Raw Diet - Info Needed

[dabrat76]

For those that have been having trouble getting their pups to take to the raw, here's a little tip that's worked for me (so far!). SoCo decided to starve himself yesterday. All of a sudden he'd just sniff and walk away. After trying (and wasting) 2 pieces of chicken at 12:30 a.m. I decided to get a knife and hack at bits of the breast. I took off a couple, hand fed them and now he likes chicken pieces again... lol Today I sliced a couple pieces but leaving them attached (to make starting a little easier) but no interest yet. He seems to like it a little warmer than fridge temp though so we'll see.

Oh, and he liked yogurt from my finger, but only took a bit from the plate I put it on. Hopefully he changes his mind about that too!

[MyFairLacy]

I found this website with quotes from vets with answers to a lot of questions about bacteria, how bad commercial pet food is for our pets, and how great raw is http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/animals.htm

I was looking up veterinary nutrition websites and one REALLY annoyed me..saying raw diets were unsafe, bones were unsafe, food-borne illness was a concern, etc etc...UGH...I just DO NOT understand why most vets don't see the benefit to feeding raw. If they just took a month or so to research it, they would see how great it is! Darn commercial pet food industry and all it's money they contribute to brainwash vets! Being a vet student, it really really annoys me.

Today we had a dermatologist come and talk to us about allergies and I was talking to her about my oldest cat that has had chronic allergies. I told her I was feeding raw to her right now (well, half raw)..she though I meant homecooking...when I repeated that it was RAW, she said "oh but you need taurine in their diet and there can be problems with e.coli and salmonella"...REALLY? I didn't feel like arguing with her so I just said I wasn't worried about that. Of course, she suggested Hill's z/d...why why why can't vets just do their research. Then maybe more people would try raw diets and see how GREAT it is for their pets

[MyFairLacy]

I'm in the holistic club and we had a Nature's Variety rep come and talk to us at a meeting about raw diets. I thought it was great. I didn't agree with EVERYTHING the rep said, but it still got great info out about feeding raw. It's a smaller club though so it didn't reach a lot of vet students but every bit helps. We have student reps for some of the pet food companies here (Hills, Purina, Iams, and Natura) and I talked to the Nature's Variety rep about becoming a student rep for them. I'm hoping I can get it approved with the Dean and that the rep can approve it with nature's variety. Before, I was mostly hoping to do it to get free products for myself, but now I really want to do it just to get info out about raw feeding to vet students.

Even if you aren't crazy about pre-packaged raw, at least getting some info to vet students about raw feeding would be better than none at all and if Nature's Variety is able to do this, I think it would be great. I just want so badly to see vet students and Vets educated CORRECTLY on raw diets

[YorkieNewbie22]

Originally Posted by abbie's mom

ummmm....some of us beg to differ this point : http://rawfed.com/myths/stomachcontents.html

great link! This post has lots of info in it. Maybe it should be a sticky?

[Tissy]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

I found this website with quotes from vets with answers to a lot of questions about bacteria, how bad commercial pet food is for our pets, and how great raw is http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/animals.htm

I was looking up veterinary nutrition websites and one REALLY annoyed me..saying raw diets were unsafe, bones were unsafe, food-borne illness was a concern, etc etc...UGH...I just DO NOT understand why most vets don't see the benefit to feeding raw. If they just took a month or so to research it, they would see how great it is! Darn commercial pet food industry and all it's money they contribute to brainwash vets! Being a vet student, it really really annoys me.

Today we had a dermatologist come and talk to us about allergies and I was talking to her about my oldest cat that has had chronic allergies. I told her I was feeding raw to her right now (well, half raw)..she though I meant homecooking...when I repeated that it was RAW, she said "oh but you need taurine in their diet and there can be problems with e.coli and salmonella"...REALLY? I didn't feel like arguing with her so I just said I wasn't worried about that. Of course, she suggested Hill's z/d...why why why can't vets just do their research. Then maybe more people would try raw diets and see how GREAT it is for their pets

YOU ROCK!!!

