The Benefits Of A Prey Model Diet

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by gzarr

Thank you both so much for the replies on the yeast issues. I, too, like Nadia considered whether Dozer's life was even pleasant enough to continue. The chronic ear problems, itching, chewing paws till bleeding...and all the crying!!! (Him and me). You're probably right in that he's systemic with the yeast. It's a guarantee that an ear problem will surface every 5 months or so; sooner if we don't keep the enzyme in his ears the vet gave us.

So what is Fluconazole? How's it work? No, we haven't done the skin scraping, fungal tests...but isn't yeast a fungas?

About the vaccinating--we don't immunize our children, but I thought it's law to vaccinate your animals.

Dozer HAS seen certain improvements now he's been on total raw diet. But is it possible that he could also be allergic to a certain type of animal (Cow, deer, etc.) on top of a yeasty system?

You're welcome . Actually, w/ such a chronic problem - I'm a little shocked your vet hasn't done cultures. I mean, it's always best to confirm what's going on and what the actual bug is. Also, there are many different types of yeast - and some are more resistant than others. Are you comfortable your vet has really given this the attention it needs? And why haven't probiotics been suggested, I wonder? Those are essential for recovery from yeast, esp. if systemic yeast is suspected.

Fluconazole is used in humans and dogs for treatment of yeast. You'd probably want a suspension formulated if your dog is small - otherwise pills if a small enough dosage can be found. Since this could be a chronic problem, I'd want to give it 2x daily for at least 2-3 weeks. And, if it is indeed yeast - add a probiotic asap.

You also mentioned he smells bad - this could also indicate yeast, but seborrhea should be ruled out as well. Really, I can't recommend highly enough that you get an absolute diagnosis through a culture - otherwise, how does one really know what they're treating?

He could be allergic to food, yes, but that would be so tough to tell w/ what you have going on here. The more common meat allergens are beef and chicken; other more common food allergens are soy, corn, wheat, egg etcetera.

Keep us posted, I really hope you can find a solution!

[gzarr]

[quote=Wylie's Mom;2536511]You're welcome . Actually, w/ such a chronic problem - I'm a little shocked your vet hasn't done cultures. I mean, it's always best to confirm what's going on and what the actual bug is. Also, there are many different types of yeast - and some are more resistant than others. Are you comfortable your vet has really given this the attention it needs? And why haven't probiotics been suggested, I wonder? Those are essential for recovery from yeast, esp. if systemic yeast is suspected.


I just wanted to let you know that after your last suggestion I found Dozer a really good probiotic called Florify. It has 5 billion count acidoph. and bifidus. You'd have to eat 80 oz. of yogurt to get the equivilent count. Dozer has been on it for about a week and the swelling in his ear has almost completely gone. He isn't scratching or shaking his ears, his paw chewing has dramatically cut down and there is less and less brown crud coming out of his ears during cleaning. I have been cleaning them with a mixture of alcohol and tea tree oil-or aka melaleuca oil- (which is anti-bacterial and anti-fungal). He's really improving and I hope it continues to get better!

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by gzarr

I just wanted to let you know that after your last suggestion I found Dozer a really good probiotic called Florify. It has 5 billion count acidoph. and bifidus. You'd have to eat 80 oz. of yogurt to get the equivilent count. Dozer has been on it for about a week and the swelling in his ear has almost completely gone. He isn't scratching or shaking his ears, his paw chewing has dramatically cut down and there is less and less brown crud coming out of his ears during cleaning. I have been cleaning them with a mixture of alcohol and tea tree oil-or aka melaleuca oil- (which is anti-bacterial and anti-fungal). He's really improving and I hope it continues to get better!

Oh yay!!! That is so great to hear! I wonder if it's yeast then. I use probios for my guys and I use this one: Nature's Farmacy - Store - Product Details

It's excellent and has 5 species. SO HAPPY to hear of the improvement.

[AngelWorks]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Oh yay!!! That is so great to hear! I wonder if it's yeast then. I use probios for my guys and I use this one: Nature's Farmacy - Store - Product Details

It's excellent and has 5 species. SO HAPPY to hear of the improvement.

