Bile Acid Test - next steps - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

TLC · 10-19-2007, 08:59 AM

Oh Yorkieluv - You are so good!

Miko is one lucky pup to have such a wonderful Mom like you

Ellie May · 10-19-2007, 09:10 AM

Miko sure does have it good.

Yorkieluv, why isn't flaxseed oil recommended for liver compromised dogs?

Baron · 10-19-2007, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KodysMom

Hi Everyone,

I finally got the bile acid test done on my baby, Kody, and his levels were pre 40 and post 65 (my vet said the scale they use has 25 being the highest level within the normal range). He has never exhibited a single symptom (other than being small) so this test was totally elective on my part (he is 2 years old and weighs in at 2 pounds).

.

Before you go too much farther with this, wait a month or 6 weeks and have the test redone. If he was under a lot of stress at the vets, or as my tiny girl did the first time, fought the procedure to draw the blood, it can cause false raised readings. Granted, the readings you got back are higher than acceptable, they are not off the chart, as was my girl that had a shunt, both her readings were over 300. If the second set comes out high, then go for other tests. Oh and by the way, my girl never had any symptoms either, not a single one until she got a bladder infection.

Yorkieluv · 10-19-2007, 11:29 AM

Roxy and TJ are lucky to have a mom like you too!! You have done so much for them

Same with you, Ellie's mom

You guys are great!

This is all a learning process and we all learn new things everyday.

Yorkieluv · 10-19-2007, 11:31 AM

I agree with you, Baron. Maybe change her diet and put her on a couple of supplements. Then, retest her and see what the results are. If they are still elevated, then that means that there is some type of abnormality in the liver.

Yorkieluv · 10-19-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Miko sure does have it good.

Yorkieluv, why isn't flaxseed oil recommended for liver compromised dogs?

Flax seeds are high in manganese, tryptophan, phenylalanine, and tyrosine which increase the likelihood of neurological symptoms. We had a discussion about this on the liver shunt group recently...

KodysMom · 10-19-2007, 11:40 AM

HI Everyone - I just got back from the specialist here locally. He basically said he thinks the diarrhea/colitis is either separate from or causing the high acids (the liver is not causing the colitis).

He also said due to Kody's size/weight/body fat that anything he did here locally would be inconclusive. I need to take him somewhere (my closest options are VA Tech and NC state) and he recommends NC State b/c they have some nuclear scanning device that is completely noninvasive where they could track exactly the the food going through the liver and confirm a diagnosis. And while there, have an endoscopic exam to check the colitis (since they would be cheaper than him doing it) and he needs to be put under for that and with a potential liver issue, it would need to be determined if that was the right thing to do.

He doesn't think my dog is in any rush (over the next month) to do anything due to no symptoms or ill effects, other than the fact that he is just over two and if he needed surgery, I would want to not let him get any older. He doesn't want to me to up and change his diet until I make a decision on the course of treatment such we just switched food and he is eating so much with the new food. I realize not to wait on that too long due to long term liver damage (I get what everyone says, believe me).

So I can:
1 - Treat the colitis w/ metronidozole (as I am currently) and focus on that and turn a blind eye to the liver (which I would NEVER do)
2 - Treat the colitis w/ metronizole and try to get the bile acid test down w/ food changes/suppliments without knowing exactly what is wrong and get more bile acid testing done (to look for decreases)
3 - Go somewhere for further conclusive testing on the colitis and the liver

I am needing to talk to my husband. I am obviously for option 3 to know for sure. Any advice from those who have gone to major schools for testing/procedures. Has anyone gone to NC State specifically?

Ellie May · 10-19-2007, 11:47 AM

How far are you from Knoxville, TN? The University of Tennessee and Dr. Tobias are the best you could ask for with liver problems.

TLC · 10-19-2007, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellie May

How far are you from Knoxville, TN? The University of Tennessee and Dr. Tobias are the best you could ask for with liver problems.

I agree. I think you need to have your eyes open to both the Colitis and Possible Liver Issues - At the same time. Maybe you could achieve both with Dr. Tobias

KodysMom · 10-19-2007, 12:09 PM

9 hours....

