I think I know how Prince may have gotten CT...

[lpham]

Originally Posted by dwerten

size of the tube as you need to ask this whenever going under anesthesia as some vets do not carry all the small tubes and why it is important to make sure your vet or specialists deals with small breed dogs as if they work mostly with large breed they may not have all the sizes I know there are cat tubes but there are even smaller tubes used for ferrets

i just got my yorkie 2 wks ago and she is a teacup size so she won't be any heavier than probably 4 lbs. when i took her to the vet, the first thing i asked since i knew yorkies are prone to CT was what type of anesthesia they use and what the process entailed of putting a pet under.

i specified that i was looking for a vet who uses isoflurane since its safest for dogs this small and she did use that. she also said that she would have to intubate when they go under (when they insert the tube through the trachea) which i immediately asked if it was necessary since its so risky but she did say that she had tubes of all sizes including sizes that are used on kittens smaller than my puppy which only makes me imagine how tiny they are since my puppy is barely 2 lbs. hope this helps and i'm so sorry about your little guy!

there are small tubes out there and the right anesthesia!

[Princes mom]

This is a post from another site about CT and dental cleaning...


To: CollapsingTrachea@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 4:06 PM
Subject: [CollapsingTrachea] New member introduction



Hello, I am a new member and just wanted to introduce myself and my
yorkie, Pumpkin, who is 11 yrs old, and who I've known always had a
collapsing trachea, but it never seemed to really be a problem until
last week, when she went in for what I thought would be a routine
dental cleaning and to have some loose and fractured teeth removed.
Turns out the anesthesia and endotracheal tube seems to have exacerbated
her collapsing trachea, and for 1.5 days, she could barely breathe and
I kept thinking I was going to lose her. During this time I rushed
her back to the vet, where they sedated her, put her on oxygen, started
her on steroids, antibiotics, and bronchial dilators, as well as took
x-rays. Apparently her collapsing trachea is pretty much along the entire length of her trachea, both neck and chest region.

The good news is that after 1.5 days of this very labored and difficult
breathing, she started to breath easier, and has been slowly improving
since then. We are tapering her off the steroids at this time.

I don't know if we'll ever get back to where she was before the dental
procedure, and I know it was the right thing to do (and the vets tell
me in treating collapsing trachea dental health is important), but I
still feel somewhat guilty about taking her in (although she had been
under anesthesia before with no problems).

In any case, she does seem to be improving, and I joined this list
to try to find out what works and doesn't work for people. I want to
be better prepared as she gets older and the collapsing trachea no
doubt gets worse.

Have any people on this list opted for surgical procedures, like stents?

Thanks,

[dwerten]

wow that is sad

yeah went to a meetup with a bunch of yorkie owners and many got their dogs teeth cleaned anesthesia free as one girl in our group her uncle is a dentist and felt it was ok to do it this way.

I think if my dog had health problems like ct or heart i would do anesthesia free cleanings as every one raved about how good there dogs were and the person told them if there was a loose tooth etc and to check with vet etc.

I do the dental cleanings with a dentist but i am going to also look at anesthesia free as well after hearing so many good reviews

It is always so sad when we try to do the right thing and something goes wrong

[Princes mom]

Originally Posted by dwerten

wow that is sad

yeah went to a meetup with a bunch of yorkie owners and many got their dogs teeth cleaned anesthesia free as one girl in our group her uncle is a dentist and felt it was ok to do it this way.

I think if my dog had health problems like ct or heart i would do anesthesia free cleanings as every one raved about how good there dogs were and the person told them if there was a loose tooth etc and to check with vet etc.

I do the dental cleanings with a dentist but i am going to also look at anesthesia free as well after hearing so many good reviews

It is always so sad when we try to do the right thing and something goes wrong

Your right...it is very sad.
I've heard of anesthesia-free cleaning, but it isn't practiced a lot here. I found one vet who does it, but what told that is usually isn't done on "high strung" small dogs.
A lot of vets do it in California; I think the doctor who started it is from there. I feel as though we're between a rock and a hard place.

[MOMOF5]

I had Charlee's teeth cleaned last year and now am scared to have it done again. She has trachea problems now and didn't before her teerh cleaning. She barely weighs 4 lbs. She can not even carry a toy without snorting. I have to rub her throat gently to ease it. It also happens when she plays or gets excited!! I'm scared to even have the other babies done!

