Admin Question

[YorkieRini]

I am a breeder and it truly makes me sad to posts that encourage others to breed for 'pets' regardless of the standard. I know this is a free forum and all thoughts and ideas are shared and allowed. I was just wondering, is there anything that is not allowed to be posted on YT besides attacking of others?

Irene

[Ponyup]

I'm torn on the issue. My baby came from a backyard breeder that wasn't going for a show yorkie and I just got lucky that he is cute and smart. However, if I get another chances are good I'm gonna at least talk to Kathy (i think) first because she's close to me. I think you have every right to be upset. You bust your butt to produce great specimins of the breed and these people say that's fine and dandy, but the walmart brand will work just fine for me. It might not be the best quality but it will satisfy my needs. I understand your frustration and just wanted to let you know there are some of us on here that appreciate your dedication to the breed.

[YorkieRini]

Thanks that's very kind of you. It is a lot of hard work. There are plenty out there that breed pet quality. Just look at puppy find. There are not many that breed to the standard, for health and tempermant. There are plenty of pets to chose from (willow Creek Kennel for example)..too many infact that as a breeder it's difficult for me to find something to breed that is a good representation of the breed AND healthy. That combo is hard to find. <sigh>

[wnalegria]

Rini - thank you for posting this. In a normal breeding program just trying to breed for something to show- there are a lot of puppies that just don't make the standard that you have set. They are beautiful- unless you tell the adopting parent the fault or why you want to place them as a pet- they would never know why you have placed them as a companion. They think they are perfect.

[Breeze]

Originally Posted by YorkieRini

I am a breeder and it truly makes me sad to posts that encourage others to breed for 'pets' regardless of the standard. I know this is a free forum and all thoughts and ideas are shared and allowed. I was just wondering, is there anything that is not allowed to be posted on YT besides attacking of others?

Irene

I agree, I have been to other dog forums that do not allow talk of breeding at all or anything that they feel may be abusive to dogs, even talk of choke chains is forbidden. The only people that are allowed to talk about breeding are AKC show breeders, anyone else is not allow to post about any breeding issue at all. To me this is too strick as I have seen so many great breeders like you on this site and others that do not show but really truely care about the animals they bred, the standards, and have excellent breeding programs....

To me it can be too extreme and am happy the Admin here at YT gives us freedom to talk about all issues. But I do find many of the posts that talk about breeding tinies very upseting as I feel it is very abusive to these tiny animals we all love.

I am also one that believes that yorkies should only be bred to better the breed and not "all" dogs should be bred. I think this "pet standard" is used as an excuse to breed dogs that do not meet the standard and make it ok. Where will our breed be in 10 years? If only a small number of yorkie breeders are breeding to the standard. It will almost be lost. It makes me sad for the yorkies and the breeders who strive to keep them the breed we love.

[red98vett]

Breeze......GOOD post

[admin]

We allow most topics, however, we do not allow solicitation for donations, nor do we allow promotion of puppymills nor do we tolerate any kind of animal abuse. There will definitely be topics that we will have to review as it comes up.

As far as breeding, we do not support the breeding of tiny female Yorkies, especially when their safety is in jeopardy. We have yet to determine what exact size would be too tiny to breed.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

I totally agree with admin on the breeding or tinies. He stated my view exactly.

Walmart brand?

Did I really read that? As I understand it the majority of puppies produced even by show breeders end up being "pet quality" or am I wrong? There are very few that make the cut to show quality and maybe a few who are "breed quality".

I just posted an article I found on the internet on a new thread that challenges whether breed standards are even a good thing! It states that the rationale that the breeders have posed that they breed to the standard to improve the breed is not what is happening. The breed standards are failing the dogs due to inbreeding.

And, for those of us who like a long tail and blondes and chocolates and parti-colors as well as the baby doll face, where does that leave us? Are you calling my babies of less quality than one who is bred to breed standard?

I cannot believe what I am reading. What country is this anyway?

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by admin

We allow most topics, however, we do not allow solicitation for donations, nor do we allow promotion of puppymills nor do we tolerate any kind of animal abuse. There will definitely be topics that we will have to review as it comes up.

As far as breeding, we do not support the breeding of tiny female Yorkies, especially when their safety is in jeopardy. We have yet to determine what exact size would be too tiny to breed.

I'm glad you posted this Administration - We do need to keep stressing on that people should NOT breed a tiny... (and info about puppy mills etc) and what better place to do it ...

there are so many people who don't post but DO read - Much of the information here gets read by thousands of people which is why it's best to always offer GOOD Helpful information & opinions

[YorkieRini]

Originally Posted by admin

We allow most topics, however, we do not allow solicitation for donations, nor do we allow promotion of puppymills nor do we tolerate any kind of animal abuse. There will definitely be topics that we will have to review as it comes up.

