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Royal Canin Puppy vs. Wellness Puppy Good afternoon, Our breeder feeds her puppies Royal Canin and later switches them to Canidae. Originally, I was going to switch from Royal Canin puppy to Wellness because I already had a bag of it (long story). I thought of switching to the Wellness puppy because the ingredients didn't include corn(particularly in the top 5), which by word of mouth is not the best thing. I then ran into a Royal Canin rep at the pets store and she stated that corn is actually a necessary filler and is fine for the dogs. It also seems that Royal Canin specifically targets Yorkies which gave me a sense of confidence in the food. I've read the boards here and went to the Dog Food Rating place which basically trashed RC. RC is more expensive than Wellness, which makes me wonder if corn wasn't good for the dogs, why did they include it at all? I don't know what to think.. but a 2-star food? That's pretty bad considering it's 20$ for a 3kg bag. So I'm confused... are the folks who make RC too big to care or uneducated? Or are they perhaps well aware of how they manufactured their food, and the review of an outsider only speculates that the ingredients are not suitable (whereas RC's scientists should know what they are doing???). |
I don't really think RC is a TERRIBLE food. It's far better than any Kibbles n' Bits or Pedigree but I think it's highly over-priced for the ingredients in it, considering it's got a ton of grains which are cheap to produce. I personally wouldn't feed it but a lot of dogs do perfectly fine w/ grains and RC. I just wouldn't be willing to pay that much money for such a small bag considering I can get a 6lb bag of Innova for $12.99 (he eats Nature's Variety Instinct now which is a little more expensive but he loves it and it's wonderful ingredients, no grains). It's not something I would personally choose to feed my dog. |
If you are anything like me, the more you try to read and learn about food, the more confused that you will become. Of course a rep from RC is going to tell you that their food is best, and alot of vets will agree because they sell RC, so they too are getting a kickback! Some people love RC and others don't, my little boy loved it, unfortunatly it didn't love his tummy! You will also find that some people love Wellness and then some have had less than great experiences with it as well. I am currently in the process of trying to find a new food, and I have ordered a couple of trial size bags of Acana, which is made by Orijen. The best thing to remember is that any transition needs to be made very gradually and that what works best for someone else may not work for you at all. This forum is full of wonderful information and people who will help you out as much as possible, but it basically boils down to what works best for your baby! Jeri and Harley |
Corn isn't inherently bad, but it usually isn't a desired ingredient...definitely is not a necessary filler. Some dogs do fine with corn, but others are allergic and terribly itchy from it. The reason manufacturers use corn, lots of grains and other fillers is because they are cheap. I would choose Wellness over RC considering quality and price. |
I would suggest Wellness, partly because it's a much better quality product that RC and also because it's done wonders for Bandit. It's one of the only foods he actually likes and we haven't had as many stomach issues on it. Good luck:) |
I use to use RC but the I switched to wellness and my dogs love it. I didn't have any bad experiences with RC I just wanted to try something new. |
I use RC and even though I don't believe in those rating sites, they affect me as well. The site I read didn't actually use the ingredients RC claims to use, and also was reviewed by only one person, who actually has no credentials in dog nutrition or even human nutrition. So I try to take the review results with a grain of salt, but it's hard, when things are written on a site like that, they "seem" to be true. Some of the reviews results were given by a rating scale, giving a point for this and a point for that, as well as taking away a point for this and a point for that, this is really not good science, nor a good way to judge a food. I'm not sure why corn has gotten such a bad name, sometimes I think it's because people read things fast, and like things simple, for example you want to avoid Corn Gluten and it has little food value, but some people think this means corn. It also shouldn't be used as the main source of protein, as you may know, corn mixed with other amino acids is a protein, not a carbohydrate, but this should not be used as the main source of protein. Quote:
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Wellness Puppy was good for Max when he was a pup. Except he weighed 3 lbs then and the pieces were to big. Now he is eating a mix of Wellness Healthy Weight and Acana. He is 7 lbs and can handle the bigger food bits. I am trying to get him back down to 6 lbs. The higher protein did not work for us. But he loves the Acana. |
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I imagine corn gets it's bad rep partly from it being such a high allergen ingredient. I prefer grain-free, so I'm not a big fan of RC, but I don't think corn is inherently bad. My biggest complaint about RC using corn is not the corn, it's that they use CORN GLUTEN MEAL! :( "Corn gluten meal is the by-product after the manufacture of corn syrup or starch, and is the dried residue after the removal of the bran, germ, and starch." (Interpreting Dog Food Labels) Apparently, corn gluten meal is also used for lawn care. lol |
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I like grainfree bc it is species appropriate, as is high protein, due to the physical make-up of a dog. As carnivores, they were designed to have almost exclusively meat in their diet. I'm not saying that only grain-free foods are good though. There are some good foods that contain grains like Innova, Wellness.... |
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We have Baylee eating Wellness. She really likes it and we have never had any issues with it. And its good for her so that is an upside :D |
I feed Gizmo Life's Abundance but I have heard some good things about Wellness too. |
