Why so many cases of Luxating Patellas? - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

kezza · 01-31-2008, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcerella02

from what i know... LP tends to be an acute thing... they run.. it pops out... it hurts... sometimes it goes back in... but i could be wrong... it hink your little pup is just pooped out

Well i hope thats all it is...we did around 2 miles that day! she was enjoying herself so much i didn't think for a second that she might be doing too much!

lisatodd · 01-31-2008, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcerella02

it is not all poor breeding.. neither of Layla's parents have LP... it's just the nature of the beast... why do so many large dogs have hip problems.. goes with the breed... please don't make it sound like it is the breeder fault.. maybe some are but Layla came from a very responsible breeder and yet she still ahs stage one in her back leg... just the way it went.

not all is poor breeding but MOST is. it can be caused by jumping but for most cases, it's breeding. i know a girl (not my friend but a friend of a friend )RIGHT NOW who's puppies are due next week and the mother has LP.
each one of those puppies will have a high risk of having this.

marcerella02 · 01-31-2008, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLC

It can come from generations back

LP - means that the Patella (knee cap) is Luxating (sliding in and out) of it's resting place "the groove"

That 'groove' can be shallow and NOT have the patella luxating...YET

So, the parents can have a shallow groove, but just by luck, the ligements that are holding the patella in place are very strong for them - thus, showing NO Luxating Patella - BUT still having the genetic makeup for the Patellas to be able to Luxate - Get it?

oh

ya... i get it... that's crappy... so if a breeder doens't have the grandparents.. how can they be sure?

TLC · 01-31-2008, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcerella02

oh

ya... i get it... that's crappy... so if a breeder doens't have the grandparents.. how can they be sure?

It is crappy. And b/c there is SOOOOOOOOO much of 'bad breeding' it really seems very hard to not have this in the lines.

It's a loose/loose situation

very sad

Ellie May · 01-31-2008, 10:44 AM

Bad breeding is usually the problem. The bloodlines need to be checked for it just like liver shunt.

DENISE517 · 01-31-2008, 10:53 AM

Ok...I didn't start this thread to start anything so please keep it as an information thread please......don't make it a controversal thing.

here is what i found on a website?

What causes luxating patella?

Occasionally it's caused by an injury, but in the absence of such proof, the weak tendons and/or shallow kneecap groove of luxating patella is considered hereditary. Never breed a Yorkie with any degree of luxation (even a "wiggly" knee), whether it has been repaired or not. Fixing the knee doesn't fix the genes that caused the problem.

OFA Certification
The Orthopedic Foundation of America will issue registration numbers to dogs whose patellas have been x-rayed by a vet, forwarded to the OFA, and found to be normal. This condition is so common in Yorkies that we believe it is essential that all breeders start doing these x-rays before breeding. Then you will be able to INSIST on seeing the OFA certificate for each parent before buying a Yorkie puppy. It will be one more way to pick out the responsible breeders from the rest of the pack.

MyFairLacy · 01-31-2008, 10:54 AM

LP in toy breeds is mostly due to genetics, with very few cases being soley due to injury alone. It is all too common unfortunately. And just because it is so common doesn't mean nothing can be done about it or that it "just happens" in our toy dogs. The reason it is so common is because most breeders do not screen their dogs - they breed dogs with LP and with a history of LP in their lines...it doesn't matter if a dog is only a grade 1 - it should not be bred. LP may not be life-threatening, but it can be very painful for the dog and an expensive and traumatic surgery. Breeders have got to step up and start screening their dogs...and I mean actually having a specialist clear the dog...not just a regular vet check-up...and then any dog with signs of LP should NOT be bred...any dog that has a history of LP somewhere in its lines really should NOT be bred. What I also don't understand is why most reputable yorkie breeders don't submit results to the OFA...I looked on their website last night and only recognized a couple kennel names...I think it's important to get patellas OFA cleared. If breeders would start being more responsible, we could reduce the incidence of LP drastically. Screening parents may not 100% guarantee puppies will be free of LP, but it can lower the risks dramatically.

MyFairLacy · 01-31-2008, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DENISE517

Ok...I didn't start this thread to start anything so please keep it as an information thread please......don't make it a controversal thing.

here is what i found on a website?

What causes luxating patella?

