About to give up on raw diet - HELP!

[hha]

I still think giving raw chicken is very dangerous, mine only get it baked and the little ones get one piece of it a night, and the 2 outside dogs get about 10 pieces in with their food...I remember giving my old golden retriever some hamburger meat one night(it was even cooked), and when I got up the next morning she had had diarrhea all over my carpet...I still don't feel this is good for them..maybe years ago, before dogs became domesticated..

[jeanietoo]

Very dark stools can indicate belleding in the digestive tract

[Franceen]

Thanks so much for all the helpful replies. I have gone back to the cooked food until her tummy settles. I hate 'chopping and changing' like this as I know that this, in itself, can upset her tummy. But, I do know that she doesn't react to cooked food and it is more important to get her tummy settled and try again at a later time.

Jeanietoo, this is what I am worried about and now that you have said it, I am going to make an appointment with the vet to make quite sure that this is not the case. I wanted to see if anyone else came to that conclusion as I am not sure about the color of poops in the raw fed dog or a dog on antibiotics.
Does lack of calcium give such dark poops because she hasn't had any bone, as yet, as I haven't found a suitable source. They are usually too big to give her to chew on. I also haven't yet bought the calcium powder and must do this asap.

Wylies Mom, she was on antibiotics because she had eaten something nasty on the beach and it had upset her tummy. She is always doing this and clamps her jaw shut and whips her head around if you try and get it out of her mouth. If you continue to try and prize her jaws open, she just swallows it! I ordered a muzzle for her to stop this problem, and to control her aggression towards other dogs, but the one they sent does not fit well. I will have to send it back and try a different make. When I took her to the vet, she said it was colitis, but gave her antibiotics just in case. Well the antibiotics worked a treat, so it obviously was something nasty she had eaten on the beach.

I will have a look at Omega's posts and see what she said and possibly pm her, if necessary.

The thing is, she does so well on just raw beef. Her tummy is normal and she seems happy to eat it. She does seem to want a lot of it, though, and I think I will have to bulk it our with something or I will go bankrupt. She can eat three quarters of a pound of meat in a day!! I give her the best quality organic beef so it is not cheap! She has three meals a day as she is such a hungry little dog. Any advice about this? I cannot give her vegetables as the vet says they will upset her sensitive tummy.

Hha, don't worry I am not giving her any more raw chicken, as I have now realized that this is upsetting her tummy as well. I do understand your fears as I felt the same. ( I wasn't giving her supermarket chicken. It was from an excellent farm, which has very high standards of care for their poultry and animals. Their meat is all traceable and their chicken flocks checked regularly for salmonella.)

Thanks again, everyone.

Luv

Franceen xx

[Franceen]

An update:

I took Tootsy to the vet this morning as we were up all night with her. She had a rumbling tummy and kept swallowing saliva. You could see she was unwell. She couldn't sleep and we sat up with her and rocked her.

The vet examined her thoroughly and said the dark poops may be a little blood as a result of all the diarrhoea, but that Tootsy is definitely not anaemic and she has not lost any weight. She says I am causing all this upset by trying out all these foods! 'I am killing her with kindness'. She said that I must ONLY give her boiled chicken and rice and absolutely nothing else. No vegetables. She would prefer me to use a good quality canned food with all the vitamins etc added to it, but if I am determined to feed her myself I must stick to the chicken and rice plus a nutritional supplement. She says that Tootsy is a very highly strung dog and will be prone to digestive upsets as a result. She says that rabbit is too rich for her even though she appears to cope with it well. I cannot use any gravies or any flavourings, just the boiled chicken and rice. My poor baby is used to different meals and hates the same thing over and over. Oh well, I am now so concerned about her that I will do as the vet says for 6 weeks. She says after six weeks, if she is 100% well, she will allow me to try 1 teaspoon of a new meat and see how she reacts.

She has given her another course of antibiotics, just in case, as the last course worked so well.

Thanks for all the advice I have been given - it really has been appreciated. I want, so much to do the best for my little girl, but I cannot keep upsetting her like this anymore.

Luv

Franceen xx

[Ellie May]

Six weeks on chicken and rice only?
I don't know about that. Maybe two weeks and then add some green beans in. I wouldn't let Ellie go six weeks without veggies. My opinion only... I'm not saying it would hurt, but it is important to me that Ellie eats them.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Franceen

I want, so much to do the best for my little girl, but I cannot keep upsetting her like this anymore.

You are doing the best for her - look at how hard you try to find out what is best for her nutritionally, or by taking her to the vet, or by seeking advice etcetera! She couldn't ask for a better Mum!

