The Benefits Of A Prey Model Diet

[tjdmom]

Originally Posted by miss_marley

I started Marley on a raw diet over a week ago. She's been doing great, she loves it, so far I've been giving her premade chicken patties from Urban Carnivore, and a few chicken necks. When I tried her on beef patties, she threw it up.

Today I was at the grocery store, and I bought her turkey necks (which I broke into smaller chunks), chicken hearts, and chicken gizzards. I put them in the freezer to freeze for a couple days. Are these all good to give her? How often should I give the hearts and gizzards, and how many? What other things can I buy from the grocery store that's good for her?

I'm pretty new to raw too. My dogs love gizzards and hearts but I try not to give too much. One or two every other day or so. Everything I feed comes from the grocery store. Chicken breast with the bone in, drumsticks, pork, chicken feet and livers are what I've tried so far and they have done very well with it and seem to enjoy it. I'm trying to get some lamb and I also want to try fish soon as well. My collies teeth improve each day! Good luck and I hope others will post as well!

[abbie's mom]

Originally Posted by miss_marley

When I tried her on beef patties, she threw it up.

Beef is pretty strong to start with. Also, what was the fat ratio? IF you feed ground (not really a good idea) it should be LEAN. High fat content can cause tummy upset.

[miss_marley]

Originally Posted by abbie's mom

Beef is pretty strong to start with. Also, what was the fat ratio? IF you feed ground (not really a good idea) it should be LEAN. High fat content can cause tummy upset.

It was the Urban Carnivore patties, so I'm not really sure. The website says they're finely ground whole beef carcass. She had been on the chicken for a little over a week, and had virtually no problems, so I thought I would try it, but I guess it was too soon. She didn't even want to touch the beef after that first experience with it, so I got her some more of the chicken patties, she loves them. She also loves the chicken necks, so hopefully she'll like the turkey necks too. Not sure how she'll feel about the hearts or gizzards.

I sort of want to move her away from the patties a bit, as they're so expensive, and more to things from the grocery store. Are chicken wings good to give bone and all? I wasn't really sure what to get her, but I remembered reading about gizzards and hearts. What other meats are good to introduce to her?

[tjdmom]

Originally Posted by miss_marley

It was the Urban Carnivore patties, so I'm not really sure. The website says they're finely ground whole beef carcass. She had been on the chicken for a little over a week, and had virtually no problems, so I thought I would try it, but I guess it was too soon. She didn't even want to touch the beef after that first experience with it, so I got her some more of the chicken patties, she loves them. She also loves the chicken necks, so hopefully she'll like the turkey necks too. Not sure how she'll feel about the hearts or gizzards.

I sort of want to move her away from the patties a bit, as they're so expensive, and more to things from the grocery store. Are chicken wings good to give bone and all? I wasn't really sure what to get her, but I remembered reading about gizzards and hearts. What other meats are good to introduce to her?

Chicken wings are not the best as there is not much meat and a lot of bone. But I do frequently give Zoe drumsticks. Zoe absolutely loves chicken hearts. They would be an awesome training treat if they weren't so slimy. She likes gizzards too. Sometimes I have given her a bone in chicken breast but she would never eat that whole thing in one sitting. I have even cut a piece of our boneless chicken that we were having for dinner and I've given her that and she really likes it. I personally stayed with chicken for a week or so and then introduced pork and that's as far as I've gotten (it's been about 3 weeks). I plan to continue trying something new everyweek or so.

[YorkieChick1]

I started raw over 12 days ago and 3 of my dogs, the smallest ones, have nice small poops. But my 2 bigger dogs, 10 lbs, still have very slimy stinky poops. Are they still detoxing after 12 days? They have both been eating chicken drumsticks, thighs and breasts.

[abbie's mom]

Originally Posted by tjdmom

Chicken wings are not the best as there is not much meat and a lot of bone.

....... Same thing with chicken necks. No appreciable meat, and too much skin.

Originally Posted by miss_marley

The website says they're finely ground whole beef carcass.

LOL...don't ya love the non-commitment, here? "Whole beef carcass" could/probably does include hide, hair, whatever. No wonder she didn't want another experience with it.

I sort of want to move her away from the patties a bit, as they're so expensive, and more to things from the grocery store.

....sounds like a PLAN. At least buy from a source that you're sure what is in the product. Also, ground may seem like the safer route; but, actually, it may encourage a gobbler to eat more quickly, thereby being more prone to choking. Best to get whole meats that they have to work at.

What other meats are good to introduce to her?

Turkey (not necessarily necks or wings), pork, fish, lamb. Then, later....beef, rabbit, quail, goat....anything a carnivore would eat.

[miss_marley]

Thanks so much everyone for all the great information. Thinking back, I probably shouldn't have broken up the turkey necks into smaller pieces...I'm afraid she might choke now. Do you think she could eat a whole turkey neck? Would that be a full meal? She's about 9 pounds. I'm confused how much to feed when it's not the patties. If you give them something large, and they don't finish it, do you just put it back in the fridge?

