Originally Posted by mileydog (Post 3083474)

I agree that quality food will help and I am a firm believer that diet is a key driver to living a healthy lifestyle. My problem is that although most people understand that diet is important but they cannot commit to follow a strict diet. Many times I see soccor mom's buying Mcdonalds and Taco Bell for their skin kids but they are also telling me how they are home cooking for their dogs. It just seems so odd that they don't provide the same quality of foods for both the fur babies and the skin kids. I mean to go through the extra effort to cook for the dogs and then to buy Taco Bell for the 10 year old kids makes no sense.

Originally Posted by mileydog (Post 3083494)

Its very difficult to continually feed kids a healthy diet. They are influenced by their school mates who drink sodas, eat hot dogs and chips, snack on cookies and ice cream, and then when they get home from school are you supposed to feed them steam carrots with a side of whole wheat crackers with hummus. For dinner, some boiled chicken with a side of brown rice. Hmmm..my kids say they won't eat that disgusting stuff. Although i eat it...the skin kids refuse to eat that stuff.

Originally Posted by boomerstv (Post 3053310)

Hi,

Our two Yorkies are the healthiest dogs ever. We feed them a combination of organic real food with a small amount of pet supplementations. Their little poops are always well formed, and not very stinky.

Here is their diet.

70% of each meal is chopped steamed green beans. I steam up a bunch and keep them in the fridge. We serve them cold. Add to that a small amount of chopped boiled organinc chicken breast, a nice portion of frozen organic blueberries (I chop them up if they are really big), steamed sweet potatoes, a dollop of either organic cottage cheese or organic plain yogurt (not low fat).

There is a company called Earth Animal that makes a terrific supplement in soft nugget form. We add one of these nuggets to two of the meals. Also, once a day I give them fish oil (Mercury free -strained available at Whole Foods) - I squeeze the fish oil out of the gel tab into their food. Occasionally I will substitute grilled Salmon for the chicken, in which case I pass on the fish oil tab.

We feed our dogs three times a day plus a tiny midnight snack of the steamed sweet potatos. We give the snack because one of our pups has a tendency to develop gastro entritis is her tummy is emptry for a long time.

We feed ZERO kibble. Totally not necessary for the health of the dog.

In the AM we do give them a small dog "biscuit" made by EVO - The Ancestral Diet.

Not to brag, but our pups poops are alway nicely formed, solid and not very stinky.

Hope this helps.

Please note that the greenbeans, organic chicken and sweet potatoes are steamed, NOT BOILED, this is for maximum nutritive value.

Best Regards,

boomerstv

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie (Post 3083487)

i also want to say that junk food is very cheap in america, so if we calculate the REAL cost of junk food by adding in health care costs because eating this type of garbage diet makes people sick. anyways, basically, if taco bell and mcdonalds are the most expensive things people can eat, then parent's will not be feeding it to their children or themselves.

Originally Posted by mileydog (Post 3083500)

Its not just cost...fresh vegetables are very cheap...so is brown rice with boiled chicken. Kids can care less about the costs... and parents can make healthy alternatives for the same cost as making pizzas and chicken nuggets at home.

Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 3083495)

Oooo, didn't know you were coming from the point of view that the dogs in a family eat healthier than the kids. Yes, I don't agree with that. I also don't have a problem with dogs eating really well. I just think kids have to come first.

Originally Posted by mileydog (Post 3083507)

Exactly my point. I hate hearing at Soccor practice that there just isnt enough time during the week between homework, practice and American Idol for cooking a proper meal. Yet they bring their Yorkies around who are bathed/groomed and quality fed. Yet the kids are eating Mcdonalds because there just isn't enough time during the week. Please...kids these days just don't eat healthy. yes I realize that Whole Foods is expensive...but parents can make healthy foods for very reasonable costs. I just want the kids to be taken care of like the dogs on YT.

