Winston had another seizure
 

About an hour ago, we were outside in the backyard...Winston was running around , stumbled and just fell down...My husband thought at first maybe he hurt his leg or something, I ran to pick him up...he was having a seizure, his little body becomes rigid, shaking, panting, drooling & his eyes seem unfocussed. This is scary business, took him indoors, started right away with the Nutri-Cal and waited...holding him...soothing him...loving him. After about 15-20 minutes, he comes around, gets a little bit stronger, where he can stand up...maybe a little bit clumsy, not running or jumping around like usual, just kind of sulking, with his tail down and his little head drooping. He ate a little dog food and he is now fast asleep by my feet. I still don't understand why this happens to him, he's an 8 pound, 3 year old. He eats great! But if it's not his blood sugar, as my vet says it is...why does he come out of it after Nutri-Cal. I don't know, but something is making his sugar go low, his last seizure was on March 8th and there doesn't seem to be any connection...he'll sometimes have them more frequently and other times it will be months between episodes...I thought I had it all figured out, by feeding more frequent meals, like 4 times a day...but that just seems to be putting more weight on him. This has been going on for about a year, and in this time period he's put on nearly 1 pound. Anybody have any suggestions, if not, we could still use a thought and a prayer. Thanks for listening, I just don't know what else to do...

We experience seizures of an unknown origin from time to time with my 15 year old beagle mix. Interestingly, he has them less often now then he did when he was younger. The vet was never able to figure out the cause. However, we've never been told low blood sugar and never used Nutrical with him. He always came out of it just fine (your story sounds very much like what we go through). Don't be too hard on yourself, you may never figure out the exact cause.

That being said, my heart goes out to you. It's terrifying to watch them go through this and you feel so helpless the entire time. Not to mention dealing with trying to figure out the cause, etc.

I'm not sure what's going on with your baby, but it sounds like you are doing all the right things. Your keeping your vet informed, etc., yet you may never know. That can be very frustrating!

Hang in there, and good luck to you. Give your baby lots of hugs from all of us, and keep us posted.

Poor Winston! Maybe you should get a second opinion from another vet. Have they checked bloodwork to come to the low sugar conclusion, or are they just basing that on the info you've given them about his seizures? I know it's scary when you know there is something wrong with your baby and you can't just fix it.

I'm so sorry to hear Winston had another episode. I know how scary seizures are. Jewel used to have them 2-3 times a week when she was at her worst.

Has he been tested for diabetes? I just thought about it because you mentioned his blood sugar. Unfortunately he may just be epiliptic.

There are things you can do to help him incase he has another episode.
Keep an ice pack in the freezer, as soon as he starts to seize, put the ice pack on his lower back - between the last rib and his tail. It helps to keep the internal temp down and seems to shorten the length of the seizure and also the recovery time. Also, give him a small amout of icecream (vanilla) it not only boosts up the sugar level but also aids in cooling him down.

Keep a seizure diary / log and indicate the time it starts and ends along with what he was doing before during and after. It really helped my vet that I kept records of Jewel's episodes.

My heart is reaching out to you.
Corinne

My mother-in-law's Pomeranian, Chiquita, suffers from seizures, unknown origin. He just takes medication to control them, and he's doing fine, and doesn't seem to be affected negatively by them. Hope your baby is feeling better.

Yes, the low blood sugar has been confirmed by the vet...The 2nd time this happened I took him in during a seizure, at first they thought heat stroke, but the blood test said his glucose was in the 30's...they kept him, pumped him full of IV/glucose, brought it up to the 80's...I had to leave him there all day, 'til he was able to eat, they were afraid the glucose they gave him would make him rebound again...but it stayed level, so they released him to go home...I've always heard hypoglycemia in small dogs, but...he eats, he eats a lot, and yes he runs and plays but not excessively. Has anyone heard that the seizure itself will lower a dogs blood sugar? I keep questioning which comes first...hypoglycemia or seizure. Ideally I'd like to find how to prevent this from happening, I do know they lose brain cells from low blood sugar, oops there goes another brain cell...and I really don't want him to suffer, he needs his brain cells...

Oh, I almost forgot, thanks for the thoughts, ideas and suggestions, I'll keep them all in mind.

maybe its a combination of being epileptic and low blood sugar. have you and your vet discussed seizure medication like phenobarbitol ?

I don't know, I agree to maybe check him for diabetes, maybe something triggers him to produce a large amount of insulin at once. Dan & Corrine had good advice. Good luck. I'm glad the seizures aren't more frequent. He's lucky to have such a caring mom that wants him to be better. Hope you get some answers for Winston soon!!

Seizures are definitely glucose eaters. Have you considered a neurology consultation? If you are near a veterinary college, maybe you should take him there. I'm fortunate enough to live near Cornell, and it's been a godsend for hard to diagnose ailments.

