To dock or not to dock???

[kezza]

* Bump* Am i allowed to do that? lol...just think this thread is so interesting..would like to see more views!

[Yorkie_Love]

Originally Posted by kezza

* Bump* Am i allowed to do that? lol...just think this thread is so interesting..would like to see more views!

Glad you bumped, I was gonna if you didnt!!! Hehe. I think this thread is interesting too!

[kezza]

Originally Posted by Yorkie_Love

Glad you bumped, I was gonna if you didnt!!! Hehe. I think this thread is interesting too!

HeHe...it's just that the threads move so fast on here...alot of members miss threads.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by kezza

But don't you think if it was banned and eventually accepted that it would then stop uneducated breeders butchering their puppies causing suffering and in some cases even death?...this has to be stopped...if the Top Dogs were being shown with their tail intact these 'breeders' wouldn't feel the need to make THEIR puppies 'more pleasing to the eye' so they would be more attractive to potential buyers..
It's similiar to BYB and puppymills imo.. supply and demand...people want the tiny yorkies..the BYB breed tiny yorkies like mad to make the money..people want the docked tail..so they will be doing it themselves rather than taking them to a vet which will cost them..with disastrous consequences in some cases..

I just haven't heard of that many breeders butchering the tails. I've heard a lot more stories of botched ear cropping, but never hear anything about tails. I've never even heard of a dog dieing from a tail dock. Not saying it hasn't happened, but I've never heard of it. Docking the tail is extremely easy with the hardest part being docking it to the correct length for the breed. I just don't see how too many people could mess up a tail dock..it's just too easy to do it correctly. That's why so many breeders do it themselves instead of taking them to a vet...it's easy and quick. Ear cropping, however, must be done by a vet I believe... I'm sorry but I just won't ever get used to seeing yorkies with full tails...I just really like the docked look, and no one is going to change my mind. I just do not like the undocked tails...I'm sorry, but I don't....I really think it messes up the neat appearance of the yorkshire terrier. And most tails are so skinny...they can be broken very easily, and I believe tails getting broken happens much more often than tail docking gone wrong. I'd rather have a newborn puppy's tail docked when it barely feels it than for an adult's tail to be broken. Docking is just not at all cruel in my opinion...in fact, I think it saves the dog from hurting its tail later on in life.

[kezza]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

I just haven't heard of that many breeders butchering the tails. I've heard a lot more stories of botched ear cropping, but never hear anything about tails. I've never even heard of a dog dieing from a tail dock. Not saying it hasn't happened, but I've never heard of it. Docking the tail is extremely easy with the hardest part being docking it to the correct length for the breed. I just don't see how too many people could mess up a tail dock..it's just too easy to do it correctly. That's why so many breeders do it themselves instead of taking them to a vet...it's easy and quick. Ear cropping, however, must be done by a vet I believe... I'm sorry but I just won't ever get used to seeing yorkies with full tails...I just really like the docked look, and no one is going to change my mind. I just do not like the undocked tails...I'm sorry, but I don't....I really think it messes up the neat appearance of the yorkshire terrier. And most tails are so skinny...they can be broken very easily, and I believe tails getting broken happens much more often than tail docking gone wrong. I'd rather have a newborn puppy's tail docked when it barely feels it than for an adult's tail to be broken. Docking is just not at all cruel in my opinion...in fact, I think it saves the dog from hurting its tail later on in life.

If you look at the Advocates for Animals website i posted earlier in this thread it shows evidence of bad tail docking and the sad case of 11 puppies that died due to their tails being cut off with a Stanley Knife..even cases of people trying to dock Adult dogs tails!! these barbaric acts would not happen if Tail Docking were banned.

You say that tails should be docked to prevent injury later in life..most dogs go through life without tail injury..legs can be broken later in life too but we are not amputating them in case of injury..wild dogs, foxes, wolves are canine and go through life perfectly well with an intact tail.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by kezza

If you look at the Advocates for Animals website i posted earlier in this thread it shows evidence of bad tail docking and the sad case of 11 puppies that died due to their tails being cut off with a Stanley Knife..even cases of people trying to dock Adult dogs tails!! these barbaric acts would not happen if Tail Docking were banned.

