About to give up on raw diet - HELP!

[Franceen]

Hi everyone

I have been changing to raw, as you may have read in my other posts. I am having problems. Tootsy is having upset tummies and vomiting. She seems fine on raw beef but will not eat her raw organ meat. She will eat them cooked but refuses to eat them raw. She refuses to eat chicken raw. I waited all day until she was really hungry before giving her some raw chicken but she would not eat it. I had the same result with the rabbit. I gave her raw fish today and she vomited. It seems the only thing that agrees with her is chopped raw beef and I would be happy to just give her this, but I am told that she HAS to eat raw organ meat with it. I am feeling very guilty about upsetting her tummy so much. Should I stop now? Can you give me some advice please.

Luv

Franceen

[Wylie's Mom]

I so admire you for sticking to the prey model, bc I know it is so good for them. But maybe, to give her system a rest, you could buy the pre-made raw. The pre-made I use, Natures Variety, already has the organ meat, bone etc. in the meat. It may be easier on her tummy - which at this point, is probably priority.

If the vomiting continues (and diarrhea), I'd do a week of cooked white fish and potato (mashed/cooked), then start over.

[Franceen]

Thanks for the reply, Wylie's mom. I haven't seen the pre-made raw in the UK. I will have a look online and make quite sure it is not available.

I think I will have to give her a break from the raw, as you suggest. I am a bit worried about all the tummy upsets. It can't be good for her.

Luv

Franceen xxx

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Franceen

Thanks for the reply, Wylie's mom. I haven't seen the pre-made raw in the UK. I will have a look online and make quite sure it is not available.

Oh, blast. So no Nature's Variety, Primal...? Well, you could even just stick w/ whatever will agree w/ her tummy for now (beef). Have you tried lamb chops? Also, you could PM AbbiesMom - she is VERY smart about prey model and so helpful. Did you try the Raw group on Yahoo too? I'm so sorry you're going through this - it is so frustrating when you're trying to make a positive change and then this happens. Hang in there, it'll get better.

[Franceen]

I had a look on some UK dog food sites and they do not have these brands. As I say, she is fine on raw chopped beef, but won't eat the organ meat raw. I am told that she must do this, so I suppose I have to stop feeding the raw beef. She does have a very sensitive tummy.

Thanks for all the suggestions - much appreciated.

Luv

Franceen xx

[Ellie May]

I'm probably not the right person to answer this because I do not like the raw diet at all but oh well.

Although it can be debated that food borne illness is not common in dogs, the fact is it still happens. There are no figures on how many dogs have died from eating raw meat, but there have been some. The risk of this happening may not be high UNLESS the dog has a compromised immune system. I will not be the judge of whether a dog's immune system is in any way compromised because that is near impossible. It is a risk that I would rather not take.

That being said, symptoms of food poisoning can include vomiting and diarrhea. This isn't diagnosed often in animals and one of the reasons is it is not often tested for because it is expensive. So the only advice I can give is to cook the meat and supplement. It is safer and healthier in MY opinion (and everyone is entitled to their own ).

[Mere_de_Jambo]

Here are a few I found that are pre-made frozen available in UK:

http://www.naturesmenu.co.uk/products/frozen/

http://www.prizechoice.co.uk/products/mincedmeats/

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Although it can be debated that food borne illness is not common in dogs, the fact is it still happens.

Crystal is correct - though incidence of food poisoning in dogs is extremely low - and in fact usually seen only in immuno-compromised dogs - it can happen.

Is there any chance your dog has something going on concurrently?

[Franceen]

Thanks for the replies and for the links to raw food in the UK. I had a look at those foods. They don't mention any bone being added so I guess I must add some meaty bones to these meals. They are not organic, of course, and I have been feeding her all organic meat. It is hard to give her the non-organic now. My meat comes from an excellent source and all the meat is traceable.

She has had a tummy upset which she was treated for recently. She was put onto antibiotics and she quickly recovered. As soon as I went back to the raw diet the tummy problems began once more. Her poops are very dark in color - is this normal on a raw diet? She has not eaten anything else today since vomiting up the fish. I am hesitant to give her anything, but may try a small amount of raw beef, as I know she does not get ill when I give her this. I don't like her going without food for so long.

