etc.) to it to get them to eat enough.

I was in the pet store the other day getting cat food and started talking to the lady about my dogs "issues"... she runs an all natural pet food store and is very knowledgeable, basically a non certified nutritionist.

She mentioned RAW to me and I said OH NO! it has way too much protein... she laughed and showed me the bag (Nature's Variety Medallions) and its only 13% protein She said most people think that and dont understand that its not really high in protein. She seemed to think this is the way I should consider going because its low protein, good for picky eaters, and has a lot of moisture to prevent urinary problems (one has had some urinary issues).

She gave me this sample bag of it... I defrosted one last night and gave them each a half of it this morning and they LOVED it... I have seriously never seen them eat like that before.

I have a vet appointment today and am going to mention it and see what they say... but was wondering if anyone with a dog with liver issues has ever fed raw and how it went?

[Ellie May]

There are some that think it's okay, and it's just another one of those things. If you are comfortable, go for it.

That said, liver compromised dogs tend to have compromised immune systems. So it is more of a risk to give the bacteria. Doesn't mean your pups do, but it's a concern. The type of protein is important and the premade raw diets are opposite of what is usually recommended although most with MVD do just fine on whatever meat is given.

But it is not 13%. That has to be converted to dry matter basis (remove the water content to compare to kibble). When that is done, it is more like 42% protein.

[ArmaniMan]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

There are some that think it's okay, and it's just another one of those things. If you are comfortable, go for it.

That said, liver compromised dogs tend to have compromised immune systems. So it is more of a risk to give the bacteria. Doesn't mean your pups do, but it's a concern. The type of protein is important and the premade raw diets are opposite of what is usually recommended although most with MVD do just fine on whatever meat is given.

But it is not 13%. That has to be converted to dry matter basis (remove the water content to compare to kibble). When that is done, it is more like 42% protein.

Im not really comfortable with it at all, It was just so nice to see them actually EAT something and not pick at it like it was the most disgusting thing they ever saw. Yes, sounds dramatic but that is literally how they eat every day,

The samples she gave me were chicken and thats what they have been eating in kibble as well... the goal is for them to eat chicken, turkey, or fish only (not salmon)... Im not comfortable putting them on a vegetarian diet, they are very young and not really "sick" at this point so I feel having no meat in their diet will do more harm then good in the long run.

The thing that really concerned me was the bacteria in the food and now Im concerned about the protein level... if its as high as 42% thats not good.

Why is this food thing so difficult... it was easier with my first dog, we just dumped ONE in her dish and didnt know better... sometimes ignorance truly is bliss.... okay, so not really but still......grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

okay /vent.... thanks for the response!

[107barney]

Here is my 2 cents. I've been down this road with MVD and diets and guessing on foods and trying "suggestions" of various vets, lay people, and even petstore personnel. I've done every diet on the planet practically from commerical Rx diets to raw and the best thing I ever did for myself, and for my MVD dog, was talk to the vet nutritionist. Her blood work at this time at age almost 10 shows an UNCOMPROMISED liver. If you didn't know, you'd never know. My only regret is not finding her sooner and listening to regular vets with little experience or breed specific knowledge.

Also - a vegetarian option is not harmful to the dog if formulated by a vet nutritionist and consists of natural carbohydrate and protein sources and balanced. My dog is thriving where she failed on meat so it really depends on each dog.

BTW - The vet nutritionist is not adverse to meat based diets for MVD dogs - in fact I know of a dog that had bile acids postprandial over 90 that just did a consult with her, and that dog is now on a chicken and rice based diet.

[Ringo1]

I keep Lucy on a lower protein Wellness dry - which she will NOT touch unless I put a spoonful of canned food on top. It worries me because I feed her the lower protein food and then I add a spoonful of lamb, turkey, or fish.

I also put carrots on there, green beans . . . sometimes her poop is almost orange from the carrots and that can't be good either.

She absolutely will not eat it dry. So far, her numbers are still good and no symptoms but still . . . . it's a constant worry as to what food to feed her.

[ArmaniMan]

Originally Posted by Ringo1

I keep Lucy on a lower protein Wellness dry - which she will NOT touch unless I put a spoonful of canned food on top. It worries me because I feed her the lower protein food and then I add a spoonful of lamb, turkey, or fish.

I also put carrots on there, green beans . . . sometimes her poop is almost orange from the carrots and that can't be good either.

