Liver Shunts & Diet; Muffy is a picky eater

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by AnnaCraig

As far as I know, she does not have MVD. Our veterinarian only used the term Liver Shunt. We do not know if it is internal (inside her liver) or external (outside the liver).

What is this about supplements? Should we be giving her a supplement of some kind?

The only thing we are doing for her treatment is feeding her a low protein diet.
This is so stressful!

in small dogs it is external shunt and large dogs have internal shunts. Join the group you will learn a ton there as well on this. Low protein is very important.

[dwerten]

how did they diagnose your dog?

[AnnaCraig]

Originally Posted by dwerten

how did they diagnose your dog?

She was going to get spayed and they did a bile acid test and her numbers were high. So, because of the test, the vet said she most likely has a liver shunt.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by AnnaCraig

She was going to get spayed and they did a bile acid test and her numbers were high. So, because of the test, the vet said she most likely has a liver shunt.

did they give you the numbers? if so can you post the pre and post

[AnnaCraig]

Originally Posted by dwerten

did they give you the numbers? if so can you post the pre and post

My dad can't remember off the top of his head but he wants to say pre:15 post:78

but like I said, he can not remember. He says that he may have written it down somewhere. He will check tomorrow probably.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by AnnaCraig

My dad can't remember off the top of his head but he wants to say pre:15 post:78

but like I said, he can not remember. He says that he may have written it down somewhere. He will check tomorrow probably.

ok then not a shunt if below 100 my vet had me all freaked about it being a shunt too and she had no symptoms and was 73 so i put her on low protein diet and she is on temarilp which affects liver and still never had any symptoms. Vets sadly are not all that up on liver shunt and tend to run wild with it - my girl has been under anesthesia twice and it went fine so I would not stress too much but have your dad fax the records and you need to keep a file at home with all records in case of emergency anyway

[AnnaCraig]

Originally Posted by dwerten

ok then not a shunt if below 100 my vet had me all freaked about it being a shunt too and she had no symptoms and was 73 so i put her on low protein diet and she is on temarilp which affects liver and still never had any symptoms. Vets sadly are not all that up on liver shunt and tend to run wild with it - my girl has been under anesthesia twice and it went fine so I would not stress too much but have your dad fax the records and you need to keep a file at home with all records in case of emergency anyway

Okay well my dad will try to find the number or call the vet to get the record if he can not find it.
I'll definitely let you know!
Thank you soooo so much!

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by dwerten

you can do denamarin which has both milk thistle and sam-e in it together but first is this MVD or liver shunt and how was it diagnosed as i have an mvd dog and do not supplement only feed low protein diet

I think it really depends on what way you and your vet want to go with it.
Ellie has a liver issue. We don't know what it is, but it's treated as MVD. I, her vet, and her internist can't see supplementing as a bad thing. It can't hurt and it "may" protect her liver from further damage which is a good enough reason for me to do it. I know many people like Marin (or Denamarin) for this, but some don't like the small amount of liver in it.

Originally Posted by AnnaCraig

As far as I know, she does not have MVD. Our veterinarian only used the term Liver Shunt. We do not know if it is internal (inside her liver) or external (outside the liver).

What is this about supplements? Should we be giving her a supplement of some kind?

The only thing we are doing for her treatment is feeding her a low protein diet.
This is so stressful!

If she were mine, yes, I would supplement.
You could start with SAMe (Denosyl).

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I think it really depends on what way you and your vet want to go with it.
Ellie has a liver issue. We don't know what it is, but it's treated as MVD. I, her vet, and her internist can't see supplementing as a bad thing. It can't hurt and it "may" protect her liver from further damage which is a good enough reason for me to do it. I know many people like Marin (or Denamarin) for this, but some don't like the small amount of liver in it.



If she were mine, yes, I would supplement.
You could start with SAMe (Denosyl).

I agree it cannot hurt but dd does not have high alt or any high values for her liver other than the bile acids and she has horrible allergies and takes soloxine for hypothyroid and doing one more thing and risking allergies i do not do it even though i am sure it would be good

I do know that juiced zucchini is cleansing to liver and many juice zucchini with celery and put pulp on food and juice for their dogs with liver issues as the zucchine cleanses liver and celery cleanses urinary tract.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by AnnaCraig

Okay well my dad will try to find the number or call the vet to get the record if he can not find it.
I'll definitely let you know!
Thank you soooo so much!

Anna...did you ever find the definite lab values ?

Also, EllieMay / Dwerten...what *are* the "cut off" values for liver shunt?

[AnnaCraig]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Anna...did you ever find the definite lab values ?

Also, EllieMay / Dwerten...what *are* the "cut off" values for liver shunt?

Hey! Not yet, I'll need to remind my dad. The vet will be open tomorrow so he can call!

[AnnaCraig]

I have really terrible news

I use "gmail" for my email, and there is an archive button. I remembered that my dad had emailed me the numbers when we found out about it.
Here is what he had said:

"I called Dr. Crouch. He got the lab results back. Muffy definitely has a liver problem. The normal reading on an empty stomach is 7 or less. Muffy's was 15. They fed her and tested her again. After food, the normal reading is 15 or less. Muffy's was 140!"

So it looks like she most likely does have a liver shunt.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Anna...did you ever find the definite lab values ?

Also, EllieMay / Dwerten...what *are* the "cut off" values for liver shunt?

less than 100 is usually mvd my girl had 3 bile acids first 73 then 54 then 26 onl low protein diet and all pre were 3

there can be a thrown off value due to gall bladder contraction when testing so why we did 3 and now we just keep her on a low protein diet. The first test he did not do pre only post so we had to redo pre and post then i put her on low protein diet and had jean dodds redo it 6 mos later and she was almost normal so this is the least of her issues but still something to be concerned about with meds and anesthesia but she just had dental and dentist said she did great

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by AnnaCraig

I have really terrible news

I use "gmail" for my email, and there is an archive button. I remembered that my dad had emailed me the numbers when we found out about it.
Here is what he had said:

"I called Dr. Crouch. He got the lab results back. Muffy definitely has a liver problem. The normal reading on an empty stomach is 7 or less. Muffy's was 15. They fed her and tested her again. After food, the normal reading is 15 or less. Muffy's was 140!"

So it looks like she most likely does have a liver shunt.

possibly a shunt then. The pre is not too horrible but the post being over 100 I would put on low protein diet and retest in 6 months if you cannot do the scintigraphy which is about $390 here in california

[Sashabear0430]

Originally Posted by AnnaCraig

It's the family dog; I am sixteen. We have a dachshund as well, so Muffy isn't the only dog in the family. Thank you for the information though, about the feeding 5 to 6 small meals!

finally someone near my age with a dog who possibly has a liver shunt! Im 17 years old and my yorkie may or may not have a shunt. I cant afford surgery right now if she does have one so she is on diet food and meds. people on here are always pushing surgery on to me and its frustrating because I dont have the money! just be sure she eats enough food. what were her symptoms before you knew she had a shunt?