Why do some judge and bully others on YT?
 

I have seen many wonderful things on YT and being a new member I have been slowly checking out all of the advantages and there are many. The advantages definitely out way the disadvantages but I would like to discuss the ONE BIG DISADVANTAGE!!!

There are several YT longtime members that are very aggressive with their comments and they actually bully others that are posting for HELP!!! There are many that make excuses for them saying they are very knowledgeable and they have seen many things because they care so much but........

I have had this experience myself and I have read other threads where new and long time members both actually get bullied and judged by these longtime members. I don't know if it is because they feel like they are helping or because they somehow feel like they own YT and can do and say whatever they want?!

At first my feelings were hurt but then I started to figure out that most of the time these people are not even reading the full comments people leave and are not getting the facts about what is going on before they spew their judgments and that is just sad!
Then when I stood up to them and verified the information I got they all quit posting on my thread.......hmmmmm why?

I can defend myself and don't have any problem standing my ground but I feel bad for the YT newbies that come on here for advice, support and guidance and they get bullied and are led to believe that they make the wrong decisions.

When people post in the sick/injured thread they are stressed, worried, freaked out and their emotions are going haywire and then instead of helping and supporting them people get all high and mighty and say things that are just plain hurtful and out of line!!

On the other hand for the two or three that do this I have had 4 or 5 people PM me with support and general concern for me and my baby and they have stood beside me and made me feel better each time someone else was rude.

I just wanted to post this for discussion to see how others feel about this and if they feel the same way. I will stand my ground and if you are rude and nasty I will report your comments.....

I don't even know what to say to you. So you are basically saying that you have issue with comments made after you asked for help? Who are these people you are talking about?

I had asked for help, SUPPORT, and ADVICE and when I posted what I was told by my vet I was basically told in so many words that I was a bad mother because I didn't chose exploratory surgery even though my vet did not suggest that was the best option.
Some chose not to read the full comment I posted or they read it wrong and this was not the first time this happened. It happened on my very first posting as well. People give advice but if you don't chose to do what they want they go after you.
I have just read a thread that you have been posting in and I do not agree with that either. If someone suggests something you don't agree with it is not up to you to belittle what they believe in. Everything has a right to their opinion and when people are harassed and bullied because of their beliefs that is wrong!

In general I believe there should be a general respect for EVERYONE and people should not be ganged up on because of how or what they believe in.

So now I am a target of your little campaign? :eek: Are you talking about the member who suggested Chiropractic care for a neck injury? I'm sorry but I have every right to voice my concern when someone suggest a treatment route that could be dangerous.

In the past 3 days I have made several HUNDRED posts and ONE POST that I made you are going to point out that YOU didn't like what I said and feel the need to bring this up :rolleyes:

You came to YorkieTalk looking for help. When very knowledgable members gave you sound advice your thanks is to turn on them and make a thread like this one :confused:

This is an open forum and everyone is free to give their opinion when a thread is started. Obviously, you were looking for opinions regarding your dog otherwise you would not have looked for help via the internet search engine and arrived here. You typed out your post and after you hit send everyone is free to comment and give their knowledge to help the situation at hand. This is how a forum works.

If I were in your situation, I sure would take the advice of the member who have many years of personal experience dealing with sick dogs, providing the best treatment from highly qualified vet VS vet quackery from misread internet Google searches.

When someone is giving secret medical counsel via PMs how do you know if what they are suggesting is correct? If you had a vast array of veterinary knowledge you would not have been searching on line for help and would have been able to assess your dogs situation without assistance from the YT community.

Furthermore, those that are not willing to speak in the open forum should be under greater suspect. There must be a reason for this and it is not because of bullying. I suspect is it general lack a solid foundation of what they are speaking via PMs and they do not want to be called out on what they are lacking by those who can stand behind what they speak.

I will not engage with you further regarding this issue. If you do not like what has been said to you in your thread and would prefer the advice given from behind the scenes PMs then why don't you just close your thread and take your discussion private. :)

This is an open forum and everyone is free to give their opinion when a thread is started. Obviously, you were looking for opinions regarding your dog otherwise you would not have looked for help via the internet search engine and arrived here. You typed out your post and after you hit send everyone is free to comment and give their knowledge to help the situation at hand. This is how a forum works.

