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[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by abbie's mom

Agreed. Human interference with over-vaccinating surely has compromised immune systems in the domesticated dog, resulting in a host of diseases and conditions not suffered by their cousins, the wolf.

Among other things, it was suggested earlier that the diseases and parasites often found in raw meat would only harm dogs with weakened immunes systems. If we know their systems--immune and other--are compromised by vaccinations and then again by mass breeding...see what I mean? And how are we to be sure that their bodies chemistry (including digestive enzymes) are not off balance as a result as well? Just things to ponder...

Originally Posted by abbie's mom

Do they survive on manmade food-like substance? Obviously.

Thing is...the domestic dogs on average are living longer than their wild cousins with all raw diets.

Originally Posted by abbie's mom

However, compromised immune systems and weak teeth have not changed their digestive systems into something that is suddenly (kibble/commercial dog 'food' has only been around about 70 years) more apt to processing ingredience in 'domestic' manmade commercially produced food-like substance: grains, carbs, sugar, plastics, and diseased animals (which, given a choice, the dog would not eat) found in kibble/canned.

I don't think anyone made that claim. I'm not saying that kibble is better, but honestly either one is being exposed to goodness only knows what during processing and packaging. You aren't going to get either that is completely 'untainted.' Human grade foods are not safe from being recalled either.
Honestly, I understand the reasoning behind the theory for feeding a raw diet, but for every source claiming them to be beneficial, you can find an equally credible source claiming the opposite. It all comes down to what you feel is best for your dog(s) individually and it is especially important to examine their individual needs as what is good for one may not be good for the next. (I can attest to that!)

Originally Posted by abbie's mom

Humans survive this way too, in captivity.

Captivity?!? I don't know about you, but I prefer to think of myself as one of those 'free range' humans.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I like debating with all of you but somehow I don't think we are convincing each other...

Nah, not trying to convince anyone of anything or 'bring them to the other side,' just trying to get some info on another option and point of view and share my thoughts in the process.

[lara2913]

Here is Indy's GE thread- http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=105239

In those pix, I see a VERY healthy and happy little girl. Beautiful coat, stunning clear eyes and just overall in fantastic condition. Before RAW, she had sores on her body because her skin was so dry, flakey and irritated, she had tear stains streaming down her face, she was a mess, this was after feeding even the best commercial foods, home cooking and doing endless tests. That is why I feed RAW.

I am not going to start repeating myself as you are all asking questions that I have already answered elsewhere in the thread (re- what types of bones are safe etc).

Its worth remembering guys, that those of us who are promoting RAW on here are people who are actually feeding it, every single day, people who have seen how their dogs have benefitted to hugely from it. I don't see anyone who has fed it, coming on here and putting it down, do you? Whereas no offence, but those of you putting it down are people who have never fed it, posting any link or myth that you can find to make out that what we are doing is wrong. The only thing I have to do to confirm to me that i'm doing the right thing is look at my healthy, happy dogs.

I will be getting off now, we are moving tomorrow so i'm very busy. Hope you all have a great day

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by abbie's mom

True. We can theorize until the proverbial cows come in; but, I (for one) feed RAW, because it saved my Mozart's life. THAT I did not get from someone else's opinions, books, or research studies. I'm living it.

Then you have obviously made the best choice for your dog. I have one that is living proof that the high end, 6 star, all natural marketed commercial foods aren't always best as they nearly killed one of mine.

I am interested in knowing more about the situation with Mozart and how raw saved him, if you don't mind...

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by abbie's mom

Hi Ellie May,

If you're looking for basic existence, it's at least a better choice than commercial dog stuff. If you're looking for the optimum diet for your canine pet, cooking kills most of the nutritional value, thereby making it more difficult for your dog to use it efficiently. He may have to eat more because he is hungry, thus becoming more prone to obesity, diabetes and heart disease.

JMO

That is why I use supplements. She isn't allowed to eat more than I put out for her. Yes, she is hungry all the time but who know why she asks for food? It is probably because she likes eating it. She is skinny and has been skinny all her life, so no worries there.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by lara2913

Its worth remembering guys, that those of us who are promoting RAW on here are people who are actually feeding it, every single day, people who have seen how their dogs have benefitted to hugely from it. I don't see anyone who has fed it, coming on here and putting it down, do you? Whereas no offence, but those of you putting it down are people who have never fed it, posting any link or myth that you can find to make out that what we are doing is wrong. The only thing I have to do to confirm to me that i'm doing the right thing is look at my healthy, happy dogs.

No one was putting it down, no more than I have seen the cooked/kibble preferences put down...just trying to get info and discuss things that we don't understand. No one has said what you are doing is wrong or tried to post or provide to discredit any of you, just to offer differing points of view and information. You don't have to agree with it.
Thank you for your input on the subject. If you are happy with it and feel that you have made the best choice for your dogs, then you probably have. At this point I feel the same way about the homecooked/kibble/supplements that I feed mine who are also happy healthy dogs.

