Oral Hygiene - Help!

[addevo]

Originally Posted by Karrie

Hi all -

I'm not trying to "pimp" my mom or her recipe - but I do believe in her and her research. In addition to providing me with this basic recipe, Mom has helped many other dog owners with special needs by adjusting the ingredients.

I have a 13 year old former puppymill "mommy dog" who has chronic pancreatitis. The vet recommended a prescription diet which she hands down refused to eat. So my husband cooks her a chicken and rice, including some organ meats and vitamins. He makes a batch and then freezes it into individual serving sized portions. She has done well on the diet, with few recurrences of the pancreatitis.

We've had her teeth cleaned twice in the past 5 years that we've had her, but as she ages she might not be able to endure the anesthesia in the future.

Do you or your mom have any thoughts on feeding a raw diet to a Yorkie with pancreatitis?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

i feed mine an adjusted measurement of 1 tbsp 3 times a day because she's growing. when she's older it will adjust more to her size and needs.

this recipe gives a certain calorie amount. Karrie on here can give you that if she wants to. it breaks down the exact amount of calories in the recipe so you know how to measure it correctly for the weight of the dogs.

advice. if you are going to talk to your vet about raw:

most vets do not agree with raw. they are programming in school to only approve Royal Canin or science diet or other kibble foods that aren't even premium choices. your vet might be a good one that actually knows a little about nutrition, but most don't know that much and they will recommend lower quality foods that have contracts with the vet offices somehow.

People say this so much some people begin to think it's true, vets do not recommend Science diet or other low rated foods because they are getting a kick-back or because they know nothing about nutrition. While it's true most vets are not experts in nutrition, they usually have had one class, and that's all it would take to tell you some of the stuff you read on the web, is nonsense. Did you know that on those rating sites, the people have had NO classes in nutrition? They have no credentials, at all, on Dog Food Analysis it even says,

"The ratings given and comments made about the foods assessed on this site and ingredients listed are the opinion of the Editors, who are a small team of volunteers each with a long standing interest in dog nutrition." http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/about.html

These are not good credentials, they are extreemly poor, yet so many people recommend the site, that people think it's a good site. Another thing, is that most vets are trained by the "scientific method". Unless something can be backed up with empirical evidence, or scientific testing, they disregard it as being a "fact." There is much said on different sites about the benefit of this or the harm of that, but if there is no empirical evidence, vets aren't as likely to believe it as the average consumer, who tends to believe whatever looks official, or they read enough times.

Concerning raw and the benefits, it may be true that raw is healthier, but if it is, someone should be able to test this, and prove it, and in 10 years we may have more evidence. Right now, most vets aren't going to recommend something that hasn't been tested for safety. Just one article I read about raw, bothered me, and the fact that meat processing plants, even those that process organic meat are exposed to millions of chemicals and hormones, and these hormones and chemicals are destroyed by heat, but with raw, you are subjecting your dog to these chemicals and hormones, so it's not the bacteria that vets are worried about like so many sites claim, its the chemicals. There are benefits and risks with every food we choose, I only had one class in nutrition myself, but I can tell you that I learned that things are much more complex than what you read on the web, and the true experts, act much more uncertain with everything than the people who claim to be experts. Remember, a doctors first promise is to do no harm, and recommending a food that has a rather good record for safety and has been tested is better than recommending something that hasn't been thoroughly tested. Even with a homemade diet that has been tested for nutritional balance, just changing one thing can upset the whole nutritional value, and people love to do substitutions. So for most people a commercial dog food that has been tested is the safest method, it may not be the absolute best, but it is considered the safest.

[JPop & Taz 2]

Thanks, Nancy, definitely some food for thought. I'm still going to run it by my vet; let him compare ingredients in the Chicken Soup that I feed now and the raw diet. I live in a very rural area, so I have to depend on my vet.