Ellie May · 10-19-2007, 12:18 PM

Wow... that's pretty far.

KodysMom · 10-19-2007, 12:36 PM

NC State is 2 hours and VA TEch is 5 hours (and that is my alma mater so I am fine w/ going there). I have friends in both areas to help offset overnight costs.

gigismom · 10-19-2007, 01:13 PM

I'm in a holding pattern with my baby girl, GiGi too. I think she has MVD, but my vet, (who only has 1 other patient with liver shunt) says her numbers are very very high, and she most definitely has a shunt. She's had 2 BAT, and both came back about the same.... pre in the 2 range, and post in the high 70's low 80's. She has no symptoms, except she is small. we changed her food to Hills L/D, canned, and we giver her Milk Thistle and Lactulose every time she eats. Oh, and I had a complete blood panel work up done on her, and every other test came back normal, only the BAT came back high.

I hesitate to have our ONLY board certified surgeon in the state do anything to her because he only will do the dye test AFTER he opens her up, and he CAN'T FIND A SHUNT. And he doesn't do liver biopsies on Yorkies, because their livers are so small to begin with, especially if they have liver issues.... so that really doesn't help me much at all. I could spend $2600 and the only thing I would know is that he didn't SEE anything. I'm about 8 hour from UT, but I've thought about bundling her up and making the drive.... as soon as I can scrape together the money.

But, then if everything is being well controlled by diet, and she's having no symptoms, and she's happy and eating well, and her blood work is coming back normal except for the BAT.... isn't that what you would do for MVD anyway? So, I feel you pain from wanting to do what is best for your baby, but not wanting to throw money in the wind, when you don't have to.

I am a member of the yahoo group..... they are a great group, and I learn from them everyday!

KodysMom · 10-22-2007, 10:28 AM

I am in the process of my referral to NC State for the nuclear scan. I am really nervous. I think I would be out of my mind always wondering if I didn't proceed with this step. I will keep everyone posted.

sadiesamie · 12-24-2007, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrappymomma

We use Royal Canin L/S 14 which is a prescription food but has been working very well for us. If your vet doesnt carry it petsmart does. Your vet just needs to call in the prescription and they give you a card there for it. For treat I give my babies fruits and veggies... mostly fruit though. Check out the yahoo LS group, thay have really kept me sane when I thought I was losing it

You will be able to have tons of info on this too.

Hello, can you tell me what fruits and veg's you give as treats. My little one was just prescribed denamarin and antibiotics for possible liver disease. Her values were low and the vet is just being over cautious. Her level was 15 prior to feeding (normal is 7) and after feeding 25 (normal is 15)

vet said that dogs with liver problems have numbers in the hundreds so she is just wanting to start the antibiotics and supplement bc she is being over cautious. so....before i started the denamarin...i wanted to research. I feed wellness reduced formula dry and wellness venison and sweet potato as treats and to give meds. I am interested in fresh fruits and vegs too. :-)

10-19-2007, 08:59 AM	#16
TLC Slave to My Rug-Rats Donating Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Long Island Posts: 7,247	Oh Yorkieluv - You are so good! Miko is one lucky pup to have such a wonderful Mom like you __________________ Adopt Donate Foster www.yorkie911rescue.com

10-19-2007, 09:10 AM	#17
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	Miko sure does have it good. Yorkieluv, why isn't flaxseed oil recommended for liver compromised dogs? __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

10-19-2007, 11:29 AM	#19
Yorkieluv Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 7,178	Roxy and TJ are lucky to have a mom like you too!! You have done so much for them Same with you, Ellie's mom You guys are great! This is all a learning process and we all learn new things everyday. __________________ Miko 's his Mommy

10-19-2007, 11:31 AM	#20
Yorkieluv Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 7,178	I agree with you, Baron. Maybe change her diet and put her on a couple of supplements. Then, retest her and see what the results are. If they are still elevated, then that means that there is some type of abnormality in the liver. __________________ Miko 's his Mommy

