[abbie's mom]

Hi, I feed prey model, so comments will be based on that experience, and I'm fighting a monster headache, so I hope I make sense.

Originally Posted by Mere_de_Jambo

He still has his baby teeth so I plan on just mixing it up for now.

Puppies are capable of efficiently eating raw meat and bones.

I asked Pat about runny poop and she said that this should be nothing to worry about as this is a natural way for the body to cleanse its system. She assured me that eventually he will have good looking stools.

Well, how long has he had runny stools? And, what's in the food he's getting now? If it contains grains and carbs, that could be his problem. Or, if he's getting more than the adequate ratio of innards to meat and bone, that can cause loose stools.

She also suggested to me that the first few times I feed him raw, I should give him as much as he likes until he stops. She said that because a raw diet is satisfying his nutritional needs he will not over eat and eventually he will only need one feeding.

Pat and I agree, here; except that I can't see that a toy breed should move to once/daily feedings, unless s/he regulates him/herself to that schedule, as regulated by his/her needs. But, if puppy is stuffing himself, that could also answer the runny stool. When he learns that this isn't a fluke, and he doesn't have to gorge on real food - that he will get it regularly, he will settle down. It is my opinion that dogs (unlike people) don't eat out of boredom. They eat to live. Mine will oftimes leave a meal when they are full.

I have read that dogs on a raw diet who are underweight gain the necessary weight and those overweight lose not based on a specific amount.

........Yes.

I bought him some supplements from ESP Supplements and Flying Bassett.

If he is getting a varied meat/bone/innard menu, he does not need supplements except for maybe fish oil for O'3s.

Here is what the book said regarding canned vegetables and egg shells: "Do not feed the shell under any circumstances. When animals eat eggs or eggshells in the wild, the shell is still very fresh and soft. After the egg is a few hours old or has been cooked, the shell hardens. The edges of the broken shell become very sharp, which can cause internal bleeding."

Interesting. I learn something new every day. Wel, maybe my dogs are smarter than I give them credit for. I've been trying to make them eat eggshells, and neither will have anything to do with them! LOL However, I do know of many people who feed raw egg - shell and all -with no ill effects.

"Veggies (with very few exceptions) are to be fed raw. They must be put through a food processor until the pieces are about the size of the head of a pin, because carnivores have very short, small intestines and they do not have the time during the digestive process to break down and assimilate large chunks of vegetables......If fresh vegetables are really not available, use frozen instead. Do not use canned or dried vegetables. The canned have been cooked to death and are salted. Dried vegetables will not reconstitute no matter how long soak them in water and cannot be digested by carnivores" She also states that she has seen dogs and cats having problems digesting beans and any vegetables will hulls due to their sugar content. They present a problem for dogs who have a predisposition to yeast infections, possibility of hypoglycemia, or hyperthyroid which can be too much stimulation from simple sugars that are created from these vegetables.

OK, here's my take (for what it's worth): Veggies should be fed only raw, and ONLY as a treat on RARE occasions. Dogs do not need vegetables, as they are canines. Yes, I know they like them, and will gobble them up. But, their systems are not designed to process them - even raw. Otherwise, 'experts' wouldn't make suggestions that veggies "be put through a food processor until the pieces are about the size of the head of a pin". They don't need the simple sugars, or the problems that may result.

I plan to do the best I can for my little one which does not always mean I will be perfect or fanatical about holistic nutrition. Plenty of dogs have lived healthy long lives before it but I am going to the best that I can.

..........