Originally Posted by Yorkiedaze (Post 3055076)

OMG addevo and yorkiepuppy, I'm not sure if you "really" want to know what I cook up and freeze! :eek: I can tell you but not sure if your really ready for this:

10 pounds of red meat. (I use ground Bison ) You can buy inexpensive roasts and have the butcher grind it which is generally cheaper than buying the meat already ground. It’s also leaner to buy the roast and have ground).
6 packages of calf liver (cover with water, boil till done then put in the refrigerator till very cold. (save the liver broth)
2 cup of wild rice
2 cup gourmet field blend black mahogany rice (Lundberg Wehani Brand) I get these as Lassens in Santa Maria.
2 cup gourmet aromatic whole grain brown rice (Lundberg Wehani Brand)
1 cup split peas
1 cup lentils
1 cup whole grain millet (I buy at Lassens)
1 cup whole grain barley
2 cups dried vegetable mix Grain?Free Natural Dog Food - Veg-To-Bowl - Dr. Harvey's
3 large heads of broccoli, slightly steamed. Put in either the freezer or refrigerator to stop the cooking process.
Depending on the amount of time each ingredient takes to cook, you will be adding only two or three of the ingredients at a time. Look on the cooking directions.
I cook the split peas and lentils in some of the liver broth and five cloves of garlic till the split peas and lentils are crisp tender then discard the garlic cloves.
Cook the vegetables in two cups of the liver broth for about 5 minutes (covered) and five garlic cloves, turn off the heat and allow the vegetables to absorb the liver broth. Discard the garlic cloves.
Grind the meat and broccoli till fine and add all ingredients together in a VERY large pan. Mix well and put in plastic containers and freeze.

I don't use poultry, but if you would like to boil or bake up a small turkey and grind it with the other meats, it will certainly make enough food to last quite a long time depending on how many dogs you are feeding. (If you do cook a turkey to add, then you can then increase the other four grains from 1 cup to 2 cups each). I'm feeding 5 dogs right now and the recipe I make up feeds them 1/4 rounded cup twice daily for 45 to 50 days if I feed only this, but I like giving them scrambled eggs and oatmeal for breakfast once in awhile, salmon and sweet potatoes once in awhile and so on. I also like giving them a light lunch of Yogurt & berries.
My foster, Porkchop is on a diet, so she will get 1/4 of the mix with some grated carrots, baby bok-choy and snow peas. (plus two walks a day) ;)
I make the HEALTHY POWDER and put a teaspoon over their food twice a day along with Omega 3, & 6 gel cap split between them.

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie (Post 3083506)

yes, but it's the lethal combination of:

cost + kids prefer junk food + really easy + no need to do any dishes + give you more free time to do other things ...

i do not know what i will do if i have skin kids.

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie (Post 3083506)

yes, but it's the lethal combination of:

cost + kids prefer junk food + really easy + no need to do any dishes + give you more free time to do other things ...

i do not know what i will do if i have skin kids.

Originally Posted by Cerise (Post 3083550)

LOL!

IMO the problem is lethal because fast food parents are LAZY! I hear complaints all the time about how hard it is or how tired parents are :rolleyes: I have no sympathy for it because I had three kids and worked and still came home and cooked healthy meals. Did my kids like it all the time...no but they ate it because those were MY RULES. They rebelled for a very short time once they got on their own, but suddenly they felt sickly, gassy and bloated, then returned to the healthy eating roots their momma raised them on. They are now men and cook the most delicious meals and all three are advocates for not eating fast food. So I know for a fact getting kids to eating healthy can be done. But if the parents don't eat right... what can be said?

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie (Post 3083556)

i am happy to hear you say this :) so there is hope! lol.

although i must say, it does sound a little difficult to work and then come home and cook. maybe it's easier once it's a routine?

Originally Posted by Cerise (Post 3083566)

It was exhausting and rewarding at the same time. I bought a bunch of cookbooks and learned how to make quick healthy meals. I also kept a stocked kitchen and made them eat plenty of fruit and drink plenty of water.