While I do agree with you about an open forum and people giving their opinions. I dont agree that the advise should always be taken. The poster should take to heart and weigh what is right for their situation,because ultimately the responsibility of care lies with the owner.

My understanding of what the OP is saying is that some members seem to be offended if given advice isnt taken. Years of experience do count for alot,but being on the scene and being able to see what is happening also counts for alot.

I read the thread that you were referring to and believe the comments made about chiropractors and the use of alternative medicine were quite unkind. I personally had not ever thought to use a chiropractor for one of my dogs. I personally do not have a chiropractor,but understand that there are people that find them helpful.

To sum up what I personally believe that the OP is trying to say is that there needs to be respect among the members wheather you just arrived or have been here a long time. I think a little proof reading before hitting send and a softening of wording would go a long way with everyone. Not just one or two members in particular.

The only advice I can give you on this topic is, lead by example.

Very nicely said!

I think I need to defend Megansmomma here. I was a newbie once and have had a few issues with Toby so I posted a new thread on each incident. Megansmomma has been here for me from day one when I joined YT. She has given me great advice, some I took and some I ignored. I've had several other long time YT'ers give me some very STRONG advice and STRONG suggestions to the point that I started wondering if they thought I was a bad "mommy." But I didn't feel hurt, mad or upset. Like everyone says, you post a thread and ask for advice or help, you will get it good, bad or indifferent. You are free to choose what your "gut" tells you to do which is what I did. Long story short, everything I did ended up being the advice from well rounded, highly knowledgeable ladies here on YT. And I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I don't know these people personally and I only have a little over 1,000 posts in 1 1/2 years so I normally do not dish out advice but will relate my experience on the topic at hand if I've had an experience with it.

Don't take things personal, read them with a grain of salt and if you don't like what's said, ignore the post and continue reading.

Here we go again!
 

LOL, well I just couldn't resist. I spoke on this subject sooooo many times and I try to avoid these threads, but I just felt the need to comment.

*Disclaimer: I did not read the OPs help thread and don't care to. The main issue is the way things are said on here, weather pertaining to this case or not....once again, IT DOES HAPPEN. So this is NOT I repeat NOT towards megansmomma*

Now lets try to practice what we preach people. "This is an open forum....so there are many opinions and you just have to take it"....OK....the OP's opinion is that some posters replys came across as rude. So sit there & eat it! :) Weather you were rude or not, take it for what it is & move on! You said what you wanted to say, the way you wanted to say it...so don't get mad if someone takes it to offense. Ignore it and leave.

Now IN THE REAL WORLD, when everyones not hiding behind their computer screens...If your trying to help someone & they take it as offensive...you re-assure them that wasn't your intentions and you're only there to help....not go back & argue them down about HOW THEY FEEL!:rolleyes: Now if they continue to be confrontational...leave it alone...go on another thread...tell someones furbaby Happy Birthday for goodness sakes!

And sometimes I just have to laugh at some of these posters and how BOLD they are with their comments... I gotta say they have HEART!...but I bet you their behind wouldn't try that slick talk in real life because they'll get told off or a fist in their mouth! :eek:

& @ McheleM....Speaking about karma, you're over there belittling the OP telling them to "hang out in the kiddie pool" but don't be surprised if one day someone pushes you in one because of that mouth of yours. :(


But as a newbie...I love YT....Best Forum on the Planet! I definitely think everything else overshadows the....do i dare to say it?.... "rudeness"...or "sensitivity"! lol, but I understand it can be frustrating.

I think on any internet forum - you have to be pretty thick-skinned.

I belong to a Parenting Forum on another website and cannot believe how mean that one can get! It sure makes YT look like the sweetest place in the world.

From my experience - this is just the way it is on internet forums. You take the good with the bad; glean what you can from all advice (even if you don't agree with it; you can still learn something) and move on.

In the end, it is always YOUR call; your decision; your dog.

The longer you hang around; the more some people will grow on you when you see what their true intentions are. They would do anything to help a dog.

I agree. Quicksilver used to have a Gandhi quote in her tagline that conveyed the same idea: "Be the change you want to see."