I'm not going to trust the person at the pet store again, she told me to buy the chicken necks. I still have a lot left, are the ok to keep giving until they're gone? Also, are the raw bones on everything I can buy ok to eat? That concept still doesn't seem right to me as we're always told no bones (which I know is the cooked ones).

I want to keep her on the raw, and then when she goes in for her next checkup, see how the vet thinks she looks, without telling her what she eats. She's against raw, so I want her to give me an unbiased opinion.

[RawfedYorkieLuv]

Depends. How old are the bigger dogs? Assuming they were fed kibble all of their lives. The older the dog and the longer he has been exposed to the wrong diet and over-vaccinations, the longer it will take for the detox to level off. My 12 year old male (chronic systemic yeast infection) is so severely damaged that he still experiences bouts of flare ups. Meaning, he's STILL expelling his yeast toxins through his skin even after 1.5 years of raw eating and non vaccinating! But those flare ups are becoming shorter lived and are getting further in between.
"Poop patrol" is very important during the first stages of switching until all dogs have eaten everything off the "menu" and you know how each reacts. A friend of mine got her Rottweiler puppy a month ago at 7 weeks old and this dog had diarrhea for two full weeks on prey model until it was discovered that she had coccodia coming from the breeder already. But before we assume anything, implement the "tweaking" that you may have heard about in prey model circles. Meaning, you need to experiment with different approaches as all dogs are different. For example; My senior yorkie gets stopped up if he gets too much bone so I add more organ and boneless meats to his diet. My second yorkie vomits and gets the poops if she eats too much chicken skin so I take some of it off for her. My puppy LOVES tripe but if she gets too much of that.... oh boy, out come the latex gloves ! All of my dogs get stinky gas and pudding poops on pork so I make sure I only feed them lean pork cuts or the bone alone to supplement with boneless whatever pieces.
The food you're listing here sounds all great, but are they consuming all of the bones as well? Are you adding any organ meats at all yet or anything else? You might want to try removing the chicken skin for the lose stool dogs and if that doesn't firm things up for them then it might be time to go the Vet with stool samples for a fecal on worms/parasites. But before we jump to conclusions, have your dogs recently been vaccinated at all or de-wormed? Heartworm pills? Flea/tick prevention? All of those things can interfere with a dog's digestive system and are in my opinion and experience counter productive to what we're trying to achieve as raw feeders; healthy dogs!

Nadia

Originally Posted by YorkieChick1

I started raw over 12 days ago and 3 of my dogs, the smallest ones, have nice small poops. But my 2 bigger dogs, 10 lbs, still have very slimy stinky poops. Are they still detoxing after 12 days? They have both been eating chicken drumsticks, thighs and breasts.

[RawfedYorkieLuv]

The bones are a MUST HAVE for our carnivores. Dogs do not thrive on meat alone but need to have bones included in their diet, alongside organ meats.
80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organs is the preferred ratio of prey model feeding. If not for bone, where else would your dog get his/her needed calcium from? Cooked bones are bad, raw bones are good! Of course the ratios can vary a little, depending on the dog's particular needs. You needn't toss out your chicken necks but as it has been mentioned before, fed ALONE, not a very good meal as neck bones offer little meat with too much bone and skin. A turkey neck for example is rather large so I don't think a yorkie can consume it all in one sitting. You can split it into more size appropriate pieces (always aim for bigger than the dog's mouth) but I would not feed that alone. You will need to add more meat to the next meal if your dog only had the neck at a previous meal. If you feed the necks for breakfast, then feed a boneless cut of chicken or turkey at dinner. Whatever you dog cannot consume at one sitting, you put back in the fridge for the next meal. You're dog will let you know if he's still hungry. If she gets too fat, cut back the rations if she looks too skinny then feed her more. You want to be able to feel a dog's ribs, NOT see them! Weigh your dog every couple of days if you'd like so you can gauge this better.
Take your time and read through all of the previous posts. The "how much to feed" has been addressed several times and is discussed in great detail for different weights. Stay away from weight bearing bones that came from large ungulates; pretty much all beef bones are too hard and might chip a dog's teeth except for certain ribs. All poultry bones, pork bones, lamb bones; all ok to give! (I'm probably forgetting something to mention, but you get the idea)
Go to your local grocery store/meat market/butcher and see what they have on sale for under or around $1 per pound. That's how prey model is done. No need to buy any *specially packaged for pets* bones at the Pet Store!

Nadia

Originally Posted by miss_marley

Thanks so much everyone for all the great information. Thinking back, I probably shouldn't have broken up the turkey necks into smaller pieces...I'm afraid she might choke now. Do you think she could eat a whole turkey neck? Would that be a full meal? She's about 9 pounds. I'm confused how much to feed when it's not the patties. If you give them something large, and they don't finish it, do you just put it back in the fridge?

I'm not going to trust the person at the pet store again, she told me to buy the chicken necks. I still have a lot left, are the ok to keep giving until they're gone? Also, are the raw bones on everything I can buy ok to eat? That concept still doesn't seem right to me as we're always told no bones (which I know is the cooked ones).