[Suntea]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

I found this website with quotes from vets with answers to a lot of questions about bacteria, how bad commercial pet food is for our pets, and how great raw is http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/animals.htm

I was looking up veterinary nutrition websites and one REALLY annoyed me..saying raw diets were unsafe, bones were unsafe, food-borne illness was a concern, etc etc...UGH...I just DO NOT understand why most vets don't see the benefit to feeding raw. If they just took a month or so to research it, they would see how great it is! Darn commercial pet food industry and all it's money they contribute to brainwash vets! Being a vet student, it really really annoys me.

Today we had a dermatologist come and talk to us about allergies and I was talking to her about my oldest cat that has had chronic allergies. I told her I was feeding raw to her right now (well, half raw)..she though I meant homecooking...when I repeated that it was RAW, she said "oh but you need taurine in their diet and there can be problems with e.coli and salmonella"...REALLY? I didn't feel like arguing with her so I just said I wasn't worried about that. Of course, she suggested Hill's z/d...why why why can't vets just do their research. Then maybe more people would try raw diets and see how GREAT it is for their pets

thanks for posting the link, i learned a lot from there...

[lauraopi]

I don't know if anyone remembers, but I switched Reese to Nature's Variety because she has had so many problems with itching and allergies. I recently got her an allergy test and while I was waiting for the results I had to bring her into the vet for a consult regarding the supplements they had given her to ease the itching. The vet I saw (had never seen before) was very nice and seemed to have a large knowledge base. She is totally on board with raw. Well, I told her how I was giving Reese NV venison because I had a feeling she was allergic to chicken. She told me that she did not believe in food allergies, that allergy testing was basically a waste of time, and that she was experiencing this because her immune system is not what it should be (it was another vet at the office who recommended the test). So, I gave her a chicken leg the following day (I had posted about it) and Reese loved it. She threw up that night, which I thought was normal because it was a new protein source for her and not the NV I had been feeding her. BUT...she threw up the next day and the next...I ended up calling the vet again, and it just so happened they got her tests back the day I called and....SHE IS ALLERGIC TO CHICKEN!!!!!!!!! and turkey, and eggs, among other things, but can you believe it!!! I was so pissed!
So now that I am done ranting, the NV has eggs and too many other ingredients, so until I am totally comfortable feeding her raw myself, what is another good brand that I can give that people have experience with?

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by lauraopi

I don't know if anyone remembers, but I switched Reese to Nature's Variety because she has had so many problems with itching and allergies. I recently got her an allergy test and while I was waiting for the results I had to bring her into the vet for a consult regarding the supplements they had given her to ease the itching. The vet I saw (had never seen before) was very nice and seemed to have a large knowledge base. She is totally on board with raw. Well, I told her how I was giving Reese NV venison because I had a feeling she was allergic to chicken. She told me that she did not believe in food allergies, that allergy testing was basically a waste of time, and that she was experiencing this because her immune system is not what it should be (it was another vet at the office who recommended the test). So, I gave her a chicken leg the following day (I had posted about it) and Reese loved it. She threw up that night, which I thought was normal because it was a new protein source for her and not the NV I had been feeding her. BUT...she threw up the next day and the next...I ended up calling the vet again, and it just so happened they got her tests back the day I called and....SHE IS ALLERGIC TO CHICKEN!!!!!!!!! and turkey, and eggs, among other things, but can you believe it!!! I was so pissed!
So now that I am done ranting, the NV has eggs and too many other ingredients, so until I am totally comfortable feeding her raw myself, what is another good brand that I can give that people have experience with?

I haven't used these myself but I've heard good things about Bravo and Primal

[abbie's mom]

I'm so sorry Reese had this recent trouble.

I don't have any experience with pre-packaged, so I haven't any useful suggestion for you.

[kalina82]

Since reece is allergic to a few things that are common ingredients in the pre-made stuff, maybe preparing your own raw would be easier.

as for pre-made, I use Nature's Variety and Animal Food Services.