As far as breeding, we do not support the breeding of tiny female Yorkies, especially when their safety is in jeopardy. We have yet to determine what exact size would be too tiny to breed.

Thanks for replying. I'm glad there are some restrictions. As for the puppymills, I guess I am splitting hairs when I say some topics can encourage puppymills or folks to buy from them when it's publicized a responsible breeder doesn't have to breed to improve on the breed. Am I making sense? I see some posts that indirectly can encourge the breeding of pet qualtiy puppies. Not that they are any less because they may have a flaw here and there. They make wonderful and beautiful pets no doubt. I would rather seen them place as pets instead of culled or euthanized early on because of the flaws.
Just wanted to voice my opinion on the dangers of publicizing that it's 'OK' to breed pet quality Yorkies.

Respectfully yours,
Irene

[cheryl000]

Originally Posted by admin

We allow most topics, however, we do not allow solicitation for donations, nor do we allow promotion of puppymills nor do we tolerate any kind of animal abuse. There will definitely be topics that we will have to review as it comes up.

As far as breeding, we do not support the breeding of tiny female Yorkies, especially when their safety is in jeopardy. We have yet to determine what exact size would be too tiny to breed.

Thanks from all of us for the quick reply. But if YT does NOT condone the breeding of tinies because it's classified as animal cruelty then why are the breeders of tinies allowed to post in the for sale section? I've seen the puppies of 3 and 4 lb yorkie female mothers being advertised. To many there is no doubt that is considered a tiny. By allowing the advertising of tinies breed by tiny mothers, isn't it PROMOTING breeding of tinies instead? I have reported it many times with no response. I believe this is one of the reasons for the topic reoccuring on YT. Thank you for your time.

[SoCalyorkiLvr]

Originally Posted by YorkieRini

Thanks for replying. I'm glad there are some restrictions. As for the puppymills, I guess I am splitting hairs when I say some topics can encourage puppymills or folks to buy from them when it's publicized a responsible breeder doesn't have to breed to improve on the breed. Am I making sense? I see some posts that indirectly can encourge the breeding of pet qualtiy puppies. Not that they are any less because they may have a flaw here and there. They make wonderful and beautiful pets no doubt. I would rather seen them place as pets instead of culled or euthanized early on because of the flaws.
Just wanted to voice my opinion on the dangers of publicizing that it's 'OK' to breed pet quality Yorkies.

Respectfully yours,
Irene

You have stated to me that out of the 20 dogs your program has produced in 2.5 years all but 1 were "pet quality" so I don't see the logic in what you are saying. Are you saying it is okay to produce "pet quality" but only if they come from breed quality dogs or do the parents both have to be "champions"?

Why is there such discrimination on the part of SOME breeders against companion yorkies who are sound and healthy and of good temperament? This is what MOST yorkies are! This is what MOST people own.

We want pets who can be a part of the family, be obedience trained, maybe even agility trained, or flyball trained and who can enjoy their lives happy and free. This is the average yorkie owner...it is not someone who keeps their dog in a crate for most of its life and never takes it to the dog park and ships it all over the country to handlers, for shows or to be bred and restricts its play time for fear of ruining the beautiful coat.

The argument that you should not breed unless it is to "improve the breed" and in order to improve the breed you have to follow the YTCA standard as currently written, is a false one, and has been proven over the last 200 years to be a myth. It doesn't happen. The breed is not improved by this standard...some even argue that it is harmed by this practice.

To encourage the admin here to "prohibit" posts in opposition to these viewpoints is simply close minded and irresponsible. We may as well burn all the books in the libraries that disagree with you, or remove any articles for the internet that conflict with you point of view. I am sorry if you don't like that they exist but they do. You have to have confidence and faith in what you are doing and then what others post will not affect you so much. JMHO.

[YorkieRini]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

You have stated to me that out of the 20 dogs your program has produced in 2.5 years all but 1 were "pet quality" so I don't see the logic in what you are saying. Are you saying it is okay to produce "pet quality" but only if they come from breed quality dogs or do the parents both have to be "champions"?

Why is there such discrimination on the part of SOME breeders against companion yorkies who are sound and healthy and of good temperament? This is what MOST yorkies are! This is what MOST people own.

We want pets who can be a part of the family, be obedience trained, maybe even agility trained, or flyball trained and who can enjoy their lives happy and free. This is the average yorkie owner...it is not someone who keeps their dog in a crate for most of its life and never takes it to the dog park and ships it all over the country to handlers, for shows or to be bred and restricts its play time for fear of ruining the beautiful coat.