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by addevo

I have a 13 year old former puppymill "mommy dog" who has chronic pancreatitis. The vet recommended a prescription diet which she hands down refused to eat. So my husband cooks her a chicken and rice, including some organ meats and vitamins. He makes a batch and then freezes it into individual serving sized portions. She has done well on the diet, with few recurrences of the pancreatitis.

We've had her teeth cleaned twice in the past 5 years that we've had her, but as she ages she might not be able to endure the anesthesia in the future.

Do you or your mom have any thoughts on feeding a raw diet to a Yorkie with pancreatitis?

I'll let aunt Karrie get this one in full, but i do know that Bailey has had pancreatitis and is still on her raw diet and doing well with it. Karrie can tell you more though

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

People say this so much some people begin to think it's true, vets do not recommend Science diet or other low rated foods because they are getting a kick-back or because they know nothing about nutrition. While it's true most vets are not experts in nutrition, they usually have had one class, and that's all it would take to tell you some of the stuff you read on the web, is nonsense. Did you know that on those rating sites, the people have had NO classes in nutrition? They have no credentials, at all, on Dog Food Analysis it even says,

"The ratings given and comments made about the foods assessed on this site and ingredients listed are the opinion of the Editors, who are a small team of volunteers each with a long standing interest in dog nutrition." http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/about.html

These are not good credentials, they are extreemly poor, yet so many people recommend the site, that people think it's a good site. Another thing, is that most vets are trained by the "scientific method". Unless something can be backed up with empirical evidence, or scientific testing, they disregard it as being a "fact." There is much said on different sites about the benefit of this or the harm of that, but if there is no empirical evidence, vets aren't as likely to believe it as the average consumer, who tends to believe whatever looks official, or they read enough times.

Concerning raw and the benefits, it may be true that raw is healthier, but if it is, someone should be able to test this, and prove it, and in 10 years we may have more evidence. Right now, most vets aren't going to recommend something that hasn't been tested for safety. Just one article I read about raw, bothered me, and the fact that meat processing plants, even those that process organic meat are exposed to millions of chemicals and hormones, and these hormones and chemicals are destroyed by heat, but with raw, you are subjecting your dog to these chemicals and hormones, so it's not the bacteria that vets are worried about like so many sites claim, its the chemicals. There are benefits and risks with every food we choose, I only had one class in nutrition myself, but I can tell you that I learned that things are much more complex than what you read on the web, and the true experts, act much more uncertain with everything than the people who claim to be experts. Remember, a doctors first promise is to do no harm, and recommending a food that has a rather good record for safety and has been tested is better than recommending something that hasn't been thoroughly tested. Even with a homemade diet that has been tested for nutritional balance, just changing one thing can upset the whole nutritional value, and people love to do substitutions. So for most people a commercial dog food that has been tested is the safest method, it may not be the absolute best, but it is considered the safest.

in our raw diet, we often use raw ground venison that was actually harvested by my aunt's hubby or my father or even hopefully me and my dh. there are no chemicals or hormones added to freshly killed and butchered meats, if you have no access to this type of fresh meat, then ground beef and turkey fromt he grocery are still okay to give, but like Nancy said there is no guarantee that those don't have fillers, hormones, and chemicals. but along with that, IMO, there's a greater risk of those types of things being in our commercial "dog" food, than "human grade" food. the things in dog food if you really knew the truth would shock and apall you.

thanks though Nancy for clearing up that sometimes no matter what we do there will still be nasty things in both dog and human foods. to be truly natural, one must make the kill themselves and know it's fresh meat and grow their own organic veggies. IMO that's the only way to know your food is contaminant and chemical free.

[Karrie]

Originally Posted by addevo

I have a 13 year old former puppymill "mommy dog" who has chronic pancreatitis. The vet recommended a prescription diet which she hands down refused to eat. So my husband cooks her a chicken and rice, including some organ meats and vitamins. He makes a batch and then freezes it into individual serving sized portions. She has done well on the diet, with few recurrences of the pancreatitis.

We've had her teeth cleaned twice in the past 5 years that we've had her, but as she ages she might not be able to endure the anesthesia in the future.