It says 1/4 tsp per 25 lbs--- how much for 7-8 lbs?

Would like to start using this.

TY!

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by AngelWorks

It says 1/4 tsp per 25 lbs--- how much for 7-8 lbs?

Would like to start using this.

TY!

That would be roughly 2/3rd of an 1/8th teaspoon - so it's probably a good, fat "pinch". I put mine in a metal spice shaker (not glass, as light is bad) and shake it from there, once I got the "appearance" of the right dose. This stuff lasts FOREVER, btw.

[AngelWorks]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

That would be roughly 2/3rd of an 1/8th teaspoon - so it's probably a good, fat "pinch". I put mine in a metal spice shaker (not glass, as light is bad) and shake it from there, once I got the "appearance" of the right dose. This stuff lasts FOREVER, btw.

Okay-- that makes sense and no kidding, probably enough for forever!

[Sweetlips6]

Bonnie (7 mo) has a rash on her left armpit area. It has been on going since I got her at 14 wks. She also has several itchy spots (one about 2 in. above her tail) that won't go away. I have decided to try raw feeding. I switched her from royal cainan to wellness no grain kibble. When she finishes this bag I am going to stop feeding kibble (maybe).
I got a package of chicken legs. She ate them ok, but does not try to eat the bone. If I am reading right, she needs to eat 10% bone, right? So how do I encourage her to eat the bone.

I have been a little worried about starting raw now, because I will be gone for 2 weeks in June. The first week she will be boarded at the Vet's office. I found the NV raw medallions yesterday, so I got a package of chicken. I think I may start out with this first, as it is more convenient for the people that will be feeding her while I am gone. My question is: The NV says to feed 4-5 medallions for a 10 lb dog. Bonnie is 5 lbs, so she will be getting 2-2.5 each day. Should I feed 1 in the morning and 1 at night with a small amt of kibble left out in the day. Or all at night or morning with kibble for other meal? Thanks

[Babz]

Hi there.

Try feeding bone-in breasts instead of any other bone in. Chicken breast bones are very easy to eat. Even my dogs who have been on raw since October takes 30 minutes or more to finish a drumstick. Don't worry about percentages at first, you feed her lots of meat for now, some bone to firm up the poop, and nothing else. Don't even switch meats for a few weeks - let her get used to it. Chicken is the most bland and easiest meat to digest, beef is one of the hardest. I personally love to feed pork, but that will come in time for you.

I would prefer to pack my own ground meat and bone rather than feeding NV, but that's me.

What are your worries in feeding raw? I had plenty and once I switched I never looked back. I recommend you to join the rawfeeding group in yahoo, if you're really interested in switching. Lots of experienced and very helpful people there - you'll learn so much.

Why would you still feed kibble if you've already decided to feed raw? This was, you won't know which is causing the problems and all that.

To tell you the truth, I would bet a lot that once you've fed unenchanced raw meat and bones for a few weeks that rash would clear up.

[Sweetlips6]

Thanks for your reply. I am worried about starting raw because she will have to be boarded at the vets office for a week while I am gone on vacation and I think I can get them to feed NV, but not raw meat. I will have to ask how they feel on the subject.

I am of course scared of her eating bones, chicken bones in particular, as I have heard all my life to never give a dog chicken bones.
I do want to do what is best for my pet.

I am having a hard time figuring out how much to feed her. She weighs 5 lbs, and I know she need 2-3% of her ideal body weight, so that would be 10-15 ozs, right? Does that include the weight of the bone too? No I see that that is wrong. 15 oz is almost 20% of her body weight- someone hefp me out. Thanks

[Babz]

Ok, I am very bad with ounces and lbs, but let me tell you how much I feed my Mocha.

Mocha is 2 kg or 4.4 lbs. That means I feed her about 60-80 grams a day. 3-4% of her adult body weight EVERY day. Not every meal, that much, every day. When I started out I fed her almost 120 grams per day. She was going at it like she's never tasted food before. But these percentages are very much just guidelines. You feed according to the dog, if she gets chubby/roly you feed less, if she gets too thin on the ribs you feed more. We'll get to the "how to tell if she's chubby or thin" later on, for now what's important is for you to get started, and for her to get used to eating raw.