Occasionally it's caused by an injury, but in the absence of such proof, the weak tendons and/or shallow kneecap groove of luxating patella is considered hereditary. Never breed a Yorkie with any degree of luxation (even a "wiggly" knee), whether it has been repaired or not. Fixing the knee doesn't fix the genes that caused the problem.

OFA Certification
The Orthopedic Foundation of America will issue registration numbers to dogs whose patellas have been x-rayed by a vet, forwarded to the OFA, and found to be normal. This condition is so common in Yorkies that we believe it is essential that all breeders start doing these x-rays before breeding. Then you will be able to INSIST on seeing the OFA certificate for each parent before buying a Yorkie puppy. It will be one more way to pick out the responsible breeders from the rest of the pack.

Excellent info...and basically what I just said above. Breeders need to get patellas OFA cleared

DENISE517 · 01-31-2008, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisatodd

not all is poor breeding but MOST is. it can be caused by jumping but for most cases, it's breeding. i know a girl (not my friend but a friend of a friend )RIGHT NOW who's puppies are due next week and the mother has LP.
each one of those puppies will have a high risk of having this.

Aww that's really sad that she bread knowing the momma had it...

TLC · 01-31-2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DENISE517

Ok...I didn't start this thread to start anything so please keep it as an information thread please......don't make it a controversal thing.

here is what i found on a website?

What causes luxating patella?

Occasionally it's caused by an injury, but in the absence of such proof, the weak tendons and/or shallow kneecap groove of luxating patella is considered hereditary. Never breed a Yorkie with any degree of luxation (even a "wiggly" knee), whether it has been repaired or not. Fixing the knee doesn't fix the genes that caused the problem.

OFA Certification
The Orthopedic Foundation of America will issue registration numbers to dogs whose patellas have been x-rayed by a vet, forwarded to the OFA, and found to be normal. This condition is so common in Yorkies that we believe it is essential that all breeders start doing these x-rays before breeding. Then you will be able to INSIST on seeing the OFA certificate for each parent before buying a Yorkie puppy. It will be one more way to pick out the responsible breeders from the rest of the pack.

Yup! That's exactly what I found 2.5 years ago when Roxy was first diagnosed with LP and her breeder gave me the song and dance of how none of her dogs have it or ever produced dogs with it.

But that's exactly what people need to know.

The reason why LP is genetic is b/c of the make up of their bone structures. The 'shallow groove' and if it is shallow enough, at some point, whether it be from a jump off the coach to just a simple walk around the block, that shallow groove COULD allow the patella to luxate.

Most patellas DO NOT luxate from birth (although in extreme cases it does), that's why people think 'it's not genetic'. But you have to make your self understand what LP is all about. In large breeds, there bone structure are very strong and they usually have very deep grooves that their patella rest in and stay there. When LP occurs in the large breeds it's b/c they took a pretty massive 'blow' to that area, literally blowing the knee cap right out of its resting place in that deep groove.

With the small breeds, most of them have the genetic makeup that gives them a 'shallow groove' (poor breeding) - so they can go through a lot or a little of there life with their patellas in place, but since their groove in shallow, one wrong move allows that patella to luxate.

I hope I am making sense

Ladymom · 01-31-2008, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcerella02

oh

ya... i get it... that's crappy... so if a breeder doens't have the grandparents.. how can they be sure?

That's why it's so important to choose a breeder who knows what's way back in her lines and carefully screens all her potential breeding dogs for health and genetic issues.

Having the grandparents wouldn't necessarily be a plus. A reputable breeder carefully selects the ideal mate to bring out the strengths and minimize the weaknesses of a particular dog.

The sales term "parents on premises" can be a red flag, not a plus. It can mean that the breeder is just haphazardly breeding her females to her male because he is physically able to impregnate her, not with any careful study of genetics.

Breeders can get their dog's knees certified by the Orthopedic Foundation of America. Many large breed clubs require that hips be OFA certified prior to breeding. It's a shame that toy dog breed organizations don't require it, too.