I want to keep her on the raw, and then when she goes in for her next checkup, see how the vet thinks she looks, without telling her what she eats. She's against raw, so I want her to give me an unbiased opinion.

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[YorkieChick1]

Originally Posted by RawfedYorkieLuv

Depends. How old are the bigger dogs? Assuming they were fed kibble all of their lives. The older the dog and the longer he has been exposed to the wrong diet and over-vaccinations, the longer it will take for the detox to level off. My 12 year old male (chronic systemic yeast infection) is so severely damaged that he still experiences bouts of flare ups. Meaning, he's STILL expelling his yeast toxins through his skin even after 1.5 years of raw eating and non vaccinating! But those flare ups are becoming shorter lived and are getting further in between.
"Poop patrol" is very important during the first stages of switching until all dogs have eaten everything off the "menu" and you know how each reacts. A friend of mine got her Rottweiler puppy a month ago at 7 weeks old and this dog had diarrhea for two full weeks on prey model until it was discovered that she had coccodia coming from the breeder already. But before we assume anything, implement the "tweaking" that you may have heard about in prey model circles. Meaning, you need to experiment with different approaches as all dogs are different. For example; My senior yorkie gets stopped up if he gets too much bone so I add more organ and boneless meats to his diet. My second yorkie vomits and gets the poops if she eats too much chicken skin so I take some of it off for her. My puppy LOVES tripe but if she gets too much of that.... oh boy, out come the latex gloves ! All of my dogs get stinky gas and pudding poops on pork so I make sure I only feed them lean pork cuts or the bone alone to supplement with boneless whatever pieces.
The food you're listing here sounds all great, but are they consuming all of the bones as well? Are you adding any organ meats at all yet or anything else? You might want to try removing the chicken skin for the lose stool dogs and if that doesn't firm things up for them then it might be time to go the Vet with stool samples for a fecal on worms/parasites. But before we jump to conclusions, have your dogs recently been vaccinated at all or de-wormed? Heartworm pills? Flea/tick prevention? All of those things can interfere with a dog's digestive system and are in my opinion and experience counter productive to what we're trying to achieve as raw feeders; healthy dogs!

Nadia

My bigger dogs are Mindy, 12 years old and Cushings' disease, yeasty ears and Booboo, 7 yrs old and good health. Both dogs were on Innova kibble before this and homecooking. Both of them only get Rabies shots every 3 years, no other vaccines or heartworm or flea medicine, no other meds. I have been taking the skin off for all the dogs right now and both Mindy and Booboo have been eating all the bone in their nightly meals. I guess I just have to wait it out. They are not having any blood in their stools, just mucousy poop so maybe their systems have more to detox! Thanks for the advice and guidance, I appreciate it!!

[abbie's mom]

Originally Posted by miss_marley

If you give them something large, and they don't finish it, do you just put it back in the fridge?

You can (I do) even refreeze it. This practice not advisable for your family, of course; but, dogs are not people

[AngelWorks]

Quick update.

The cats are catching on, slowly, but they're getting there.

The dogs are both doing fab and they're teeth are so sparkling, not even funny!

I finally stopped obsessing over the raw boogies----for goddess sake: I handle raw meat every night for our dinners!!

DOH

I also stopped mopping up Milos face, about a week ago and guess what?

We're all still alive!!!

[tortoisekeeper]

I have been feeding raw chicken legs, gizzards and livers for the last 2 weeks. They are doing great. I tried pork necks today but so far they haven't touched it.

[RawfedYorkieLuv]

That's a great update! I'm so happy to hear another success story on prey model! My friend has switched her cats to raw and all three of them went on hunger strike for 2 full days before they finally ate it.
After doing this for a while, everybody eventually stops obsessing over the handling of the meats! I was no exception in the beginning and used to run myself ragged trying to keep the dogs "sanitized", lol. Now it's just a natural part of every day life for us.

I saw my neighbors unload a bag of supermarket k*bble from their truck the other day and I couldn't help but feel sorry for the poor dogs that will have to eat that!
I'm hoping that the "what food are you feeding" conversation will come up with them at some point!

Originally Posted by AngelWorks

Quick update.

The cats are catching on, slowly, but they're getting there.

The dogs are both doing fab and they're teeth are so sparkling, not even funny!

I finally stopped obsessing over the raw boogies----for goddess sake: I handle raw meat every night for our dinners!!

DOH

I also stopped mopping up Milos face, about a week ago and guess what?

We're all still alive!!!

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[RawfedYorkieLuv]

Great! Please apologize if I missed this but I think you're new to this thread!? If you are, then glad to see yet somebody else making the switch for a species appropriate diet!!!
Sometimes dogs will refuse a certain type of meat if they're new to it. Just keep offering it and as always, with each new protein source, watch out for the poop. Fatty pork causes gas and runny poops in my oldest dog but many other dogs don't seem affected.

Nadia

Originally Posted by tortoisekeeper

I have been feeding raw chicken legs, gizzards and livers for the last 2 weeks. They are doing great. I tried pork necks today but so far they haven't touched it.

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