10-19-2007, 11:47 AM	#23
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	How far are you from Knoxville, TN? The University of Tennessee and Dr. Tobias are the best you could ask for with liver problems. __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

10-19-2007, 11:40 AM	#22
KodysMom Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: virginia Posts: 46	HI Everyone - I just got back from the specialist here locally. He basically said he thinks the diarrhea/colitis is either separate from or causing the high acids (the liver is not causing the colitis). He also said due to Kody's size/weight/body fat that anything he did here locally would be inconclusive. I need to take him somewhere (my closest options are VA Tech and NC state) and he recommends NC State b/c they have some nuclear scanning device that is completely noninvasive where they could track exactly the the food going through the liver and confirm a diagnosis. And while there, have an endoscopic exam to check the colitis (since they would be cheaper than him doing it) and he needs to be put under for that and with a potential liver issue, it would need to be determined if that was the right thing to do. He doesn't think my dog is in any rush (over the next month) to do anything due to no symptoms or ill effects, other than the fact that he is just over two and if he needed surgery, I would want to not let him get any older. He doesn't want to me to up and change his diet until I make a decision on the course of treatment such we just switched food and he is eating so much with the new food. I realize not to wait on that too long due to long term liver damage (I get what everyone says, believe me). So I can: 1 - Treat the colitis w/ metronidozole (as I am currently) and focus on that and turn a blind eye to the liver (which I would NEVER do) 2 - Treat the colitis w/ metronizole and try to get the bile acid test down w/ food changes/suppliments without knowing exactly what is wrong and get more bile acid testing done (to look for decreases) 3 - Go somewhere for further conclusive testing on the colitis and the liver I am needing to talk to my husband. I am obviously for option 3 to know for sure. Any advice from those who have gone to major schools for testing/procedures. Has anyone gone to NC State specifically?

10-19-2007, 12:09 PM	#25
KodysMom Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: virginia Posts: 46	9 hours....

10-19-2007, 12:18 PM	#26
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	Wow... that's pretty far. __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

10-19-2007, 12:36 PM	#27
KodysMom Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: virginia Posts: 46	NC State is 2 hours and VA TEch is 5 hours (and that is my alma mater so I am fine w/ going there). I have friends in both areas to help offset overnight costs.

10-19-2007, 01:13 PM	#28
gigismom Donating Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 163	I'm in a holding pattern with my baby girl, GiGi too. I think she has MVD, but my vet, (who only has 1 other patient with liver shunt) says her numbers are very very high, and she most definitely has a shunt. She's had 2 BAT, and both came back about the same.... pre in the 2 range, and post in the high 70's low 80's. She has no symptoms, except she is small. we changed her food to Hills L/D, canned, and we giver her Milk Thistle and Lactulose every time she eats. Oh, and I had a complete blood panel work up done on her, and every other test came back normal, only the BAT came back high. I hesitate to have our ONLY board certified surgeon in the state do anything to her because he only will do the dye test AFTER he opens her up, and he CAN'T FIND A SHUNT. And he doesn't do liver biopsies on Yorkies, because their livers are so small to begin with, especially if they have liver issues.... so that really doesn't help me much at all. I could spend $2600 and the only thing I would know is that he didn't SEE anything. I'm about 8 hour from UT, but I've thought about bundling her up and making the drive.... as soon as I can scrape together the money. But, then if everything is being well controlled by diet, and she's having no symptoms, and she's happy and eating well, and her blood work is coming back normal except for the BAT.... isn't that what you would do for MVD anyway? So, I feel you pain from wanting to do what is best for your baby, but not wanting to throw money in the wind, when you don't have to. I am a member of the yahoo group..... they are a great group, and I learn from them everyday! __________________ jenn mommy to Gigi and Milo Milo on Instagram

10-22-2007, 10:28 AM	#29
KodysMom Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: virginia Posts: 46	I am in the process of my referral to NC State for the nuclear scan. I am really nervous. I think I would be out of my mind always wondering if I didn't proceed with this step. I will keep everyone posted.