Sudden onset blindness...any help?

[jlangman]

After the surgery we had cooper on prescription ID canned food, after a couple months we switched him to dry dog food and everything was great for about 3 years. However about 3 months ago, he couldnt keep the food down and was throwing up all over our house.

we switched him back to ID for these last three months and hes kept that down for the most part. However it seems like if he gets even the smallest crumb off the floor he pukes up his entire stomach.

The only reason thyroid was mentioned is beacuse his thyroid levels have been high in all of the blood work samples weve gotten back, but the vet said that can be because hes sick.

can someone elaborate on MVD?

[jlangman]

unfortunately we do not have him on any supplements nor have we ever had him on any thing like lactulose. Never knew about it.

[TLC]

Jon...this really saddens me, I feel so bad for you and Cooper.

I am not sure what type of relationship you have with your Vet...BUT...honestly, I do not think they are very experienced with Liver Shunt dogs. I am beyond shocked, that your Vet has racked up $1200 in tests and a Bile Acid Test was only just done yesterday...On a known Liver Shunt Dog, a BAT should have been the first test done, especially when the dog is walking into walls and drooling. These are classic symptoms of Hepatic Encephalopathy (HE)
Hepatic Encephalopathy

Who did Cooper's Liver Shunt surgery? Was it your general Vet or a Specialist? What were is BATs result before the shunt surgery? What were his BAT results after the shunt was closed?

I am not sure how far you are from U of Tenn??? But Dr. Tobias and her team are the leaders in Liver Shunt Surgery, and honestly, if possible that is where I would be heading in your case now with Cooper.
Portosystemic Shunts

...in the meantime, I would call your Vet and insist on getting an Rx for BOTH Lactulose and Metronidazole.

If your Vet will write you a prescription, Walmart or Costco will fill a larger bottles of Lactulose at a very minimal cost. The Metro has to come from your Vet though.

* Lactulose, a disaccharide sugar containing galactose and fructose, is used for the treatment of hepatic encephalopathy in veterinary medicine. The active ingredient, lactulose, works by reducing the ammonia build up in the blood. The large number of resident bacteria in the intestine consumes the unabsorbed lactose as their food and release lactic, acetic, and formic acid and carbon dioxide gas. These acids draw fluid into the colon, softening the stool. The acidification of the bowel contents draws ammonia from the bloodstream and locks it there to be emitted with the stool. This action aids the prevention of a form of dementia called hepatic encephalopathy.

Dietary protein restriction is helpful to lessen signs of hepatic encephalopathy, and antibiotics such as neomycin or metronidazole and other medicines such as lactulose can reduce ammonia production and absorption in the intestines.

Next is diet. Most dogs do very well on ROYAL CANIN Veterinary Diet® canine HEPATIC LS™ 14 DRY food.

OR, Hills l/d WET food. (The Hills l/d DRY isn't really recommended, I think it has pork in it).

Whether you choose the RC Dry or Hills Wet - Cooper should be eating about 5 to 6 small meals a day. This may go into the night time too. But it is important, as this is Less Stress on his Liver.

He should also be getting supplements to aid his liver:
Supplements:
* Hepatosupport (capsules)- contains milk thistle and B vitamins (substitute for Marin)
* VetriDMG liquid (substitute for Denosyl)
The above both available at HomeVet© Natural Pet Care
If you call to place your first order and go over Coopers weight, etc.. The Vet there will write on the bottles how much Cooper should get daily. These two products are very easy to use, very easy on the dogs stomach, and pretty inexpensive.

OR

* Denamarin (Denosyl and Marin , but without the yeast and liver)
The Denamarin you have to either get from your Vet or you can get online. It is more costly than the two above, and you have to feed it whole and on an empty stomach, which can cause stomach upset.

And lastly, but VERY important...

Please join this group:
DogLiverDisease : Dog Liver Disease

This group has some much experience and knowledge with Liver Shunt Dogs it is really a blessing..They WILL help and Guide you even further to ensure you are doing the very best to help Cooper get better.

...Now for MVD...
MVD

Did they biopsy Cooper's liver when the repaired the shunt? Most surgeons will do this as well, bc a lot of times, dogs with a Liver Shunt also have MVD.