By my calculation you should be feeding 80-100 grams a day. I don't know how much that is in ounces.

If you have to board her then do so, but if you are on the raw track, you might want to look for a rawfeeding tolerant vet for next time. Or look for a better option that will not mind to feed raw - you will be surprised at your options in america. I urge you to join the rawfeeding list, boardings and traveling options gets discussed all the time.

Please do not worry about RAW chicken bones - they are the softest bones out there, and our dogs are fully equipped to eat consume and digest bones, it's what they are supposed to eat anyways! I feed pork ribs too sometimes, they LOVE it. They will rip all the meat off and gnaw on the bone for quite some time - until mean mommy takes it away from them Beware that we don't feed beef bones of any kinds - to dogs of any size. It's too hard for them, might crack their canines. The logic is we don't feed anything they can't catch in the wild. Btw, just to let you know, my dogs never had any problems eating bones whatsoever.

Okay! Any other questions? Please join this group as soon as you can, they're very helpful!
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/messages

Love, Babz.

[tjdmom]

Originally Posted by Babz

Ok, I am very bad with ounces and lbs, but let me tell you how much I feed my Mocha.

Mocha is 2 kg or 4.4 lbs. That means I feed her about 60-80 grams a day. 3-4% of her adult body weight EVERY day. Not every meal, that much, every day. When I started out I fed her almost 120 grams per day. She was going at it like she's never tasted food before. But these percentages are very much just guidelines. You feed according to the dog, if she gets chubby/roly you feed less, if she gets too thin on the ribs you feed more. We'll get to the "how to tell if she's chubby or thin" later on, for now what's important is for you to get started, and for her to get used to eating raw.

By my calculation you should be feeding 80-100 grams a day. I don't know how much that is in ounces.

If you have to board her then do so, but if you are on the raw track, you might want to look for a rawfeeding tolerant vet for next time. Or look for a better option that will not mind to feed raw - you will be surprised at your options in america. I urge you to join the rawfeeding list, boardings and traveling options gets discussed all the time.

Please do not worry about RAW chicken bones - they are the softest bones out there, and our dogs are fully equipped to eat consume and digest bones, it's what they are supposed to eat anyways! I feed pork ribs too sometimes, they LOVE it. They will rip all the meat off and gnaw on the bone for quite some time - until mean mommy takes it away from them Beware that we don't feed beef bones of any kinds - to dogs of any size. It's too hard for them, might crack their canines. The logic is we don't feed anything they can't catch in the wild. Btw, just to let you know, my dogs never had any problems eating bones whatsoever.

Okay! Any other questions? Please join this group as soon as you can, they're very helpful!
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/messages

Love, Babz.

Babz is giving you great advice! I've been feeding Prey Model Raw for a year now! It's easier than ever - and cheaper too once you know what you're doing!
Good luck! Theresa

[gzarr]

I have to update you on a couple things.

1. Dozer's ear infection is completely gone from giving him probiotics for 2 weeks. A $13 bottle has resolved what hundreds of $ from the vet couldn't for years. Awesome! I'm just going to keep him on permanently.

2. I started playing softball the other day on a new team and one of the ladies works at a local vet office. She said to have her on speed dial in case of any questions. So, of couse, I asked, "So what's your opinion on the raw food diet?" It was probably a loaded question, but I hadn't talked to any vets about their thoughts yet. She responds, "Do your dogs eat it? I suppose so. Well, WOULD YOU EAT IT?" I had to laugh! That's not even comparing apples to apples! You are talking about two different species with two different needs and systems! Would we eat what what a snake, fly or lion eat? It doesn't even make sense! She then asks if our dogs have diahrreaha and I said no that they have small black poop that turns white and turns to dust in a couple days. She made a snide remark like that WAS diahrreaha or a parasite or something and laughed.