I do have to disagree strongly with the accusation that people are judging or bullying in the S&I forum. That section may seem a little rough and tumble at times because people have different and strong opinions on how to best handle different ailments and injuries, but keep in mind that the forum is not only for support, but also to share information and experience for the benefit of other readers, not just the OP.

When someone suggests taking a pup to a chiropractor after being dropped on the floor, yes, there is going to be strong outcry because that is grossly irresponsible. Even someone who advocates chiropractory can't seriously think this is a good plan when no xrays have been done and spinal and neck injuries have not been ruled out with more than a simple physical eval that you or I could have done.

It would be dangerous and irresponsible for everyone to ignore or appear to condone bad or controversial suggestions in the S&I forum. When I was looking up old eye-related threads, I found some really bad advice for alternative treatments or putting off treatment -- both things that could result in a pup losing vision or an eye.

Ann, you do not need to justify your decisions about your pup's healthcare to anyone on the Internet. We are each responsible only to ourselves and our doggies. However, none of us can expect everyone to agree with our decisions and give their stamp of approval. Not everyone (including good friends) agreed with my choice to have my regular vet treat Max's eyes rather than a specialist. That's okay because I know those people are simply concerned about my dog's eyes and vision.

What you call judging, I believe is intelligent and experienced people evaluating a situation. They are not sizing you up personally. What you refer to as bullying, I believe is persistence for the sake of the dogs and good info in this forum.

Whenever I read complaints about YT, I think of everyone here choosing a personal doctor or vet. Their bedside manner and approach are often factors in choosing. I'm guessing many people here would not like my vet because he is a man of few words and he is rather technical and doesn't mess around. That is the way it is on YT -- different people, different bedside manners.

I hope that people are not deterred from responding to threads in the S&I. That would be a great loss for us all.

Adding to my last statement....the alternative is to have a well wishes/prayers forum for sick and injured dogs, which is nice, but no one would learn anything.

We make our decisions with our vets, but is nice to go into appointments with some knowledge and understanding and maybe a few ideas to discuss with the doctor.

I read the thread you were referring to in the Sick and Injured forum, and I came here to comment, but this post concisely summarizes my thoughts on the matter. I did not read a single personal attack on that thread. I only read advice, and strongly suggested advice. You should feel happy and blessed that people care enough to write you lengthy explanations on what to do when you are in a moment of need. It's really a disservice to the people that spend so much of their time trying to help others. Have you noticed that most of the strongly suggested advice comes from people who work for rescues? People who spend their free time on YorkieTalk to give advice? I mean that should be sufficient enough for you to realize that they care about the welfare of the dog above all else.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

My apologies if this seems to be piling on, but I think many people (myself included) don't get around to all the forums on YT, because this place is so wonderfully big and active. If you have any doubts about the intentions of people who respond to the S&I threads, take a look at this example of what one member does with her time:

This is a dog that Linda (LadyJane) has in her care right now (warning, the initial picture of the dog is graphic and very sad): http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...your-help.html

This is the little dog, Gabby, today: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/3609144-post766.html

Here we go again!
 

I've come to the conclusion that some people (not pointing to anyone in particular, just making a general statement and I haven't read the particular thread in question) come to YT with the express purpose of hearing only what they want to hear. If someone gives an opposing opinion they immediately cry foul and say everyone is being rude or mean.

We all want to have our opinions/decisions validated. But in real life, that's not the way it works. Sometimes we are dead on right. But at other times times the decisions we make are wrong or misguided or even dangerous. That's when being open to alternative points of views can be not only helpful but life saving.

It's also important to remember that in the threads relating to illnesses and emergencies that nothing written there should EVER take the place of a hands on examination by a licensed vet, and in some cases, a specialist. A good vet should be confident enough in their own knowledge that they don't hesitate to send someone to a specialist for more intense testing or treatment. To relate it in human terms, I would never let an obstetrician put in a heart stent nor would I go to a cardiac surgeon to do a tubal ligation. Each of the docs has the same general knowledge, but they've chosen to focus their studies and practice in specific areas.

But back to the whole "they are being mean" thing... really people, it's time to grow up. Every time I see that written I just cringe. It feels so junior high. Getting caught up in what you perceive to be the tone rather than looking at the actual words ends up taking threads so far off topic that they aren't even recognizable any more. I sometimes wonder how people function in the real world when their feelings are so easily bruised. The ignore button can be your best friend if you really are that sensitive. Just use it with caution because you run the risk of missing out on some really helpful advice.

