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Old 03-28-2010, 01:49 PM   #1
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Smile Jack's Update- Sorry this is long over due!

EVERYONE I AM SO SORRY I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO POST SOONER!

Wouldn't you know it, I got caught up in life. I have been busy substituting and job hunting. The financial situation is looking up again... for the time being. So again, I am so sorry I have not posted.

Jack is Jack. He hasn't really put much on for weight. But his attitude has improved. He eats the prescribed food. On Monday I am getting a copy of his test results from the vet. I found a vet in town that is willing to look at the results and take his case. So, I am setting him up for an appointment to get a new urine test done. I want to make sure that this food I got him is helping dissolve the crystals. I don't mind paying for it since he eats it as long as it is helping him. I wanted to wait a few months to see if this low protein, magnesium reduced diet would work. But I'm thinking that depending on what this new vet can tell me, Jack might go in for another BA test. From there, I will seek out institutes that specialize in liver shunts.... if the tests indicate one. Once I have the reports in my hands on Monday, I will scan it in and post it. Maybe someone can help me figure out what it means. I know it is important to hear it from the vet but I know there are people with experience out there.

Other than that, we got our first family picture taken the other day. Dan, myself, and the boys.... first time ever.... usually one of us needs to hold the camera. Again, I am sorry this is so long overdue!

And I just want to add, thank you to anyone and everyone that has helped, said a prayer, and/or offered kind words. It really helped me through all of this.




Here is the thread I originally created.
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...help-me-8.html
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Old 03-28-2010, 05:20 PM   #2
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thanks for updating us - what food are you feeding ?
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Old 03-29-2010, 06:20 AM   #3
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He is on science diet d/d. He is set up to go back for the next test or tests on Thursday. I am going to have a vet look at the test and see what he/she can derive from the results. And depending what the vet says, I might have him undergo a new BA test.
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Old 03-29-2010, 08:25 AM   #4
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Default Test Results

Okay my scanner is not working. The lab the vet sent the test to was IDEXX Laboratories. Not sure if anyone if familiar with them but they don't run on the typical 100 scale. And they don't provide a scale. But the thing they do tell me is that the pretest should be <7.0 umol/L which Jack was at 5.6 umol/L. And the post-test should be <15.0 umol/L and Jack had a 26.7 umol/L. And they flagged this as high.

I'm debating having him retested regardless of what this new vet says. Before, Jack was on a high protein food. I thought this might be best for him at the time because he is a very active dog. After that, I decided not to continue feeding it because both him and Madden picked around the food. I changed it to another holistic food but I believe it was higher in protein as well. I'm almost wondering if the low protein, magnesium reduced diet is helping. I'm very tempted to compare the tests and see if there is a difference between the tests. Does this sound awful? Any other suggestions.
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:48 AM   #5
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Okay my scanner is not working. The lab the vet sent the test to was IDEXX Laboratories. Not sure if anyone if familiar with them but they don't run on the typical 100 scale. And they don't provide a scale. But the thing they do tell me is that the pretest should be <7.0 umol/L which Jack was at 5.6 umol/L. And the post-test should be <15.0 umol/L and Jack had a 26.7 umol/L. And they flagged this as high.

I'm debating having him retested regardless of what this new vet says. Before, Jack was on a high protein food. I thought this might be best for him at the time because he is a very active dog. After that, I decided not to continue feeding it because both him and Madden picked around the food. I changed it to another holistic food but I believe it was higher in protein as well. I'm almost wondering if the low protein, magnesium reduced diet is helping. I'm very tempted to compare the tests and see if there is a difference between the tests. Does this sound awful? Any other suggestions.
honestly with those numbers i would never redo bat as it is obviously mvd and not a shunt so stick to low protein food and he should be fine. You just need to stick to 18% or below if having any symtpoms and if no symptoms 22% or less. My girl had 73, 54 and now 26 on low protein diet - these are all post figures her pre was always 3
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Old 03-29-2010, 12:01 PM   #6
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The test results look indicative of mild MVD/HMD (Hepatic Multivascular Dysplasia)

From: Diagnosis of Portosystemic Shunts

"Single congenital portosystemic shunts must be differentiated from multiple acquired shunts secondary to portal hypertension, and from hepatic microvascular dysplasia. Hepatic microvascular dysplasia (HMD) signifies a disorganization of the liver's microscopic architecture which is similar to that of dogs with single congenital shunts. HMD has been reported in small breed dogs such as the Yorkshire terrier, Cairn terrier, Maltese, cocker spaniel, and poodle. Dogs with HMD display biochemical, hematologic, and clinical changes consistent with portosystemic shunting but lack a macroscopic portosystemic shunt. Definitive diagnosis is by ruling out a macroscopic shunt through exploratory laparotomy, nuclear scan, or portography. Signs of HMD are managed by low protein diet; lactulose is added if necessary."