The argument that you should not breed unless it is to "improve the breed" and in order to improve the breed you have to follow the YTCA standard as currently written, is a false one, and has been proven over the last 200 years to be a myth. It doesn't happen. The breed is not improved by this standard...some even argue that it is harmed by this practice.

To encourage the admin here to "prohibit" posts in opposition to these viewpoints is simply close minded and irresponsible. We may as well burn all the books in the libraries that disagree with you, or remove any articles for the internet that conflict with you point of view. I am sorry if you don't like that they exist but they do. You have to have confidence and faith in what you are doing and then what others post will not affect you so much. JMHO.

You know what my views are on this we've taken up on PM. I am not willing to go another round with you on this. I thought we agreed to disagree. My opinions and concerns when right over your head. If I don't make sense to you then so be it. I know what my concerns are I see and hear of it everyday. So I am not going to argue with you my point because you refuse to hear me, not agree just hear me out. Maybe you don't realize it Kim but you are a tad too aggressive in pushing your beliefs on others. You can state your opinion but to call me irresponsible is ridiculous!! Getting 1 Yorkie that I may be able to show out of the 20 pups I've produced is reality. If you would only listen you'd get more out of the conversation.

Regards,
Irene

[wnalegria]

Originally Posted by SoCalyorkiLvr

You have stated to me that out of the 20 dogs your program has produced in 2.5 years all but 1 were "pet quality" so I don't see the logic in what you are saying. Are you saying it is okay to produce "pet quality" but only if they come from breed quality dogs or do the parents both have to be "champions"?

Why is there such discrimination on the part of SOME breeders against companion yorkies who are sound and healthy and of good temperament? This is what MOST yorkies are! This is what MOST people own.

We want pets who can be a part of the family, be obedience trained, maybe even agility trained, or flyball trained and who can enjoy their lives happy and free. This is the average yorkie owner...it is not someone who keeps their dog in a crate for most of its life and never takes it to the dog park and ships it all over the country to handlers, for shows or to be bred and restricts its play time for fear of ruining the beautiful coat.

The argument that you should not breed unless it is to "improve the breed" and in order to improve the breed you have to follow the YTCA standard as currently written, is a false one, and has been proven over the last 200 years to be a myth. It doesn't happen. The breed is not improved by this standard...some even argue that it is harmed by this practice.

To encourage the admin here to "prohibit" posts in opposition to these viewpoints is simply close minded and irresponsible. We may as well burn all the books in the libraries that disagree with you, or remove any articles for the internet that conflict with you point of view. I am sorry if you don't like that they exist but they do. You have to have confidence and faith in what you are doing and then what others post will not affect you so much. JMHO.

JMHO- we are allowed to have a different point of view as show/breeders.
You have yours and have made it clear time and time and time again. Do you really think that you are going to sway or change the mind of the majority. I doubt it. It just gets tiresome.

When you go and buy a car- you purchase it wanting iy to look and be a certain style and look- If you buy a red Vette - you want a red vette delivered to you-. You bought that car for what it is- if you wanted a suburban you should have bought a suburban that is clearly a different type of vehicle. The same with our breed - we have a standard. Am I happy that puppies who don't meet the standard are placed in companion homes. Yes.

Maybe breeders of old culled or gave away these odd colored babies for a reason. Could they have been afraid that someone who they did not trust would try and ruin our breed by breeding these dogs and making them the norm and not the abnorm. Who knows

The horse is dead- let it die and lets go on. You have your opinion you are entitled to it- and the rest of us are allowed to have a different opinion by the same rights that you bringing up. It is not required to make every disucussion a dogfight.

[red98vett]

Originally Posted by wnalegria

JMHO- we are allowed to have a different point of view as show/breeders.
You have yours and have made it clear time and time and time again. Do you really think that you are going to sway or change the mind of the majority. I doubt it. It just gets tiresome.

When you go and buy a car- you purchase it wanting iy to look and be a certain style and look- If you buy a red Vette - you want a red vette delivered to you-. You bought that car for what it is- if you wanted a suburban you should have bought a suburban that is clearly a different type of vehicle. The same with our breed - we have a standard. Am I happy that puppies who don't meet the standard are placed in companion homes. Yes.


The horse is dead- let it die and lets go on. You have your opinion you are entitled to it- and the rest of us are allowed to have a different opinion by the same rights that you bringing up. It is not required to make every disucussion a dogfight.

wnalegria....Send that Red Vette to Hoooooooooouston !!!!
and I agree - we sure don't need EVERY thread to turn into a debate but it sure seems to be lately. Merry Christmas everyone ! I really only posted here cause I saw the words Red Corvette !