Here are some links that might help Winston.

Here is a great website with info on seizures.
http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/

Make sure to remove as much gluten from the diet. Here is a link on YT about diet and seizures:
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sho...hlight=allergy

we have seizures with Icky
 

I am so sorry to hear about your baby. Icky has suffered with seizures since we adopted him from rescue in Jan 07. After much research and many vets (it took a while to find one who would treat him) we finally have him headed in the right direction. He is taking potassium bromide for seizures. He has low blood sugar and possibly liver issues. Since we have had him on pbr he has not had any grandmal seizures. Check out yahoo groups for liver problems and congenital disease dogs. There is a wealth of information there and a lot of support. The ice bag is a great suggestion. Keep that handy. Only give Bryers all natual ice cream as it has no presertives in it. If you need more support please e mail me @ psvidesigner@verizon.net. It may take a while but keep on searching for a vet who will treat the symptons and the seizures.

[QUOTE=Gingergirlsmom;1145658]
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Thank you so much for the well wishes, don't worry, Winston's getting plenty of hugs and kisses, and he really seems fine now, it's just so terrifying when it happens, just out of the blue, no rhyme or reason...he just starts to seize. I know I may never find out what if anything brings it on, I'm just concerned that I'm missing something...and I just can't put my finger on it. Thanks again...

:woof: :cheer: :cheer: Get well soon, Winston and hope you aren't scared when you have these "unknown attacks". Deborah and Charlie send you and your family good thoughts.

[QUOTE=Dan & Corinne;1145671]



I want to thank you for thinking about Winston, he is now looking out the window, barking at the neighbor...like nothing at all happened...I'm gonna have to look back and see in previous post what happened to Jewel, I'm sorry for your loss...she was so young. I do think I'll be calling the vet next week for an appt. for a check up, blood work, bile acid test...funny that you mentioned diabetes, cuz I told my husband that in people, diabetes usually follows hypoglycemia, so I'm really watching for signs of that, especially since he's putting on some weight. I do have an ice pack in the freezer at all times, but I didn't know it might help with seizures, thanks for the info...I'd have to syringe feed him the ice cream...when this is happening there is NO WAY that he'll eat, that's why I use the Nutri-Cal(that's what the vet told me to use). And I do definitely keep a log of his seizures, time, activity, food intake and all. Just haven't been able to find anything so far in common each time, other then his oral intake, he always eats the same amount every day.
Thanks again for your thoughts...

[QUOTE=robbin;1145692]
Thank you so much for the get well wish for Winston, he's better now...til next time. My vet doesn't seem to think it's epilepsy, so she never given him any seizure meds. But I'm making another appt. next week, I'll ask again. Thanks again!!!

[QUOTE=kalina82;1145760]
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll be talking to the vet next week...will ask about anti-convulsants...I'm a little leary of Phenobarb though. I really do feel like the seizure comes first, and the low blood sugar is an adverse reaction to the seizure, it has to take a lot out of him. But how can I really know for sure?

This is great advice. Corinne and I must read the same website ;)
The ice pack is great advice and the ice cream is another great tip. The reason ice cream is better than nutrical (for a seizure) is because of the fat...the fat makes it so the sugar isn't absorbed all at once. I always kept Breyers all natural vanilla for Lexxi.
Have I shared any websites with you yet? I have at least one very informative one, if you're interested.
Thoughts are going out to you...I know how scary they are!
Trina

YES it does. A seizure is like us running a marathon. It takes so much out of them that they are usually starving and thirsty afterwards. And the sugar levels drop. Again, I would syringe a small amount into Lexxi as soon as she could swallow.

[QUOTE=pat022351;1145857]
I'm probably going to have to do some research on vet colleges I don't know of any nearby, but I'm willing to travel a little ways if I can really help him. I just know this is not good for him, what if it happens when we're not home, God forbid, we do keep him confined in the kitchen when he's alone, to conserve his energy, otherwise he would be running back and forth between windows...and he has food out at all times. Thanks for your wisdom, I appreciate your help/advise.

[QUOTE=Dan & Corinne;1145860]



You are a wealth of information, I'm going to be busy reading for awhile. Thank you so much for caring!!!

It sounds like Winston could have Idiopathic epilepsy which my Tucker has and is common. Its not as scary as it sounds, it just means that the cause of the seizures cannot be identified whereas symptomatic epilepsy can be attributed to a cause.

There is no test for Idiopathic epilepsy. It is only diagnosed by ruling out other causes. Typically a vet will not give medication for Idiopathic epilepsy unless the seizures are severe or are occurring on a frequent basis. You're doing the right think with keeping a seizure diary, just make sure to time the seizures and know that as long as it lasts for under 15 minutes, it is not usually life threatening. If the seizure lasts longer or occurs one right after another (cluster seizures) then they can be fatal and you have to get him treatment right away.