Thanks for the help, everyone.

Luv

Franceen xxx

[Franceen]

Oh I meant to reply to your question about the lamb chops, Wylie's Mom. Unfortunately, she is allergic to lamb. So, yet another meat she cannot tolerate, poor little girl

Luv

Franceen

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by Franceen

Thanks for the replies and for the links to raw food in the UK. I had a look at those foods. They don't mention any bone being added so I guess I must add some meaty bones to these meals. They are not organic, of course, and I have been feeding her all organic meat. It is hard to give her the non-organic now. My meat comes from an excellent source and all the meat is traceable.

She has had a tummy upset which she was treated for recently. She was put onto antibiotics and she quickly recovered. As soon as I went back to the raw diet the tummy problems began once more. Her poops are very dark in color - is this normal on a raw diet? She has not eaten anything else today since vomiting up the fish. I am hesitant to give her anything, but may try a small amount of raw beef, as I know she does not get ill when I give her this. I don't like her going without food for so long.

Thanks for the help, everyone.

Luv

Franceen xxx

Lacy's poop is usually a lighter yellowish-brown color. I've heard some raw-fed dogs have very light or even white poop

[dexterandalana]

i am just starting out on a raw diet for dexter also...if you are feeding just the beef maybe feed an egg with shell also? someone correct me if im wrong, but i thought i read that if you can feed bone to suppliment with egg shell....dexter loves tham anyway!

as myfairlacy said above, dexters poops are almost white now that im feeding raw and others ive talked to say the same thing. if your babies is very dark, there may be an underlying problem..

i hope you get some help on this. i know none of us like to see our babies with upset tummies

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by dexterandalana

i am just starting out on a raw diet for dexter also...if you are feeding just the beef maybe feed an egg with shell also? someone correct me if im wrong, but i thought i read that if you can feed bone to suppliment with egg shell....dexter loves tham anyway!

as myfairlacy said above, dexters poops are almost white now that im feeding raw and others ive talked to say the same thing. if your babies is very dark, there may be an underlying problem..

i hope you get some help on this. i know none of us like to see our babies with upset tummies

I know a lot of homecookers use egg shells, but they crush them up into a fine powder. I've never done the eggs (although the NV medallions have eggs in them). I think I read somewhere that in the wild a dog would eat a freshly-layed egg (if it got ahold of one)...the shell is much softer in a fresh egg, whereas it is harder (and sharper) in the eggs we buy from the store. Carnivores have a special tough lining in their stomach and first part of their intestines because of the bones they ingest, but egg shells are pretty thin and sharp

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Franceen

She has had a tummy upset which she was treated for recently. She was put onto antibiotics and she quickly recovered. As soon as I went back to the raw diet the tummy problems began once more. Her poops are very dark in color - is this normal on a raw diet? She has not eaten anything else today since vomiting up the fish. I am hesitant to give her anything, but may try a small amount of raw beef, as I know she does not get ill when I give her this. I don't like her going without food for so long.

Franceen - there is another thread going on about raw and another prey model feeder, "Omega", said "don't introduce organ meats too soon" bc it can cause runny poos. So, you may want to PM Omega about that info.

Also, the dark poos seem odd to me. Mine are on raw - their poos are very light, have white patches (from calcium) and turn powdery. I don't think your baby's poos should be really dark. What was she on antibiotics for specifically? I wonder if they should do a stool test maybe? Just a thought.

Anyway, maybe Omega can help with prey model questions. Either way, sounds like her system may need to rest/balance for a while. Hope everything gets better.

[Julie1760]

I would not worry about the organ meat. If you do want to add it, do it in very small amounts to start. I agree on the poops being dark isn't quite normal, unless the dog isn't getting enough bone/calcium in the diet. The raw fed yahoo group is fantastic to get lots of help on the prey model feeding.

I also feed the Natures Variety frozen. I've also used the BARF brand and my girls both love it.

My bichon does throw up if I feed her just the raw...so if I mix it with some kibble, she does fine.