[Princes mom]

Originally Posted by MOMOF5

I had Charlee's teeth cleaned last year and now am scared to have it done again. She has trachea problems now and didn't before her teerh cleaning. She barely weighs 4 lbs. She can not even carry a toy without snorting. I have to rub her throat gently to ease it. It also happens when she plays or gets excited!! I'm scared to even have the other babies done!

I have had two vets refuse to clean Prince's teeth because of the trachea issue. They were afraid he would not make it through the procedure.
What types of meds is Charlee on? Prince wheezes most of the time, but he does have some good days. Nights are difficult for him, but his daily medication really helps.
Oh, Prince just sent Charlee a kiss!

[Princes mom]

Anesthesia Free Teeth Cleaning for Dogs: What You Need to Know

[Princes mom]

Atlanta Veterinary Dental Specialist>Georgia Veterinary Dental Services

I just called this vet, and was told that they do a lot of dental cleaning for small bred dogs, mostly poodles and yorkies, with CT. The receptionist said that it was safe and that no dog has died during her 8 years there from the procedure. (Of course she would say that.)
I read all of the vet's info, and he sounds amazing, but I don't know. I asked her about anesthesia-free cleaning and she said it was a waste of money because it is impossible to clean under the gums where the problems usually begin, without anesthesia.
For the x rays and procedure the cost starts at $650.00.
This doctor has two offices in FL and one in Alpharetta, GA.
What do you think? Has anyone used him before?

[dwerten]

this is a good one is this near you?

Houndstooth Dental, Dog Teeth Cleaning, Cat Teeth Cleaning

they just did these at our meet up for alot of dogs and they did great. Jodi luvmysissy was really impressed as she sat outside the door and did not hear a peep out of 5 dogs.

here is a video on youtube

YouTube - Dog Teeth Cleaning without Anesthesia

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Princes mom

Atlanta Veterinary Dental Specialist>Georgia Veterinary Dental Services

I just called this vet, and was told that they do a lot of dental cleaning for small bred dogs, mostly poodles and yorkies, with CT. The receptionist said that it was safe and that no dog has died during her 8 years there from the procedure. (Of course she would say that.)
I read all of the vet's info, and he sounds amazing, but I don't know. I asked her about anesthesia-free cleaning and she said it was a waste of money because it is impossible to clean under the gums where the problems usually begin, without anesthesia.
For the x rays and procedure the cost starts at $650.00.
This doctor has two offices in FL and one in Alpharetta, GA.
What do you think? Has anyone used him before?

he looks like a board certified dentist too me but i would ask that question so you know he passed the boards. I prefer people who specialize in things. I go to this one in california - Dogandcatdentist.com - Veterinary Dentistry in Los Angeles but mine do not have ct

[Princes mom]

Dwerten, thank you for that link. The info about CT and the cleaning was very interesting!! We're in GA, but I'm willing to travel.

[Princes mom]

I got this email back from a vet who specializes in canine dentistry.

Hello,

I am sorry to hear of your dog's condition, however, a collapsing trachea is typically not a reason to avoid general anesthesia. In fact, with his condition, general anesthesia would be the safest since he would have a breathing tube placed during the procedure. As for anesthesia free dental cleanings, I do not do that nor do I recommend the procedure. I will attach the Veterinary Dental College's position statement, so you can read some of the reasons it is not recommended and some might consider it malpractice. Dental health is of great importance, so I hope your fears of anesthesia will not stop you from proper dental care. My technichian, Amy, would be glad to go over our protocol if you decide to use our services. You can call to discuss any questions or concerns. I hope this helps.

Angela Mees, DVM




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To: the2thvet@bellsouth.net
Sent: Tue, May 18, 2010 7:35:56 AM


Comments/Questions: I have a six year old, 5.5 pound male yorkie who has collapsing trachea. He has had this condition for a little over a year. I am interested in information regarding anesthesia free dental cleaning for him. Because of his trachea, it is too dangerous to do it with anesthesia. My dog is very sensitive to a lot of medication, but he would need something to help relax him. Contacting me via email is preferred. Thank you,

[Princes mom]

This is the attachment regarding anesthesia free cleanings...