Do you or your mom have any thoughts on feeding a raw diet to a Yorkie with pancreatitis?

Yes, Bailey had a one-time pancreatic attack a few months ago. I regret to say that it was all my fault. We've always shared snacks with Bailey without issue. Then one week, we just went overboard with the extras - hence the pancreatic attack.

Anyhow,the following adjustments were made to lower the fat content:
97% ground beef (which I was already doing)
2% cottage cheese (which I was already doing)
1 egg (instead of two)
1/2 tablespoon of the safflower oil

Because this was Bailey's only attack, the vet said to gradually get her back on her same diet as it was not causing issues before. So, after a few days of chicken 'n rice, we started her back on the raw - first in smaller portions more often, then gradually back to twice a day.

I'm a human grade feeder (I just don't trust the dog food industry)- so for snacks - Bailey gets low-fat animal crackers, cheerios and dehydrated turkey/venison pieces.

[Karrie]

Originally Posted by Maddie23

do you serve it to them straight from fridge, room temp, or warm it up?

I put her serving in the microwave for 8 secs. just to remove the chill and make it more appetizing for Bailey. Not sure she appreciates my efforts, tho - she gets soooo excited she can't hardly stand the 8 sec wait. Once I open the microwave door, she'll run to her eating place, so excited that her front feet lift off the floor several times as I bring it to her.

Life is good!!

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by Karrie

I put her serving in the microwave for 8 secs. just to remove the chill and make it more appetizing for Bailey. Not sure she appreciates my efforts, tho - she gets soooo excited she can't hardly stand the 8 sec wait. Once I open the microwave door, she'll run to her eating place, so excited that her front feet lift off the floor several times as I bring it to her.

Life is good!!

Sadie does the same thing. she sees me get the special bowls out "thanks Karrie for those" and then knows the difference between a microwave session that lasts too long and the sound of her bowl on the glass plate and the 6-8 second nuking. she dances and jumps and runs to her kennel and sits for me so i can give it to her...soooo cute

wanted to add. we use cheerios, rice/corn chex mix pieces, and we also give baby carrots once in awhile and she'll play with and kinda chew them!

[BonBon]

Originally Posted by Karrie

I put her serving in the microwave for 8 secs. just to remove the chill and make it more appetizing for Bailey. Not sure she appreciates my efforts, tho - she gets soooo excited she can't hardly stand the 8 sec wait. Once I open the microwave door, she'll run to her eating place, so excited that her front feet lift off the floor several times as I bring it to her.

Life is good!!

I just had to smile as I read this. I can picture her impatience perfectly! Gotta love yorkitude!

[addevo]

Originally Posted by Karrie

Yes, Bailey had a one-time pancreatic attack a few months ago. I regret to say that it was all my fault. We've always shared snacks with Bailey without issue. Then one week, we just went overboard with the extras - hence the pancreatic attack.

Anyhow,the following adjustments were made to lower the fat content:
97% ground beef (which I was already doing)
2% cottage cheese (which I was already doing)
1 egg (instead of two)
1/2 tablespoon of the safflower oil

Because this was Bailey's only attack, the vet said to gradually get her back on her same diet as it was not causing issues before. So, after a few days of chicken 'n rice, we started her back on the raw - first in smaller portions more often, then gradually back to twice a day.

I'm a human grade feeder (I just don't trust the dog food industry)- so for snacks - Bailey gets low-fat animal crackers, cheerios and dehydrated turkey/venison pieces.

Karrie, thank you so much for the advice and adjustments to your recipe. My vet really didn't have any ideas about it, she just referred me to a local holistic pet food store that sells raw food to get their opinion. But I'd already been there to find an alternative to the Science Diet food that the vet sells, and they didn't have any suggestions at all. I have so MUCH more confidence in your first hand experience!

[inluvwithfluff]

I just wanted to say that Biscuit had his dental today and everything went well. He was a bit spooked at first but now he's as happy as ever

I want to thank everyone who gave suggestions/shared experiences/expanded on this topic. It's been extremely insightful.