The only additional advise I can give you to add to what the others said is to ask your vet for a dose of rectal valium that you can keep with you at all times. This could save his life. If he does have a seizure that lasts longer than 15 minutes or is particularly violent, then you can administer the valium which will bring him out of the seizure and will help to prevent lasting damage until you can get him to a vet. (Make sure to keep the valium out of the light because it will break it down and make it less effective).

On a side note, I would think about taking him to a new vet. Maybe someone on here can recommend someone in your area. Seizures definitely cause low glucose levels and I'm very surprised that your vet didn't know that. I strongly think that his seizures are not caused by low blood sugar and that it is Idiopathic epilepsy but you are doing the right thing by getting him a full work up just to make sure that nothing else is going on.

Okay, Bryers all natural it is, vanilla...I'm going to keep some on hand. Thank you so much for wishing Winston well, I greatly appreciate your concern...As far as getting other vet opinions, I think I will, but I'd like to find a "specialty" vet, to make sure it's not neurological, do you really think an 8 pound yorkie would have a liver problem...I'm beginning to wonder...the liver stores glucose right and the pancreas supplies insulin. I work as a medical assistant in a people doctors office, and I know some of the diabetes medications work on the liver to prevent too much glucose from going into the system. Maybe I'm really making too much of this, I don't know. But I want Winston to be well...and I hate to see him go thru this, I'd rather it be me!!!

Another thing to keep in mind is cardiac arrhythmias can be mistaken for seizures because they cause loss of consciousness and collapse. I would really try to find a good specialist. Winston will certainly be on my prayer list. He's such a terrific little guy!!

[QUOTE=SophieRose;1145979]
Oh thanks...there are so many caring people here, and you're one of them. And yes, I do think it scares him, when he comes around he's still shaking for quite some time. Thanks for the good thoughts, Winston needs them!!!

[QUOTE=LoveMyGirlz;1146021]
Trina, thanks for your thoughtfulness, I know you've had a rough time with Lexxi, bless her little heart...and may she rest in peace. I am very interested in any websites you have to offer, the more information I have the better equipped I'll be to take care of my boy. The fat content in the Bryers ice cream makes perfect sense. That's exactly what the vet was afraid would happen...rebound low blood sugar...after giving glucose to him by IV, they wanted to be sure he'd eat and his level stay within normal range before they discharged him. At least they did that right...I'm going to do some more research on everything I can think of, before I jump to a conclusion. Thanks again for your insight, and advise.

[QUOTE=drawlins27;1146081]I
Thank you too for the helpful information, I agree, I do think the seizure comes first, and the sugar is merely a reaction to it. I'm going to find some type of neurologist vet, to see if I can get a confirmation on this thought. But for now I'll see my regular vet again, for routine blood work-up and exam, I'll ask her about the valium suppository, that's a good idea...I have a friend who's daughter is epileptic and she uses Ativan I believe it's similar, but she puts it sublingual instead of rectal...if the seizure is long or more violent. Oh so much to think about and read up on, I do appreciate your posting, thanks again. How old is Tucker, and how long has he had this, hope he continues to do well, best wishes to you and he.

[QUOTE=Yorkiedaze;1146124]

Never even thought of the possibility of this being cardiac in nature, thanks for the thought...I'll check into it. Winston doesn't lose consciousness, he's awake, but not aware...he isn't able to respond to voice stimulation, I just hold him until he comes around, it always seems to last about 15 to 20 minutes, then he's just scared, weak and I'd say unsteady on his feet, and within an hour he seems back to normal, maybe a little bit tired is all. But I sincerely appreciate your thoughtfulness and we'll take all the prayers we can get. I'm just stumped, and need YorkieTalk advise!!!

[QUOTE=wemple2;1146152]Thank you for acknowledging my Lexxi and what I'm going through...
This website, I haven't read much, but there are 2 articles on the left side that are interesting to read - especially part 2. http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/
The website I really love is http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-...m/site_map.htm
A world of information here. AND they will get in touch with you via email, sometimes giving you a phone number to use, and will help answer any questions if you need them. It makes it so you don't feel so alone when you're dealing with one....

I'm so sorry that poor Winston had another episode...I know how scary that is :( I hope you\'re able to find out what\'s causing these episodes, and that it\'s curable.
As far as the question about an 8lb yorkie having a liver problem. The answer is yes. My yorkie is 11lbs and has liver shunt/mvd...Everyone thinks that it can only happen to tiny dogs, but that\'s not true. I know of at least two other "larger" yorkies that have liver issues. And if he has a liver issue, I highly recommend not using phenobarbitol as it will have a severe effect on the liver. Potassium bromide is preferred.
Keep us updated on your baby Winston. I really hope he gets better soon!!!