[Mere_de_Jambo]

I totally understand how you feel. I am transitioning my 4 month old to a raw diet as well. I recently met a lady named Pat Mckay who is retired from running a holistic nutrition store in Los Angeles as well as vitamin supplements
and raw food. I bought some pre-made raw food from Harmony Farms that is like homemade to feed my little boy. He would not touch it. He's only had dry food so far and didn't care for the texture. I also noticed he was having a difficult time chewing the meat so I went out and bought Stella and Chewy's raw food (like Nature's Variety) and he ate this up. It is likely that fact the meat was grounded up more helped him consume it better. He still has his baby teeth so I plan on just mixing it up for now. I asked Pat about runny poop and she said that this should be nothing to worry about as this is a natural way for the body to cleanse its system. She assured me that eventually he will have good looking stools. She also suggested to me that the first few times I feed him raw, I should give him as much as he likes until he stops. She said that because a raw diet is satisfying his nutritional needs he will not over eat and eventually he will only need one feeding. I have read that dogs on a raw diet who are underweight gain the necessary weight and those overweight lose not based on a specific amount. I bought her book Reigning Cats and Dogs (easy quick read) just to keep as as reference guide. I bought him some supplements from ESP Supplements and Flying Bassett.


Here is what the book said regarding canned vegetables and egg shells:
"Do not feed the shell under any circumstances. When animals eat eggs or eggshells in the wild, the shell is still very fresh and soft. After the egg is a few hours old or has been cooked, the shell hardens. The edges of the broken shell become very sharp, which can cause internal bleeding."
"Veggies (with very few exceptions) are to be fed raw. They must be put through a food processor until the pieces are about the size of the head of a pin, because carnivores have very short, small intestines and they do not have the time during the digestive process to break down and assimilate large chunks of vegetables......If fresh vegetables are really not available, use frozen instead. Do not use canned or dried vegetables. The canned have been cooked to death and are salted. Dried vegetables will not reconstitute no matter how long soak them in water and cannot be digested by carnivores" She also states that she has seen dogs and cats having problems digesting beans and any vegetables will hulls due to their sugar content. They present a problem for dogs who have a predisposition to yeast infections, possibility of hypoglycemia, or hyperthyroid which can be too much stimulation from simple sugars that are created from these vegetables.
I plan to do the best I can for my little one which does not always mean I will be perfect or fanatical about holistic nutrition. Plenty of dogs have lived healthy long lives before it but I am going to the best that I can. Hope I was able to help a little.

[YorkieNewbie22]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

I found this website with quotes from vets with answers to a lot of questions about bacteria, how bad commercial pet food is for our pets, and how great raw is http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/animals.htm

I was looking up veterinary nutrition websites and one REALLY annoyed me..saying raw diets were unsafe, bones were unsafe, food-borne illness was a concern, etc etc...UGH...I just DO NOT understand why most vets don't see the benefit to feeding raw. If they just took a month or so to research it, they would see how great it is! Darn commercial pet food industry and all it's money they contribute to brainwash vets! Being a vet student, it really really annoys me.

Today we had a dermatologist come and talk to us about allergies and I was talking to her about my oldest cat that has had chronic allergies. I told her I was feeding raw to her right now (well, half raw)..she though I meant homecooking...when I repeated that it was RAW, she said "oh but you need taurine in their diet and there can be problems with e.coli and salmonella"...REALLY? I didn't feel like arguing with her so I just said I wasn't worried about that. Of course, she suggested Hill's z/d...why why why can't vets just do their research. Then maybe more people would try raw diets and see how GREAT it is for their pets

I agree with you and I feel the same way, deeply annoyed with vets that turn their nose up to raw. I laugh when I hear people I used to work with or family say their vet recommened science diet or purina. cmon vets, crack the book again and do some research on nutrition. you would think that they would know much more considering nutrition is very important...

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by YorkieNewbie22

I agree with you and I feel the same way, deeply annoyed with vets that turn their nose up to raw. I laugh when I hear people I used to work with or family say their vet recommened science diet or purina. cmon vets, crack the book again and do some research on nutrition. you would think that they would know much more considering nutrition is very important...