Also, dogs that have Liver Shunts repaired, then can shoot another shunt or acquire MVD down the road, that is why it is important to follow the above protocol for LS dogs, maintaining them with a special diet and supplements for the rest of their lives...

I think I have covered it all

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by jlangman

After the surgery we had cooper on prescription ID canned food, after a couple months we switched him to dry dog food and everything was great for about 3 years. However about 3 months ago, he couldnt keep the food down and was throwing up all over our house.

we switched him back to ID for these last three months and hes kept that down for the most part. However it seems like if he gets even the smallest crumb off the floor he pukes up his entire stomach.

The only reason thyroid was mentioned is beacuse his thyroid levels have been high in all of the blood work samples weve gotten back, but the vet said that can be because hes sick.

can someone elaborate on MVD?

thyroid high is hyperthyroid -hmmm did they do a 6 panel thyroid and i would recommend if so sending blood work to dr jean dodds at www.hemopet.com for a review - she is an expert on thyroid and blood work

are you sure it was not L/D instead of I/D and did they rule out pancreatitis with a cpli test? I/D has pork in it which is high in protein so that is not the ideal food for a liver shunt dog

here is info on thyroid

http://www.petplace.com/search.aspx?c=0&q=thyroid

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by TLC

Jon...this really saddens me, I feel so bad for you and Cooper.

I am not sure what type of relationship you have with your Vet...BUT...honestly, I do not think they are very experienced with Liver Shunt dogs. I am beyond shocked, that your Vet has racked up $1200 in tests and a Bile Acid Test was only just done yesterday...On a known Liver Shunt Dog, a BAT should have been the first test done, especially when the dog is walking into walls and drooling. These are classic symptoms of Hepatic Encephalopathy (HE)
Hepatic Encephalopathy

Who did Cooper's Liver Shunt surgery? Was it your general Vet or a Specialist? What were is BATs result before the shunt surgery? What were his BAT results after the shunt was closed?

I am not sure how far you are from U of Tenn??? But Dr. Tobias and her team are the leaders in Liver Shunt Surgery, and honestly, if possible that is where I would be heading in your case now with Cooper.
Portosystemic Shunts

...in the meantime, I would call your Vet and insist on getting an Rx for BOTH Lactulose and Metronidazole.

If your Vet will write you a prescription, Walmart or Costco will fill a larger bottles of Lactulose at a very minimal cost. The Metro has to come from your Vet though.

* Lactulose, a disaccharide sugar containing galactose and fructose, is used for the treatment of hepatic encephalopathy in veterinary medicine. The active ingredient, lactulose, works by reducing the ammonia build up in the blood. The large number of resident bacteria in the intestine consumes the unabsorbed lactose as their food and release lactic, acetic, and formic acid and carbon dioxide gas. These acids draw fluid into the colon, softening the stool. The acidification of the bowel contents draws ammonia from the bloodstream and locks it there to be emitted with the stool. This action aids the prevention of a form of dementia called hepatic encephalopathy.

Dietary protein restriction is helpful to lessen signs of hepatic encephalopathy, and antibiotics such as neomycin or metronidazole and other medicines such as lactulose can reduce ammonia production and absorption in the intestines.

Next is diet. Most dogs do very well on ROYAL CANIN Veterinary Diet® canine HEPATIC LS™ 14 DRY food.

OR, Hills l/d WET food. (The Hills l/d DRY isn't really recommended, I think it has pork in it).

Whether you choose the RC Dry or Hills Wet - Cooper should be eating about 5 to 6 small meals a day. This may go into the night time too. But it is important, as this is Less Stress on his Liver.

He should also be getting supplements to aid his liver:
Supplements:
* Hepatosupport (capsules)- contains milk thistle and B vitamins (substitute for Marin)
* VetriDMG liquid (substitute for Denosyl)
The above both available at HomeVet© Natural Pet Care
If you call to place your first order and go over Coopers weight, etc.. The Vet there will write on the bottles how much Cooper should get daily. These two products are very easy to use, very easy on the dogs stomach, and pretty inexpensive.

OR

* Denamarin (Denosyl and Marin , but without the yeast and liver)
The Denamarin you have to either get from your Vet or you can get online. It is more costly than the two above, and you have to feed it whole and on an empty stomach, which can cause stomach upset.