You can do a search here and see all the Yorkies who have been cleared by the OFA:

http://www.offa.org/index.html

nikkinack · 01-31-2008, 11:16 AM

LP I think is something vets should inform you more about Lily would not be having all her problems if I was more informed. Lily has NO groves for her knee cap and her tendons have been doing all the work up to this point but all the running and jumping has stressed them and she is going to have surgery. LP can be caught from day one if it is a grove problem because the vet can feel for the grove by pushing on the knee or so I am told

bbrewser · 01-31-2008, 11:34 AM

I am assuming that since both parents can be *fine*, they could still carry a recessive gene for LP. Does OFA do any typr of genetic testing to determine the recessive genes as well? Would it be feasible to have all AKC registered dogs(yorkies) genetic typed?

Connie · 01-31-2008, 11:40 AM

Great thread, Denise, and I think everyone will be interested in learning more about LP. Libby has grade 2 LP and I am giving her Flexicose which is a liquid glucosamine complex, in hopes of keeping it from getting worse and relieving any pain. Here is the site: http://www.flexicose.com/ I just noticed, while doing a search, that I can get it cheaper on Ebay, so I'll buy it there next time. I also take Flexicose and notice a huge relief in my joints and also give it to Maddie. She doesn't have a problem, but I want to keep it that way. My vet also told me to keep Libby skinny, and then she'll have a much better chance of it not getting worse.

When Libby was first diagnosed, she had done it while jumping off a chair. She had problems for the next week or so...when she'd run, she'd let out a yelp from pain and she'd hold up her leg quite often and limp when walking on all four. She's been good since then except for once, and I notice that the cold bothers her and she begins limping. We keep an area of the grass shoveled for them to potty in, but Libby...she just HAS to walk through the deep snow to do her thing. LOL

Libby gets lots of exercise in the house, and in the sping/summer/fall, I try to walk her each day. I could be wrong, but I think it's good to walk them and strengthen the muscle and ligaments around the knee. At least that's what I was told when I had a knee injury...so I figure that would hold true for dogs too. I don't walk her if she's hurting, but as long as she's showing no signs of distress, I'll keep exercising her.

I also feel so bad for everyone having to deal with LP in their babies. I feel fortunate that Libby's is only a 2 and I'm hoping and praying to keep it that way. Hugs to all of you who are having to deal with LP surgery.

txshopper73 · 01-31-2008, 11:42 AM

Only a vet studying x-rays can determine if it is due to hereditary issues or environmental issues. I am so sick of people that automatically blame breeders when something goes wrong with their dog.

If you let your dog jump off of things, or get too fat, you can expect that some will have problems with their knees.

Many breeders no longer will cover LPs because of environmental issues. Do you realize that it only takes one jump/twist to injure a knee? Once a pup/dog leaves the breeder's home, they do not know what kind of environment the dog lives in. They do not know what the new owners allow their dogs to do.

Don't be so quick to judge a breeder and say that LPs are all their fault!

JMO

01-31-2008, 10:44 AM	#20
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	Bad breeding is usually the problem. The bloodlines need to be checked for it just like liver shunt. __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

01-31-2008, 10:54 AM	#22
MyFairLacy Donating YT 10K Club Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 11,003	LP in toy breeds is mostly due to genetics, with very few cases being soley due to injury alone. It is all too common unfortunately. And just because it is so common doesn't mean nothing can be done about it or that it "just happens" in our toy dogs. The reason it is so common is because most breeders do not screen their dogs - they breed dogs with LP and with a history of LP in their lines...it doesn't matter if a dog is only a grade 1 - it should not be bred. LP may not be life-threatening, but it can be very painful for the dog and an expensive and traumatic surgery. Breeders have got to step up and start screening their dogs...and I mean actually having a specialist clear the dog...not just a regular vet check-up...and then any dog with signs of LP should NOT be bred...any dog that has a history of LP somewhere in its lines really should NOT be bred. What I also don't understand is why most reputable yorkie breeders don't submit results to the OFA...I looked on their website last night and only recognized a couple kennel names...I think it's important to get patellas OFA cleared. If breeders would start being more responsible, we could reduce the incidence of LP drastically. Screening parents may not 100% guarantee puppies will be free of LP, but it can lower the risks dramatically. __________________ ~Magnifique Yorkies~ Purchasing from backyard breeders, pet shops, and puppymills perpetuates the suffering of other dogs. Educate yourself and buy from reputable breeders or rescue.