So glad you were able to see the vet. I agree with the vet's opinion of giving her system a rest - but, you could also give white fish (it is actually easier on the system even than chicken) - like tilapia, sole, pollock, whiting, cod, trout etcetera - and it would provide variety. Extended use of chicken can be a bit risky in terms of allergies. Also, after a stint of digestive upset - it is very important to alkalize the system - and one of the easiest ways to do this is to steam then puree green beans and give about 1T per meal.

Other things that could help: digestive enzymes, probiotics, notatum. I have used an animal nutritionist (by telephone consult) here in the States - and I know she has done internat'l consults as well. She works for a vet practice in California and is very, very good. If you ever want to consult w/ her, here is her website: www.askariel.com. She was a lifesaver for my Marcel.

[Franceen]

Aah, thank you Wylie's Mom for your sweet comments! The vet very kindly said that our dog is very lucky indeed to have such caring owners, which also gave me a boost. I really need these boosts at the moment as I feel I am to blame for all her upsets.

I am also not terribly happy with just the plain chicken and rice for so long. I will have a look at that link you sent me and see what she charges. I really would like specialized advice. I asked the vet for the name of a good nutritionist but she said it is not necessary!!

Thanks, too, for your reply, Ellie May. I feel the same way you do. It am so confused.

Luv

Franceen. xxx

[omega]

If and when you go back to raw, forget the organ meats for at least two months. Then when you add them, use chicken organs - they are easier on the system than beef organs.

Once her tummy problems have settled down, give her the kind of meat she likes the best for awhile. You don't need the variety right away.

I hope she does ok.

[mbfleur]

Hi,

If your yorkie's having problems, perhaps the pure raw diet (especially organ meats and chicken) simply doesn't agree with its stomach?

Although I think dogs would appreciate a more "natural" diet, in my opinion, it would be rather rigid to force a dog to eat what it doesn't like to eat... even to the point of illness and vomiting. You wouldn't be that rigid with a child about eating spinach... especially after running several fevers and upset stomachs. Perhaps there's bacteria in the packaged spinach or the deep freeze spinach didn't quite stay cold all the time...

Feeding raw is all very nice, but you have to be sure of your food supply. Does the meat come from a freshly butchered animal from the local butcher... or from a plastic container from a meat processing plant that has butchered the animals a while ago and packaged the meat? Was it deep frozen? With today's food industry, I wouldn't trust most meats raw.

If your little one is having problems, did you give it a transition period? (mixedraw and cooked?) so that its stomach could get used to the raw food?

To be honest, if my dog had an upset stommach from raw foods, I would switch to other solutions. Forcing the dog to stick to a textbook diet should not be the goal. The goal is a happy well-nourished dog... even if that means adjusting the textbook.

Good luck.

Mbfleur

[Franceen]

Originally Posted by mbfleur

Hi,

If your yorkie's having problems, perhaps the pure raw diet (especially organ meats and chicken) simply doesn't agree with its stomach?

Although I think dogs would appreciate a more "natural" diet, in my opinion, it would be rather rigid to force a dog to eat what it doesn't like to eat... even to the point of illness and vomiting. You wouldn't be that rigid with a child about eating spinach... especially after running several fevers and upset stomachs. Perhaps there's bacteria in the packaged spinach or the deep freeze spinach didn't quite stay cold all the time...

Feeding raw is all very nice, but you have to be sure of your food supply. Does the meat come from a freshly butchered animal from the local butcher... or from a plastic container from a meat processing plant that has butchered the animals a while ago and packaged the meat? Was it deep frozen? With today's food industry, I wouldn't trust most meats raw.

If your little one is having problems, did you give it a transition period? (mixedraw and cooked?) so that its stomach could get used to the raw food?

To be honest, if my dog had an upset stommach from raw foods, I would switch to other solutions. Forcing the dog to stick to a textbook diet should not be the goal. The goal is a happy well-nourished dog... even if that means adjusting the textbook.

Good luck.

Mbfleur

Thanks for your reply. I agree with what you are saying. I wanted to give the raw diet a really good try before giving it up. I assure you that I won't force her to eat what she doesn't want.

To answer your questions:

I have made sure that the meat I give her comes from a good source. The farm I deal with has an excellent reputation and the meat is all organic and never frozen. It is delivered fresh to my door and is always top quality. I did give Tootsy supermarket fish. It was frozen fish and I know now that I made a mistake giving her this to eat. I feel awful about it.

My freezer is new and is a Bosch Freezer. It has an alarm to let you know if the temperature ever goes low. So far, we have been very pleased with it and have had no problems.