Anyways, I just was blown away by how off people can be and I had to vent. I know that vets aren't taught nutrition in school and they are sponsered by kibble companies, but why can't they just see the logic of it? If you think about raw, it totally makes sense! I wanted to ask her what in the heck did dogs eat before humans came in and 'saved them' with kibble? How on earth could they even survive??? (That's sarcasm).

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by gzarr

I have to update you on a couple things.

1. Dozer's ear infection is completely gone from giving him probiotics for 2 weeks. A $13 bottle has resolved what hundreds of $ from the vet couldn't for years. Awesome! I'm just going to keep him on permanently.

2. I started playing softball the other day on a new team and one of the ladies works at a local vet office. She said to have her on speed dial in case of any questions. So, of couse, I asked, "So what's your opinion on the raw food diet?" It was probably a loaded question, but I hadn't talked to any vets about their thoughts yet. She responds, "Do your dogs eat it? I suppose so. Well, WOULD YOU EAT IT?" I had to laugh! That's not even comparing apples to apples! You are talking about two different species with two different needs and systems! Would we eat what what a snake, fly or lion eat? It doesn't even make sense! She then asks if our dogs have diahrreaha and I said no that they have small black poop that turns white and turns to dust in a couple days. She made a snide remark like that WAS diahrreaha or a parasite or something and laughed.

Anyways, I just was blown away by how off people can be and I had to vent. I know that vets aren't taught nutrition in school and they are sponsered by kibble companies, but why can't they just see the logic of it? If you think about raw, it totally makes sense! I wanted to ask her what in the heck did dogs eat before humans came in and 'saved them' with kibble? How on earth could they even survive??? (That's sarcasm).

On the first part - YAY!!! So, are you using the Dogzymes Dig. Enhancer - did you end up getting that one? I love that stuff.

On the second part...sigh...I know. It used to get super-duper confrontational here (at YT) and nasty here in threads about raw, and now it's mostly supportive (whether people agree or not) which is so nice.

Kibble has been around for, what, 69 years now or so? And let's see, wolves have roamed the earth for 1 million years, and North America for 750,000 years? And there is virtually no evolution in the dogs' systems other than some dentition crowding - which makes sense given all the cross breeding. So......while kibble isn't "bad"...I certainly do think we have valid reasons to believe feeding raw can be beneficial to a canine.

[Michmill]

Chewie hasnt gotten better from the Enzymes. He has been on them since February. I have noticed a slight change. He doesnt itch as much and so hes not scratching and making lots of sores. But the gray darkening skin is spreading. It now covers the tops of his front feet, His entire back and is moving onto the top of his head. He still has the odor too if I dont bath him every few days with medicated shampoo. The ears are just plain ugly. lol. I would like to try this Fluconazole. Where do I get it? I see places online that say you dont need a prescription but that doesnt mean anything and asking a vet for it is really hard since they wanna diagnose and they just keep telling me he has allergies or dry skin....

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Michmill

Chewie hasnt gotten better from the Enzymes. He has been on them since February. I have noticed a slight change. He doesnt itch as much and so hes not scratching and making lots of sores. But the gray darkening skin is spreading. It now covers the tops of his front feet, His entire back and is moving onto the top of his head. He still has the odor too if I dont bath him every few days with medicated shampoo. The ears are just plain ugly. lol. I would like to try this Fluconazole. Where do I get it? I see places online that say you dont need a prescription but that doesnt mean anything and asking a vet for it is really hard since they wanna diagnose and they just keep telling me he has allergies or dry skin....

I'm not sure if enzymes would help your situation. Probiotics can help w/ yeast though - is that what you're referring to w/ the enzymes?

As for the 2nd part, I would not give Fluconazole without getting an actual diagnosis. I highly recommend you see a Vet Dermatologist - it will cost more for the office call, but you will get a diagnosis. Are you in Texas? This is the practice I went to here in AZ, and they do have an office in TX - Dermatology Clinic for Animals - click on Office Locations. If nothing else, call them and ask for Vet Derm referral in your area. Your baby truly needs a specialist.