01-31-2008, 11:16 AM	#27
nikkinack YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Mid Michigan Posts: 1,510	LP I think is something vets should inform you more about Lily would not be having all her problems if I was more informed. Lily has NO groves for her knee cap and her tendons have been doing all the work up to this point but all the running and jumping has stressed them and she is going to have surgery. LP can be caught from day one if it is a grove problem because the vet can feel for the grove by pushing on the knee or so I am told __________________ Member of Petite Pups United and Spoiled Rotten Club Proud member of the CrAzYcLuB

01-31-2008, 11:40 AM	#29
Connie Loved by Maddie & Libby Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: North Dakota Posts: 10,732	Great thread, Denise, and I think everyone will be interested in learning more about LP. Libby has grade 2 LP and I am giving her Flexicose which is a liquid glucosamine complex, in hopes of keeping it from getting worse and relieving any pain. Here is the site: http://www.flexicose.com/ I just noticed, while doing a search, that I can get it cheaper on Ebay, so I'll buy it there next time. I also take Flexicose and notice a huge relief in my joints and also give it to Maddie. She doesn't have a problem, but I want to keep it that way. My vet also told me to keep Libby skinny, and then she'll have a much better chance of it not getting worse. When Libby was first diagnosed, she had done it while jumping off a chair. She had problems for the next week or so...when she'd run, she'd let out a yelp from pain and she'd hold up her leg quite often and limp when walking on all four. She's been good since then except for once, and I notice that the cold bothers her and she begins limping. We keep an area of the grass shoveled for them to potty in, but Libby...she just HAS to walk through the deep snow to do her thing. LOL Libby gets lots of exercise in the house, and in the sping/summer/fall, I try to walk her each day. I could be wrong, but I think it's good to walk them and strengthen the muscle and ligaments around the knee. At least that's what I was told when I had a knee injury...so I figure that would hold true for dogs too. I don't walk her if she's hurting, but as long as she's showing no signs of distress, I'll keep exercising her. I also feel so bad for everyone having to deal with LP in their babies. I feel fortunate that Libby's is only a 2 and I'm hoping and praying to keep it that way. Hugs to all of you who are having to deal with LP surgery. __________________ Custom doggie dresses and vests Memory is a country where I can go to see your face - but where do I go when I miss your embrace?

01-31-2008, 11:42 AM	#30
txshopper73 Donating YT 14K Club Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 14,226 Blog Entries: 1	Only a vet studying x-rays can determine if it is due to hereditary issues or environmental issues. I am so sick of people that automatically blame breeders when something goes wrong with their dog. If you let your dog jump off of things, or get too fat, you can expect that some will have problems with their knees. Many breeders no longer will cover LPs because of environmental issues. Do you realize that it only takes one jump/twist to injure a knee? Once a pup/dog leaves the breeder's home, they do not know what kind of environment the dog lives in. They do not know what the new owners allow their dogs to do. Don't be so quick to judge a breeder and say that LPs are all their fault! JMO __________________ As always...JMO (Just My Opinion) Kimberley

01-31-2008, 10:53 AM	#21
DENISE517 No Longer a Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: INDIANA Posts: 4,449	Ok...I didn't start this thread to start anything so please keep it as an information thread please......don't make it a controversal thing. here is what i found on a website? What causes luxating patella? Occasionally it's caused by an injury, but in the absence of such proof, the weak tendons and/or shallow kneecap groove of luxating patella is considered hereditary. Never breed a Yorkie with any degree of luxation (even a "wiggly" knee), whether it has been repaired or not. Fixing the knee doesn't fix the genes that caused the problem. OFA Certification The Orthopedic Foundation of America will issue registration numbers to dogs whose patellas have been x-rayed by a vet, forwarded to the OFA, and found to be normal. This condition is so common in Yorkies that we believe it is essential that all breeders start doing these x-rays before breeding. Then you will be able to INSIST on seeing the OFA certificate for each parent before buying a Yorkie puppy. It will be one more way to pick out the responsible breeders from the rest of the pack.

01-31-2008, 11:34 AM	#28
bbrewser Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 162	I am assuming that since both parents can be fine, they could still carry a recessive gene for LP. Does OFA do any typr of genetic testing to determine the recessive genes as well? Would it be feasible to have all AKC registered dogs(yorkies) genetic typed?