Now I have a furbaby that is picky and I even have to make Cerise drink water :rolleyes: But she does enjoy watching me cook. She has even started talking at me (hurry up mommy I'm hungry) LOL while I'm cooking...LOL

Originally Posted by mileydog (Post 3083529)

I can tell you what you will do. Depending on your financial situation..you will attempt to feed you little baby all the healthy things that you find while you research on various forums, books, doctors..etc....but soon your kid will go to school and learn that other kids get to drink sodas, eat frozen chicken nuggets, and Oreos...Then its going to be hard to get them back on the Whole Foods snacks like organic grapes, organic dried mango slices, and omega 3 enhanced pretzels.

Yet you will still feed your dogs the same Whole Foods quality food. Its a crazy paradox in a sense its that you just want your kids/dogs happy. Your believe that your dog is happier when they eat healthier. You understand that your kid needs to eat healthy yet don't want to upset them when you feed them grapefruits instead of Rice Krispy Treats.

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie (Post 3083584)

that is so sweet! :)

i will be asking you for advice once i have kids who detest my cooking. lol.

milu used to hate eating too, now she also likes to come in the kitchen when i am preparing her food. it's so cute when they wait for you. :) :) :)

Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 3196404)

I saw this thread just mentioned in another thread so thought I'd come back and update. I'm bored.:rolleyes:

Looking into the raw diet more (not to feed it...). I'm now seeing that dogs fed raw (at least prey model/raw eat from home, etc,) are at an increased risk for a few different types of tapeworms and toxoplasmosis. There is also one study (which I want more information on) linking leptospirosis to dogs fed raw meat. All very interesting...

Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 3196680)

Me too and I think it's cool to understand how things work, but then there is teh gap between what they teach and what applies to dogs. I wish they would offer more classes geared toward animals. I'm feeling less lost on at least understanding what things mean since starting my class though. :)

Not sure how raw feeders feel about toxo and tapes and if they have any research showing that they get killed during digestion, but with the larvae and everything, can it get into the blood stream and then into the heart and brain? I know a study was done showing that tapes (I think they were T. Solium but could be wrong) can get into the heart and brain of dogs, but I don't think that had anything to do with raw meat in that case. So many questions... And in one study, the dogs who were more likely to test positive for salmonella were raw fed dogs "and" homecooked...

Seroprevalence and risk factors associated with le... [Southeast Asian J Trop Med Public Health. 2006] - PubMed result
[Occurrence of antibodies and risk factors for inf... [Rev Bras Parasitol Vet. 2009 Jul-Sep] - PubMed result
Neosporosis and hammondiosis in dogs. [J Small Anim Pract. 2007] - PubMed result
Perceptions, practices, and consequences associate... [Can Vet J. 2009] - PubMed result
Evaluation of the association between feeding raw ... [J Am Vet Med Assoc. 2006] - PubMed result
Evaluation of bacterial and protozoal contaminatio... [J Am Vet Med Assoc. 2006] - PubMed result
Merck Veterinary Manual


But then kibble (and apparently homecooked) can still contain salmonella and there is no perfect feeding method. Just something I've been looking into lately...

Originally Posted by PrincessDiana (Post 3196725)

Thanks for posting these! Although I realize that this isn't the case for all pet owners - I personally have a degree in Zoology and my senior capstone was in parasitology. I have also done extensive research into the raw diet and am fully aware of the risks involved with feeding a raw (particularly prey-model raw) diet. These risks are present ANY time there is raw meat involved, including for human use. Pet owners should do their own research and take the proper precautions to prevent the spread of any parasitic or infectious diseases. One of the case studies even specifics states: "Responses to a questionnaire probing practices and beliefs regarding raw meat feeding that was administered to dog owners demonstrated that dog owners may either not be aware or refuse to acknowledge the risks associated with raw meat-feeding; thus, they may neglect to conduct adequate intervention strategies to prevent zoonoses among themselves and their families."

SO... my point is -- I generally feel that pet owners who feed raw take the time to do extensive research and do employ prevention and intervention strategies to ensure their pets and family are safe. Proper food storage and handling are things I always stress when educating others' about the raw diet.

Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 3196759)

And then even if it is handled properly by owners and they get it from the best sources (not thinking either is true for a lot of people :( ), there are still things in raw meat that owners really should know about. Even meat fit for human consumption doesn't guarantee no bacteria or parasites. I really haven't seen anything about if this stuff is definitely killed off if the meat is frozen or what. A bit uncomfy about giving toxo or tapes to my pup even if I though they could process it just fine, but we all have different comfort levels. :)

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie (Post 3196920)

i started feeding raw to my dogs because i feel that it's the best choice as far as nutrition, and when i learned a little bit more. i started looking into the safety issues, and feel that home-cooking is a good comprise between raw food and kibble, safety and nutrition.

someone had suggested that i make my own raw dog food, but i feel even less safe about that option because honestly, with the pre-made raw dog food, they know you will be feeding it raw to the dogs, but with raw people food, they expect you to cook it before consuming it. so i am not sure how safe it is to make your own raw food.

Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 3196957)

I want to know if parasite larvae is killed during freezing. Anybody know?
I can tell you reallllllllllllly want what is best. For us, the choice is so easy b/c she isn't allowed to have anything else medically. lol.

At this point, I think what diet is better for the doggies is based on hearsay and not necessarily science. We can say that wolves eat raw so dogs should, but is that the safest? Probably not. There are no studies that take a look at the overall picture. It's all one small area of the feeding plan and the control groups don't seem quite right to me. In the one study they tested what, 24 types of raw food against 4 types of kibble/canned? I dunno. Doesn't seem right. But then, of course raw is going to have more bacteria, etc. So nutritionally speaking we could say that dogs should get what wolves get b/c they are pretty much wolves. But that does not take the safety issue into account, the fact that what wolves eat my not be optimal, etc. Just like I can say homecooked is great if done correctly. I have no study to base that on. There are subjective reports of dogs doing well on it. There is no control group of kibble fed dogs. So it's coming down to testimonials pretty much. That's not all bad, but it's not science either. And I know for me the studies I do see on raw absolutely positively make me want to run the other way b/c unless I see raw fed dogs regularly living longer lives (it would have to be very obvious), then I wouldn't take the risk. I still see raw fed (and homecooked fed) dogs get sick and I don't see an increase in lifespan across the board (20 years +). So I think it's really still a ton of guessing.

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie (Post 3196998)

ok, you always answer my questions, so i really want to answer a few questions for you! (but you always know more than i do! so it's hard to do!) lol.

i just looked at my food safety notes from class, and it says:

parasitic infections:
a) worms form cysts.
b) if you eat the adult, the worm is killed
c) if you eat the cyst, calcium salts around the cyst are dissolved in the stomach,
d) worm ho into stomach, intestine.
e)travel through lymph system to muscle tissue
f) .....
ok, i am just going to skip to the part that answers your Q. lol

worms can then go into dormant stage (cyst forms)
can be destroyed at 140F for 10 minutes, or 4% salt solution for 14 days, or by freezing at -20F, sterilized meat in 6 days.

Originally Posted by Ellie May (Post 3197049)

So then do raw feeders universally know that the cysts are destroyed at -20F? Normal freezers are about 0F (looked it up). I don't think most people know this. Never seen exact temps mentioned when freezing raw. It looks like toxo is killed in a household freezer after 24 hours. I wonder if freezing does anything for bacteria and what about freeze drying. Hmm. I'm surprised that there aren't more charts about this kind of thing. I still think there are major issues with giving bone and balancing the way it is done for raw diet, but it seems that it would be much safter if everything could be "frozen out." lol

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie (Post 3197052)

i am not sure about freeze drying, but freezing at 0F stops growth of bacteria, but it may allow bacteria to survive. so during the thawing process, the bacteria that survived can grow and produce toxins...sigh~

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie (Post 3196746)

actually, i am not sure if most pet owners take time to do extensive researches before feeding raw. i know i didn't, i heard a lot of good things about it, and i read some info online, and i just started feeding it to my dogs. it's not till recently that i started trying to learn more about it all. the reason is because i don't think most pet owners are interested in learning about dog nutrition, i know that i would prefer if someone can just tell me what the best thing to feed my dog instead of me trying to figure all this stuff out. i think it's more fun to read about dog training or even dog psychology then it is to read about dog nutrition for me personally.