Good luck w/ your move!

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

She isn't allowed to eat more than I put out for her. Yes, she is hungry all the time but who know why she asks for food?

I know what you mean! I have one that will eat everything in sight if it means she gets more than the others. She wasn't like that until we brought in our newest addition. The first time we tired to feed them altogether, she gobbled her food, then everyone elses and litterally ate until she couldn't walk and threw up. We don't make that mistake now!

[abbie's mom]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I am interested in knowing more about the situation with Mozart and how raw saved him, if you don't mind...

Certainly .

My Mozart is a mix. His sire was a champion Silky that kept escaping and getting to the mixed dame (Maltese/Shih-tzu) up the street. Anyway, he's always had tummy issues, and we tried all the higher "quality" commercial dog stuff on the market. As he aged, the condition got progressively worse, until, in his eighth year he was throwing up every day. I'm not talking *gack* (spit up a little) - this was wretching from his toenails. I felt so helpless. Sooooo, the vet put him on a super duper Rx brand. Still wretching. So, I dropped all kibble/commercial and went to homecooking. Boiled chicken, rice, oatmeal, carrots were his main menu. Makes me shudder, now! LOL Well, that was not much better - still wretching. By now, the vet wants to do exploratory surgery.

I don't recall how I heard about prey model feeding; but, I found the group online that I've referred to here, before, and started reading. I was impressed that these people had nothing to sell - just talking about what they have experienced in their own lives with pets. I did not feel comfortable with letting Mo go through "exploratory surgery" unless it was a very last resort. I started the RAWfeeding, and prayed (a lot!). I will say, that with him, it was not an easy switch. He didn't eat for three days, and I cried every one of those days. The routine went something like this: I offer chicken quarter, he sniffs his disdain, looks at me like "why do you hate me, mom?" and walks away. The group encouraged me not to give up on him, and the fact that I had literally tried every other avenue, so had nothing to go back to, kept my resolve. Every day, I would send a sob post: "He's still not eating", and getting really pretty worried. He was already weakened from what he'd been through, and he wasn't a pup anymore. But, my boy can be very, very stubborn! On the morning of the fourth day, we had our mealtime 'ritual', and I - not being able to take it anymore - came in to write our farewell post:

"Thanks everyone for your support; but, I just cannot do this to him anymore...",

when I heard an odd noise coming from the kitchen. I ran to get him out of the trash (again), and found him EATING the chicken leg!!

*Tears of Joyful relief*.

[BamaFan121s]

Aww...I'm so glad things worked out for you both. They can be such stubborn little buggers!

[abbie's mom]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Aww...I'm so glad things worked out for you both. They can be such stubborn little buggers!

Thanks, me tooo!

Yes, some more stubborn than others! I confess to our rough beginnings with RAW, because some dogs don't recognize raw meat as a food source for awhile. Their systems are accustomed to the grains, carbs, etc (or cooked) of their past. Abigail took to it right off, at 8 weeks .

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by abbie's mom

Abigail took to it right off, at 8 weeks .

Wow...that's kind of a shock...most pups haven't been weaned that long at 8 weeks! I would have thought they'd need to have received their de-worming before eating a raw meat, or do you feel the freezing would eliminate the risk of parasitic infection efficiently enough?
I guess I'm just very concerned about that as I have seen first hand what it can do to a dog...perhaps overly concerned, to be honest.

[lara2913]

I know of breeders who wean their pups straight onto raw. Some of the healthiest pups i've ever seen.

I have already posted links about parasite concerns, are you just going to keep parotting yourself? Honestly you have no need to be 'concerned' about something you know next to nothing about.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by lara2913

I have already posted links about parasite concerns, are you just going to keep parotting yourself? Honestly you have no need to be 'concerned' about something you know next to nothing about.

Geez...excuse me for having a civil conversation with someone and trying to learn something new. I didn't mean to offend you by listening to opinions other than just yours and the one of the individual who wrote what you posted. (You posted links to one site, written by one person, that was quite one sided...I just wanted to find out more than that.)
We weren't all born knowing everything about dogs or their diets, we all had to learn somewhere, right? How better than to get info from people who are already having success with it and are knowledgeable on the subject? If you feel like you've offered an explanation, then sobeit, but what harm is it doing that some of us continued with the conversation. Again, thanks for your input and time to offer some info--it was appreciated.

[lara2913]

Sorry, I guess it just gets annoying when you have to answer the same questions over and over again.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by lara2913

Sorry, I guess it just gets annoying when you have to answer the same questions over and over again.

Then don't answer them. There seem to be many different answers and opinions to the same question. I have been interested in and have appreciated hearing all of them.
If something that has already been addressed comes up again and the same question is asked again, it isn't to discredit what someone else already offered, it's to get another point of view.