I do not use RC because one of the top ingredients is chicken "meal". I prefer not to feed mine anything with the term "meal" in it. As for corn, it is a carbohydrate with trace proteins. The problem arises when corn is used for the main protein,( in the top 5 on the ingredient list) as it is a vegetable protein, or an "incomplete" protein, due to the fact that it does not contain enough amino acids that are necessary for metabolism. In essence, this means that it is very difficult for your pup to digest it. The second problem with using corn as a main protein is the fact that proteins are processed in the liver and the waste materials from this process are filtered and excreted through the kidneys; both of these functions requires water to complete the process. High quality proteins such as red meat, do not generate large amounts of waste, so not a lot of stress on the liver or kidneys. On the other hand, poor quality proteins such as corn, which is difficult to digest, puts added stress on the kidneys as it generates excessive waste byproducts that need to be taken out of the liver and carried to the kidneys and then excreted, which means a lot more water must be taken in to allow this process to work correctly. When sufficient water is not present these byproducts cannot be expelled, that is where disease issues arise for our pups. In consideration, I would make sure that my pups get a quality protein that is not vegetable based. |
or you could just go home made Raw and leave all the bagged up by-product dog food behind ;) lol, i feed a home made raw diet of nothing but human grade food. it's simple, can be frozen until you need another cup of it and it's great for their teeth, skin, coat, and overall health. my aunt introduced me and we love it, her dog has eaten it for two years and has had NO tarter issues at all and Sadie has "great teeth" according to my vet. plus their breath is better smelling and you always know exactly what is in their food! if interested PM me, i'm happy to share it if you want to try it out. i firmly believe dog food manufacturers are simply using the stuff that people wont' eat and putting it into dog food. if i can't eat it, neither can my dog, that's JMO though. our raw diet was formulated by my aunt's mom a hobby nutritionist for dogs. she's made things for other dogs with allergies and this particular recipe is perfect for our babies!! |
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Currently the ARS, Agriculture Research Service, is researching technology, a biosensor-based method , which can detect these toxins in human grade foods. No testing on any pet-grade foods are in their agenda as of yet. Hope this helps. |
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Furthermore, chicken meal is considered very easy to digest. In addition, your comment on corn is a little misleading. Corn doesn't have the necessary amino acids to form a complete protein but when mixed with other proteins, does form the compete protein. You say that corn should not be used in the first 5 ingredients, this seems like some arbitrary number, why 5? From everything I've read it shouldn't be listed as the first ingredient, because that means the protein source is mainly coming from corn, and this is not satisfactory for the reasons you listed. I actually believe the way things are listed are very confusing for the average person, and they don't understand that the water content in foods can really throw off where on the list they fall. |
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In acknowledgment to your first statement, yes chicken meal does contain more protein then the chicken listed as an ingredient by itself, as you simply stated due to the fact of water content, and yes, meal is very easy to digest, especially for puppies. In answer to the question about the number 5; most kibbles at present not only add in gluten,but also starch , flour, syrup etc. of corn and various other carbohydrates. Usually you will see the main source of meat protein as the number one ingredient, and then in some kibbles, an assortment of corn or grains and their by-products. So in essence, even though the meat is labeled as the first and primary ingredient, its weight is far less than the combined next 4, when they are all by-products of corn or grains: if that makes sense to you. In nutritionist speak, "The first five" ingredients, are ones of the most nutrient dense significance, or they should be. As for corn, it is not a complete protein, however if combined with legumes , such as beans, the body can then synthesize the proteins to form a complete protein. However, as stated , this taxes not only the liver but also the kidneys due to the waste materials that are generated in the bodies processing of it. As for human grade meal, I should have stated " Human grade" for the meat used in the meal. My mistake. Most meals processed for our pups are not from human grade meat products, as we all know, they are from a whole different realm in the processing plant. HSUS states: "Currently, downed animals, as well as other condemned meat, can be used in pet foods. These meats, known as the 4-D—dead, dying, diseased or down—meats, are sent to rendering facilities, along with other offal (animal products considered unfit for human consumption) from factory farms. They are then boiled, melted, or otherwise processed to become tallow, meal, or other ingredients to be used in edible and inedible products, including pet foods." As for toxins being present after our food has been cooked, sterilized, processed etc, allow me just to say ....omg..... YES! Staphylococcus bacteria produce toxins (or poisons). While the bacteria can be killed at 120 degrees, its toxins are Heat Resistant, and remain in the food. Clostridium perfringens, more commonly known as botulism, can survive hours of processing, and not only that, but the cooking drives off oxygen, kills competitive organisms and heat-shocks the spores, all of which promote germination. vCreutzfeldt-Jacob disease , does not go away with any amount of processing, that is why the cattle are burned. And in consideration that the "downed" meat is allowed in our pets "meal" this could affect them as well. Not to mention Scrapie found in sheep, or the new Wasting Disease transmitted through deer meat. All of these are not effected by heat processing. AGE's ; Advanced Glycation End Products are formed when meat is sterilized and pasteurized, have now been linked to diabetes, kidney disease, Alzheimer's etc. These are to name but only a few, there are many, many more. Having been in academia for a Nutritional Science degree, I realize that you are absolutely correct. There are some who have but a glint of nutritional designs, and yet, they approach the field as an expert. I am by far, no expert. However, I do consider myself educated in the field, or , at least I try to be:) Hope this clarifies my opinions....... |
FYI; this is a fantastic read! Defines a lot about pet nutrition in laymans terms . Whats really in pet food? |
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Well , it appears that the majority of the references for this article came from the Journals of Veterinary Medicine, The Small Animal Nutritonal journal, and the FDA. Huh...that sounds like non-fictional science-based research to me. However, to each his own............. |
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