Generally, postprandial BAT Results < 100 tend to be indicative of MVD/HMD, and > 100 indicative of PSS (Portosystemic Shunt). Further testing would be by your decision, but many people who own dogs that have similar BAT results as your dog have chosen (with their vet's recommendation) to manage the MVD/HMD on diet alone, or diet and meds (if needed), with further testing for a more definitive diagnosis deemed not necessary, nor in the best interests of the dog.
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Old 03-29-2010, 12:03 PM   #7
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honestly with those numbers i would never redo bat as it is obviously mvd and not a shunt so stick to low protein food and he should be fine. You just need to stick to 18% or below if having any symtpoms and if no symptoms 22% or less. My girl had 73, 54 and now 26 on low protein diet - these are all post figures her pre was always 3
Sorry... didn't see you were online till after I hit the submit ....
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Old 03-29-2010, 12:09 PM   #8
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Sorry... didn't see you were online till after I hit the submit ....
no worries i always forget to sign off too lolllll so i may not be on even if it says i am
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Old 03-29-2010, 12:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvmyYorkieJack View Post
EVERYONE I AM SO SORRY I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO POST SOONER!

Wouldn't you know it, I got caught up in life. I have been busy substituting and job hunting. The financial situation is looking up again... for the time being. So again, I am so sorry I have not posted.

Jack is Jack. He hasn't really put much on for weight. But his attitude has improved. He eats the prescribed food. On Monday I am getting a copy of his test results from the vet. I found a vet in town that is willing to look at the results and take his case. So, I am setting him up for an appointment to get a new urine test done. I want to make sure that this food I got him is helping dissolve the crystals. I don't mind paying for it since he eats it as long as it is helping him. I wanted to wait a few months to see if this low protein, magnesium reduced diet would work. But I'm thinking that depending on what this new vet can tell me, Jack might go in for another BA test. From there, I will seek out institutes that specialize in liver shunts.... if the tests indicate one. Once I have the reports in my hands on Monday, I will scan it in and post it. Maybe someone can help me figure out what it means. I know it is important to hear it from the vet but I know there are people with experience out there.

Other than that, we got our first family picture taken the other day. Dan, myself, and the boys.... first time ever.... usually one of us needs to hold the camera. Again, I am sorry this is so long overdue!

And I just want to add, thank you to anyone and everyone that has helped, said a prayer, and/or offered kind words. It really helped me through all of this.




Here is the thread I originally created.
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...help-me-8.html

The University of Tennessee is one of the best, if not the best. Here's a link to their website:
Portosystemic Shunts FAQ

Much info on Liver Shunts, and they are more than likely the most reasonable from a financial perspective than any you may find. Also, they maintain the highest success rates on their LS surgeries, 95% last time I looked. They say the experience of the vet surgeon is the biggest factor in making a difference in the successfullness of these surgeries. And most have been done there.

Still, with your dog's BAT results, you won't have to investigate further.

So glad Jack is showing improvement!
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Last edited by kjc; 03-29-2010 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 03-29-2010, 04:06 PM   #10
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Okay. So even if the lab wasn't using a hundred scale, I can still think of it as MVD. I just don't understand the scale they are working with.
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Old 03-29-2010, 06:49 PM   #11
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Okay. So even if the lab wasn't using a hundred scale, I can still think of it as MVD. I just don't understand the scale they are working with.
yes as our specialist uses idexx as well so you are fine - just make sure they sent out to the lab and did not do inhouse labs as there is such thing as snap testing that is done in house
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Old 04-01-2010, 05:07 PM   #12
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Default Jack's Vet Visit

Today went better than I could have ever hoped! They did a urinanalysis and got some really good results back. The magnesium based crystals the previous vet found are completely gone! The vet also consulted with another vet that will be joining their team in the beginning of May. She has an invested interest with liver diseases and shunts because her dog had one. She said based on the results, there is no way that it could be a shunt. She would have expected certain numbers to be elevated not decreased. She would have also expected him to show more symptoms than he has.... especially over the last few months. She says he probably has MVD or some type of liver disease. But we agreed with the vet that as long as he is thriving on a controlled, managed diet, there is no point in continuing with tests to find out exactly what. We don't see a point in putting him thorugh pain just to find out. And he also has gained back the 0.7-1.0 pound he lost before!!!!!!! Hopefully we can get his weight up to where it should be but for now, I am just happy that he has improved in two months. And I'm glad I got another opinon instead of just jumping into surgery because one vet said I should.
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Old 04-01-2010, 05:56 PM   #13
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Today went better than I could have ever hoped! They did a urinanalysis and got some really good results back. The magnesium based crystals the previous vet found are completely gone! The vet also consulted with another vet that will be joining their team in the beginning of May. She has an invested interest with liver diseases and shunts because her dog had one. She said based on the results, there is no way that it could be a shunt. She would have expected certain numbers to be elevated not decreased. She would have also expected him to show more symptoms than he has.... especially over the last few months. She says he probably has MVD or some type of liver disease. But we agreed with the vet that as long as he is thriving on a controlled, managed diet, there is no point in continuing with tests to find out exactly what. We don't see a point in putting him thorugh pain just to find out. And he also has gained back the 0.7-1.0 pound he lost before!!!!!!! Hopefully we can get his weight up to where it should be but for now, I am just happy that he has improved in two months. And I'm glad I got another opinon instead of just jumping into surgery because one vet said I should.
sounds like the new vet is on top of it that is great as i hate to see dogs put through unnecessary testing
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