American Veterinary Dental College Position Statement
Companion Animal Dental Scaling Without Anesthesia
In the United States and Canada, only licensed veterinarians can practice veterinary medicine. Veterinary medicine includes veterinary surgery, medicine and dentistry. Anyone providing dental services other than a licensed veterinarian, or a supervised and trained veterinary technician, is practicing veterinary medicine without a license and shall be subject to criminal charges.
This position statement addresses dental scaling procedures performed on pets without anesthesia, often by individuals untrained in veterinary dental techniques. Although the term “Anesthesia-Free Dentistry” has been used in this context, AVDC prefers to use the more accurate term Non-Professional Dental Scaling (NPDS) to describe this combination.
Owners of pets naturally are concerned when anesthesia is required for their pet. However, performing NPDS on an unanesthetized pet is inappropriate for the following reasons:
1. Dental tartar is firmly adhered to the surface of the teeth. Scaling to remove tartar is accomplished using ultrasonic and sonic power scalers, plus hand instruments that must have a sharp working edge to be used effectively. Even slight head movement by the patient could result in injury to the oral tissues of the patient, and the operator may be bitten when the patient reacts.
2. Professional dental scaling includes scaling the surfaces of the teeth both above and below the gingival margin (gum line), followed by dental polishing. The most critical part of a dental scaling procedure is scaling the tooth surfaces that are within the gingival pocket (the subgingival space between the gum and the root), where periodontal disease is active. Because the patient cooperates, dental scaling of human teeth performed by a professional trained in the procedures can be completed successfully without anesthesia. However, access to the subgingival area of every tooth is impossible in an unanesthetized canine or feline patient. Removal of dental tartar on the visible surfaces of the teeth has little effect on a pet’s health, and provides a false sense of accomplishment. The effect is purely cosmetic.
3. Inhalation anesthesia using a cuffed endotracheal tube provides three important advantages – the cooperation of the patient with a procedure it does not understand, elimination of pain resulting from examination and treatment of affected dental tissues during the procedure, and protection of the airway and lungs from accidental aspiration.
4. A complete oral examination, which is an important part of a professional dental scaling procedure, is not possible in an unanesthetized patient. The surfaces of the teeth facing the tongue cannot be examined, and areas of disease and discomfort are likely to be missed.
Safe use of an anesthetic or sedative in a dog or cat requires evaluation of the general health and size of the patient to determine the appropriate drug and dose, and continual monitoring of the patient. Veterinarians are trained in all of these procedures. Prescribing or administering anesthetic or sedative drugs by a non-veterinarian can be very dangerous, and is illegal.
Although anesthesia will never be 100% risk-free, modern anesthetic and patient evaluation techniques used in veterinary hospitals minimize the risks, and millions of dental scaling procedures are safely performed each year in veterinary hospitals.
To minimize the need for professional dental scaling procedures and to maintain optimal oral health, the AVDC recommends daily dental home care from an early age. This should include brushing or use of other effective techniques to retard accumulation of dental plaque, such as dental diets and chew materials. This, combined with periodic examination of the patient by a veterinarian and with dental scaling under anesthesia when indicated, will optimize life-long oral health for dogs and cats.
For general information on performance of dental procedures on veterinary patients, please read the AVDC Position Statement on Veterinary Dental Healthcare Providers, which is available on the AVDC web site (Home | AVDC - American Veterinary Dental College). For information on effective oral hygiene products for dogs and cats, visit the Veterinary Oral Health Council web site (Veterinary Oral Health Council).
For further information, contact Dr. Kenneth Lyon (480-833-7330) or Dr. Steven Holmstrom (650-610-9501), or send an e-mail message to the AVDC Secretary (ceh@vet.upenn.edu).
Statement adopted by the AVDC Board of Directors, April 10, 2004

[Princes mom]

Double posting

[dwerten]

I definitely am aware of that as get the cornell newsletter and there was a big write up about it. It is such a tough call and hard to say what is best to do. I have mixed feelings about it myself. I personally have had my dogs teeth done by bc dentist but have many friends who swear by the anesthesia free procedure. I do not deal with ct and i even go back and forth with it so cannot imagine how you feel