I did change over to raw without a transition period of mixing cooked and raw. I was told that the raw diet is the only one where you do not have a transition period. I started her on beef and she was fine on this. The problems started when I tried lamb, chicken, etc. These upset her. I didn't think it a good idea to just stick to beef, which is why I tried the other meats. She can digest the rabbit which is good. Another problem I have is that she won't eat the organ meat raw which, I am told, is important in the raw diet. When she had diarrhoea, I switched back to cooked chicken and rice until it cleared. I am thinking that all the chopping and changing from raw to cooked is upsetting, in itself.

I am giving the whole thing a lot of thought and I am going to read up some more and see what I think. I will not allow her to continue to be ill, that I can assure you. If she has to eat cooked food, then so be it. The trouble is, she has not been well on that either! She has a lot of sensitivities, which I am now aware of and can cut out of her diet in future. The complicated part is working out if it's the raw or cooked that causes the least upset to her digestion. It gets confusing at times. Wylie's Mom has told me of an excellent animal nutritionist she has used and I am seriously thinking of consulting her. It would be great to have someone, who knows what they are doing, helping me sort out the best diet possible for my precious baby. There is only one problem that I can foresee and that is the postage on the supplements she will recommend for Tootsy. The cost of postage to the UK is very high and I would probably pay the same in postage as for the supplements themselves. The costs could end up being prohibitive. I had a look at Holistic animal nutritionists in the UK and there are none in my area and none in other areas willing to treat by phone or email. The nearest one is much too far from us, in another County. I will have to see how the costs of the one Wylie's Mom recommended works out.

Luv

Franceen

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Franceen

Wylie's Mom has told me of an excellent animal nutritionist she has used and I am seriously thinking of consulting her. It would be great to have someone, who knows what they are doing, helping me sort out the best diet possible for my precious baby. There is only one problem that I can foresee and that is the postage on the supplements she will recommend for Tootsy. The cost of postage to the UK is very high and I would probably pay the same in postage as for the supplements themselves. The costs could end up being prohibitive. I had a look at Holistic animal nutritionists in the UK and there are none in my area and none in other areas willing to treat by phone or email. The nearest one is much too far from us, in another County. I will have to see how the costs of the one Wylie's Mom recommended works out.

Hey Franceen! I would definitely tell Susan (nutritionist) of the concerns about cost - bc she will find a way to make it work. I only bought, I think, 2 things from her (or maybe 1). I already had digestive enzymes and probiotics on hand (you can easily get those in the UK, just be picky about the probiotic). You could also ask Susan to just start w/ diet and move forward from there - I guess it really all depends. If you do talk to her, write down all of the history beforehand (food, health, etc) bc she'll ask about that. She can also help you get back to the raw.

If you talk to her, tell her hi from Marcel!

[Franceen]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Hey Franceen! I would definitely tell Susan (nutritionist) of the concerns about cost - bc she will find a way to make it work. I only bought, I think, 2 things from her (or maybe 1). I already had digestive enzymes and probiotics on hand (you can easily get those in the UK, just be picky about the probiotic). You could also ask Susan to just start w/ diet and move forward from there - I guess it really all depends. If you do talk to her, write down all of the history beforehand (food, health, etc) bc she'll ask about that. She can also help you get back to the raw.

If you talk to her, tell her hi from Marcel!

That's great, Marcel, I will do that - I didn't think she would be happy about using UK products. It's also good to know that she is not against the raw and can give me guidance as to whether it could be a possible diet for Tootsy.

I feel encouraged now! Thanks.

Luv

Yvonne.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Franceen

That's great, Marcel, I will do that - I didn't think she would be happy about using UK products. It's also good to know that she is not against the raw and can give me guidance as to whether it could be a possible diet for Tootsy.

LOL, I should have clarified - Marcel is my little guy who she helped (my avatar). You can tell her hi from him AND me (Ann). (And I just called you Franceen - is it Yvonne? oops)

[Franceen]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

LOL, I should have clarified - Marcel is my little guy who she helped (my avatar). You can tell her hi from him AND me (Ann). (And I just called you Franceen - is it Yvonne? oops)

I KEEP getting names wrong on this forum - it's embarrassing!! Sorry! Yes, I am Yvonne.

Luv

Yvonne xxx

[omega]

Originally Posted by Franceen

I KEEP getting names wrong on this forum - it's embarrassing!! Sorry! Yes, I am Yvonne.

Luv

Yvonne xxx

So is Franceen you dog then?

I get names mixed up too. It's hard not to with so many posters here on YT.