You say that tails should be docked to prevent injury later in life..most dogs go through life without tail injury..legs can be broken later in life too but we are not amputating them in case of injury..wild dogs, foxes, wolves are canine and go through life perfectly well with an intact tail.

Like I said, tail docking is so easy...for someone to mess it up so bad to kill 11 puppies would seriously take someone of lower mentality.. There are a few methods to dock tails, and I've seen two ways. I've seen the clamp (with hemostat) and twist method (not bloody at all), and I've seen the tail cut off and stitched (a little bloody but not bad at all). I just can't imagine how someone could mess that up so bad to kill a whole litter of dogs... So far as people docking adult dogs themselves, I'm pretty positive that is considered animal cruelty just like it would be cropping the ears yourself. With an adult, it becomes a surgical procedure, which requires a licensed vet to do it.

I saw a report about incidence of tails breaking and how it has gone up quite a bit since docking was outlawed...I remember reading it on a past thread on YT. The tail would break much easier than a leg and has a lot higher risk of getting caught in something, especially with the skinny tail of the Yorkie.

[kezza]

The tail is a very important indicator of the mood of the dog and is easily seen from some distance away Thus a dog with a tail is able to express its emotional state, assertion of social status,acceptance of a subordinate or equal position, or willingness to fight. It has been suggested that the absence of a tail may, in some instances, predispose a dog to unwarranted aggression.

[kezza]

Just wanted to say though Myfairlacy..that i appreciate your opinions on this subject..and its nice too be able to discuss it in an adult way without it getting silly and heated...

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by kezza

The tail is a very important indicator of the mood of the dog and is easily seen from some distance away Thus a dog with a tail is able to express its emotional state, assertion of social status,acceptance of a subordinate or equal position, or willingness to fight. It has been suggested that the absence of a tail may, in some instances, predispose a dog to unwarranted aggression.

There are many other things to look at...body position, ears, eyes, mouth. And the tail hasn't been completely removed..it is docked to a medium length so you can still see tail position on a docked yorkshire terrier.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by kezza

Just wanted to say though Myfairlacy..that i appreciate your opinions on this subject..and its nice too be able to discuss it in an adult way without it getting silly and heated...

LOL I'm stubborn... I just really prefer a docked tail and really do not believe it is cruel (I've seen many tail docks done with my own eyes). So I'm just not going to change my mind.

But I realize that members from countries where it has been made illegal are going to feel differently. That's fine with me. I just don't want my right infringed on since I live in a country where it is still allowed

[MyFairLacy]

Oh..I meant to say that I think it's just an "agree to disagree" subject.

[kezza]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

Oh..I meant to say that I think it's just an "agree to disagree" subject.

Oh definately..it's always going to be a controversial subject!
Do you think it is likely to be banned in the US at some point? from what i can gather more and more people are turning against it now.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by kezza

Oh definately..it's always going to be a controversial subject!
Do you think it is likely to be banned in the US at some point? from what i can gather more and more people are turning against it now.

Maybe...I haven't heard of it trying to be passed yet though. I think there will be a big fight against it if it happens. Well, I'm sure there would be plenty of people for and against it. Docking seems to be generally accepted over here...I haven't really heard of people trying to get it outlawed

[kezza]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

There are many other things to look at...body position, ears, eyes, mouth. And the tail hasn't been completely removed..it is docked to a medium length so you can still see tail position on a docked yorkshire terrier.

They are not always docked to a medium length either..alot of members on here have said their yorkies tails have been docked far too short..another example of breeders doing a bad job of it.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by kezza

They are not always docked to a medium length either..alot of members on here have said their yorkies tails have been docked far too short..another example of breeders doing a bad job of it.

You are right...many vets and breeders dock them too short. Rylie doesn't have much of a tail at all...just a nub, and I really don't like the way it looks at all. I LOVE Lacy's tail though, and the tails in the show ring. I don't see too many tails cut completely off like a rottie would have...but most are docked slightly shorter than you'd see in the show ring. Like I said, getting the correct length is the hardest part about docking tails