To the person who said we wouldn't try that schtick in real life, I have to disagree. What you see of me here on YT is exactly the way I am in real life. My friends know if they ask my opinion on something, they will get the absolute truth as I see it. They've come to expect that from me and I from them. We all know that we wouldn't be really good friends to each other if we weren't honest. And if we all agreed on every topic, we'd likely be bored stiff with each other. Unlike what seems to happen on YT, though, if we have differing opinions we know we can let it go and move on to the next topic without missing a beat.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thum bup::thumbup::thumbup:

I personally have turned to LJ in many situations. She is so knowledgeable about the sick and injured Yorkies.

This is my theory, although we don't always like what we hear it is usually in the best interest of the pet. The long term members here have seen so much and their hearts are in the right place. I do not think they have any intentions at all of bullying. I think they are just trying to get the members to do what is best for the dog. As you can only imagine what all they have seen. Look at some of the threads where these dogs have been taken into foster homes and their lives have been completely changed. Yes, Gabby is a wonderful example. She doesn't even look the same at all. And then there is Sammy too. These two had no life before. They were in so much pain and misery.

With that said, the bottom line is it is the member's pet and it will be up to them to determine what is best to do. The long term members are giving their advice which is being asked for. Many times the people asking for advice don't end up going to the vet. If they go to the vet and are comfortable with his/her advice than that is great. But many are seeking free "medical care".

Advice is opinions. Everyone has one. Not all agree with each other. I think any forum will be this way. I also think sometimes words in writing come across harsher than when spoken. We all have to keep that in consideration.

As for me, I personally take the members advice to heart. They have experience with Yorkies and usually have seen similar situations. If they tell me I need to see a vet then guess where I am going. But that is just me.

I understand your feelings but try to keep some of the previous situations in mind. It might help you to understand why some of the YT members fight so hard to stand up for what they believe in.

I had to post on the S & I forum a short time ago and I was very embarrassed about the situation I was in. I was afraid people would pass judgement on me, as they had every right to. But the way I looked at was the thread is not about me, it was about my pup. How selfish would it have been for me to not post out of fear of hearing something I didn't want to?

Also, I wanted specific advice based on actual experiences. I didn't know what to go to the vet for once I was able to take her (due to YTer's passion to help a pup). I was given a few ideas on what to ask for or be concerned about, etc. I'm sure things could've gone from worse to horrific if either I just stayed home or took the first quack's advice that we saw. But again, people here spoke up & made it possible in more ways than one for Princess to get the care she deserved.

And out of the whole thing I seem to have made more friends, rather than any "enemies". Sometimes things may come across strongly, but you have to ask yourself if that was to hurt you or to ultimately help you. There are things I'm passionate about, believe in & know to be true. If I thought someone could benefit from it I'd make sure I was (hopefully) heard, too.

You're new here & we're all virtually strangers to you, just like if you just joined a group of people in person for a discussion, you may not always know their intentions. Personally, I think less than two months is not enough time to get to know someone via a forum anyways.

My thread is not solely regarding the one about the woman who advised them to go to a chiropractor.........that was just an example. I read through that and there is NO WAY I would advise anyone nor would I take my dog to a chiropractor I would only trust a Vet.

My point was: why attack what that woman believes in? I do believe that the OP should strongly be advised to NOT take their poor baby to a chiropractor BUT if that is what she believes who is ANYONE to say what she believes in is wrong. The comments I read may not be there anymore but there were a few going back and forth and I believe they were not being respectful nor helpful by doing what they were doing.

I think this is a judgmental thread and you are attempting to bully people into not speaking up for the dogs when necessary- thankfully, many people have done this before and it does not work. People don't always get the answers they want here, but they do always get the knowledge and support of some very experienced members.

I think a post or two from that chiropractor thread you are referring to got deleted. That might have helped you to see the whole pic. The poster w the chiropractic views called other posters who did not agree w her view "ignorant". This kind of set off a barrage on the thread. I think when ppl resort to name-calling it really takes away from the validity of what they have to say. As adults w fairly good intellect, we should be able to express opposing views from one another w reason.