I think part of the problem too is that a lot of vets don't see the importance of nutrition... They think dogs can live long, healthy lives on overprocessed, cooked-to-death, loaded with crap kibble! And then they say raw is dangerous??? I just don't get it

[abbie's mom]

Hi, I feed prey model, so comments will be based on that experience, and I'm fighting a monster headache, so I hope I make sense.

Originally Posted by Mere_de_Jambo

He still has his baby teeth so I plan on just mixing it up for now.

Puppies are capable of efficiently eating raw meat and bones.

I asked Pat about runny poop and she said that this should be nothing to worry about as this is a natural way for the body to cleanse its system. She assured me that eventually he will have good looking stools.

Well, how long has he had runny stools? And, what's in the food he's getting now? If it contains grains and carbs, that could be his problem. Or, if he's getting more than the adequate ratio of innards to meat and bone, that can cause loose stools.

She also suggested to me that the first few times I feed him raw, I should give him as much as he likes until he stops. She said that because a raw diet is satisfying his nutritional needs he will not over eat and eventually he will only need one feeding.

Pat and I agree, here; except that I can't see that a toy breed should move to once/daily feedings, unless s/he regulates him/herself to that schedule, as regulated by his/her needs. But, if puppy is stuffing himself, that could also answer the runny stool. When he learns that this isn't a fluke, and he doesn't have to gorge on real food - that he will get it regularly, he will settle down. It is my opinion that dogs (unlike people) don't eat out of boredom. They eat to live. Mine will oftimes leave a meal when they are full.

I have read that dogs on a raw diet who are underweight gain the necessary weight and those overweight lose not based on a specific amount.

........Yes.

I bought him some supplements from ESP Supplements and Flying Bassett.

If he is getting a varied meat/bone/innard menu, he does not need supplements except for maybe fish oil for O'3s.

Here is what the book said regarding canned vegetables and egg shells: "Do not feed the shell under any circumstances. When animals eat eggs or eggshells in the wild, the shell is still very fresh and soft. After the egg is a few hours old or has been cooked, the shell hardens. The edges of the broken shell become very sharp, which can cause internal bleeding."

Interesting. I learn something new every day. Wel, maybe my dogs are smarter than I give them credit for. I've been trying to make them eat eggshells, and neither will have anything to do with them! LOL However, I do know of many people who feed raw egg - shell and all -with no ill effects.

"Veggies (with very few exceptions) are to be fed raw. They must be put through a food processor until the pieces are about the size of the head of a pin, because carnivores have very short, small intestines and they do not have the time during the digestive process to break down and assimilate large chunks of vegetables......If fresh vegetables are really not available, use frozen instead. Do not use canned or dried vegetables. The canned have been cooked to death and are salted. Dried vegetables will not reconstitute no matter how long soak them in water and cannot be digested by carnivores" She also states that she has seen dogs and cats having problems digesting beans and any vegetables will hulls due to their sugar content. They present a problem for dogs who have a predisposition to yeast infections, possibility of hypoglycemia, or hyperthyroid which can be too much stimulation from simple sugars that are created from these vegetables.

OK, here's my take (for what it's worth): Veggies should be fed only raw, and ONLY as a treat on RARE occasions. Dogs do not need vegetables, as they are canines. Yes, I know they like them, and will gobble them up. But, their systems are not designed to process them - even raw. Otherwise, 'experts' wouldn't make suggestions that veggies "be put through a food processor until the pieces are about the size of the head of a pin". They don't need the simple sugars, or the problems that may result.

I plan to do the best I can for my little one which does not always mean I will be perfect or fanatical about holistic nutrition. Plenty of dogs have lived healthy long lives before it but I am going to the best that I can.

..........

[mucto]

I have enjoyed reading this thread, thank you to everyone out there for all your great info. You all have empowered me to start feeding my little one a raw diet. I do have a question though.

I was at the store and found Turkey tails with bone. Is that okay to feed? I also found tripe. As I am just starting out, should I be feeding these? Chicken thigh and legs were on sale, so I bought some of those. I plan to start next week with the new diet.

Thanks again, everyone!