She absolutely will not eat it dry. So far, her numbers are still good and no symptoms but still . . . . it's a constant worry as to what food to feed her.

actually the vet recommended this today... adding a little bit of canned food or giving only canned food... I picked up a couple of different cans on the way home and gave them some wellness tonight and they LOVED it....

Now I have to try and figure out the protein percentage

[kalina82]

Morgan has asymptomatic MVD as well and she has been on a RAW diet and a kibble diet with no problems. She ate NV raw for a long time and she loved it. Right now she's eating Acana. I've been told so many things, its hard to know what to do. Since i worked in the veterinary field i was told not to feed raw, but i did my own research and talked to some people who feel its ok to feed raw with a liver compromised dog. They say that its easier for dogs to digest the raw even with its high protein count because its a natural diet for them. its not processed or cooked.

Morgan has had 3 bile acids done (these numbers may not be exact but its close)
1st: 45 & 65
2nd: 67 & 66
3rd: 8 & 70

the first and second were done when she was on a higher protein diet and RAW. the 3rd was done just a few weeks ago and she has been eating kibble (wellness small breed and innova small bite) for maybe a year. So not too sure what to make of it.

[kalina82]

i hate feeding canned because its more expensive and its messy/smelly.

With the dry food, morgan usually won't eat it if i just take it out of the bag and pour it in a bowl unless she is really hungry. what i do it drizzle a little coconut oil on the top of it with her supplements mixed in. the coconut oil makes all the difference. she loves it and will eat immediately....most of the time...

[ArmaniMan]

Originally Posted by kalina82

i hate feeding canned because its more expensive and its messy/smelly.

With the dry food, morgan usually won't eat it if i just take it out of the bag and pour it in a bowl unless she is really hungry. what i do it drizzle a little coconut oil on the top of it with her supplements mixed in. the coconut oil makes all the difference. she loves it and will eat immediately....most of the time...

This is why I was so reluctant to feed canned all along, I really dont like it... Im thinking now of just trying a little scoop on the kibble tomorrow and seeing how that works.

Thanks for all your responses they were very helpful!

[Ringo1]

I just totally scared myself this evening. I put a little canned Beef on Ringo's dry food and lamb on Lucy's. Tonight, without thinking, I spooned out some canned beef for both. It's been one of those days.

Lucy ate it and I thought . . well, she'll be ok. She came upstairs later and I swear was acting totally weird. Her eyes were staring straight ahead and her back legs wobbly . . . or so I thought.

I brought her downstairs; she grabbed up a toy and started running with it and playing with my Westie. Seems fine.

Was my fearful imagination playing tricks on me do you think?

[ArmaniMan]

Originally Posted by Ringo1

I just totally scared myself this evening. I put a little canned Beef on Ringo's dry food and lamb on Lucy's. Tonight, without thinking, I spooned out some canned beef for both. It's been one of those days.

Lucy ate it and I thought . . well, she'll be ok. She came upstairs later and I swear was acting totally weird. Her eyes were staring straight ahead and her back legs wobbly . . . or so I thought.

I brought her downstairs; she grabbed up a toy and started running with it and playing with my Westie. Seems fine.

Was my fearful imagination playing tricks on me do you think?

hopefully so... I find myself always looking for symptoms also.

[manolos mom]

We feed Manolo a vegetarian diet. He can also eat certain types of Protein, like fish and egg whites.

[Ringo1]

Originally Posted by ArmaniMan

hopefully so... I find myself always looking for symptoms also.

Isn't that the truth. She is playing like crazy so I think it was me . . looking for symptoms as you said.

Well, anyway, no more beef for Lucy.

[LuvMySissy]

I was blessed to see a presentation this weekend by one of the Nature's Variety Board members. She stressed their quality control process, stating all their food is manufactured in the US, and every single batch is tested for three days straight for E-coli and salmonella before it ever gets packaged and goes out for distribution.

And, if you add probiotics to the diet, they further help keep the gut balanced.

If you are more comfortable with kibble, please check out Canine Caviar. It is a kibble that is considered a raw as it is only cooked for 6 seconds. Protein levels are not high and you can use a rotation diet as well.

[ArmaniMan]

Interesting, never heard of Canine Caviar, but there is one that is only 18% protein I am going to see if I can find it somewhere, I hate to order a big bag and my dogs not like it