I am not targeting you but I was taken back by the way that particular thread was dealt with. I agreed with you but as I just said above I did not agree with the way it was handled. I don't think that woman should have been attacked by asking her "I have to ask~do you even own a dog?"
The back and forth was going a bit far and I felt sorry for that woman! I would have been just as defensive as her because she was feeling personally attacked....

I do apologize to you and will take the advice of others on "leading by example" from now on. I was just upset because I was reading MY thread over again and then I read that one and my emotions were running.



**I will be closing that thread and opening a new one if I need to. Thank you.

You are correct I did not see that as it must have been deleted before I saw it. That does present a different picture and I would in now way condone anyone who would call others names...now THAT is highschool!

In no way and I attempting to bullying people at all. Wow!! I understand that they speak for the dogs but they should also be respectful of the fact that what they say about the owners is sometime hurtful and out of line and that is the point I am trying to make here. I personally felt that I was being judged for the decision I made regarding my dog.
I think most of the people I am referring to are great people who do great things I just want to bring to attention that the way people say things in defense of the dog is sometimes hurtful to the owner and that is not doing anyone any good.

The posts that are gone in the chiropractor thread are the ones where lillymae is calling others "ignorant" and then she goes on to define the word citing to her dictionary. Those are the only posts that were offensive, and the only ones that were removed. There are no others that say what YOU say they say.

And in any event, if I want to say that I will NEVER take my dog to a chiropractor, I'll say it. Having a different opinion than yours, or anyone else here, does not make one a bully. It also does not make one judgmental. It simply means I don't agree. And if the OP wants advice about chiropractic, lillymae already extended an invitation to receive PMs. I would readily refer any member seeking chiropractic care to other members who believe in that, while still stating I do not.

And with regard to your thread, where you claim to be bullied, if I recall correctly, you came on your thread wanting a rubber stamp. I replied to you then saying that it would be disingenuous for us to rubber stamp you to spare your sensitivities. I still do not agree with what you did for Lucy, but it is your dog and you have to live with your decisions, not me. I told you what I would have done and why. You don't like what I have to say? Then don't listen. Feed your dog cans of l/D without any imaging or objective diagnostic information if you and your vet think that is appropriate. I would not be satisfied with that advice, and it's not the advice you would have gotten if you went to an ACVIM vet who would have AT THE VERY LEAST wanted to take a few pictures of that liver. Again it is your dog, and whatever you choose, I wish you and she well as I've stated numerous times. I think that is SUPPORTIVE, HONEST, and STRAIGHT FORWARD.

By the way, I left your thread because you do not want my input. I saw no reason to return to your thread. You have stated what you are doing and I wished you well. I have nothing else to offer you at this time. If another thread of yours comes around and I think I have something to offer, I am not going to hold a grudge simply because you are calling us bullies and trying to silence our opinions.

I do think this may be a first where someone here has suggested that we are bullies for LEAVING A THREAD PEACEFULLY.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Thank you!!!! This is EXACTLY the point I was trying to make! :)

:thumbup: I promise I will try to not let my emotions get the better of my and I will take this advice wholeheartedly because the last thing I want to do is make people think that I am judging or bullying!

I honestly did not start this or aim it toward megansmomma she just happened to respond right after I read the thread about chiropractors right after I started the thread.

I do try to take it with a grain of salt but when something I wrote was completely ignored on my thread and then I was accused of not doing what my Vet and specialist told me to do~when in fact I am doing EXACTLY what they suggested~that is wrong.

A lot of what people post appears to be bullying when actually it's just very firm opinions and advice, some of which is said at times a little harsher than maybe it should be. But it's only because the "bullies" combined have been through much of what is posted in the S&I section.

When I first joined YT I was very intimidated of a few people and was so reluctant to post anything. I thought some of the comments seemed a bit harsh. I now realize that those people have become some of my closest friends on YT because they ultimately care intensely for and love their pets. I was confused by megansmomma's intentions at first :hide2:, would never debate barney107 if my life depended on it and LadyJane still scares me at times. These people are some of the greatest assets on YT and sometimes it takes a little time to see that.

disclaimer: the names used in this post are hypothetical "bullies" :D