And lastly, but VERY important...

Please join this group:
DogLiverDisease : Dog Liver Disease

This group has some much experience and knowledge with Liver Shunt Dogs it is really a blessing..They WILL help and Guide you even further to ensure you are doing the very best to help Cooper get better.

...Now for MVD...
MVD

Did they biopsy Cooper's liver when the repaired the shunt? Most surgeons will do this as well, bc a lot of times, dogs with a Liver Shunt also have MVD.

Also, dogs that have Liver Shunts repaired, then can shoot another shunt or acquire MVD down the road, that is why it is important to follow the above protocol for LS dogs, maintaining them with a special diet and supplements for the rest of their lives...

I think I have covered it all

I agree 100% sounds like vet is not real familiar with liver shunt

[jlangman]

it was ID wet. Were callign our vet to get those supplements, and to switch him to LD today.

the bills have come from about 8 visits, three bloodworks, an xray to tell us the previous shunt fix looks to be in the right position, and now the bile acid test.

I dont think she once recomended the bile acid test, after 7 to 8 visits, shes saying its behaviorial (since we just had our second child, and cooper moved to number 3 on the list), and if it keeps on occuring to go see an internalist to get an ultrasound done (thats $520). We finally took him to the emergency vet yesterday to get a second opinion, and they were the ones to recommend a bile acid test.

thanks for all the info and feedback it really has helped.

[TLC]

Originally Posted by jlangman

it was ID wet. Were callign our vet to get those supplements, and to switch him to LD today.

the bills have come from about 8 visits, three bloodworks, an xray to tell us the previous shunt fix looks to be in the right position, and now the bile acid test.

I dont think she once recomended the bile acid test, after 7 to 8 visits, shes saying its behaviorial (since we just had our second child, and cooper moved to number 3 on the list), and if it keeps on occuring to go see an internalist to get an ultrasound done (thats $520). We finally took him to the emergency vet yesterday to get a second opinion, and they were the ones to recommend a bile acid test.

thanks for all the info and feedback it really has helped.

Oh my goodness...I am so sorry...

Your general Vet should have been well in turn to what HE symptoms are in a Liver Shunt Dog. I feel that a lot of time and money has been wasted and poor Cooper has been suffering. When dogs are displaying HE signs, they truly are hurting and not at all feeling well.

I am glad you will get him eating the right food, split into multiple small meals, and once you get him on the Lactulose and Metro they will rid his body of those horrible toxins...

Please keep us posted and join that Yahoo Group - they are wonderful

[jlangman]

Bile acid tests are back. apparantly normal numbers should be under 10. Cooper was at 380. She said that set an all time record at the emergency vet. Next step is to have an ultrasound done to find out if its an external shunt or an internal shunt.

[TLC]

OH NO!!!

Poor baby...He DEFINITLY blew another shunt

Are you anywhere near U of Tenn???
If you are, I would get a referral and setup to take Cooper to Dr. Tobias team.

While an ultra sound is good to see the shape and size of organs, it is ONLY 60% accurate in seeing a shunt, and the person reading the shunt as to be very skilled. If Cooper has a Large External Shunt, and the person reading the U/S is skilled, they "may" see the shunt, or they may not.

An ultrasound will NOT show any internal shunts and it will NOT show MVD.

To be honest, with a BAT of 380, I would skip the U/S and go straight for a
scintigraphy (you can read about it here)Portal Scintigraphy in Veterinary Medicine

You money is better spent with a scintigrah being done.

At U of Tenn, I beleive all the tests, including a scintragph AND liver shunt surgery is around $1300 to $1800 ~ which sounds like a lot, but I know that private speciality hospitals charge WAY more


Did you get him on the RIGHT food? And Lactulose and Metro???
Now more than ever, he REALLY needs this...that poor baby

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by jlangman

Bile acid tests are back. apparantly normal numbers should be under 10. Cooper was at 380. She said that set an all time record at the emergency vet. Next step is to have an ultrasound done to find out if its an external shunt or an internal shunt.

go straight to scintigraphy save your money on ultrasound. Who did this surgery prior? I would recommend getting to dr tobias in tennessee. Yorkies do not have internal shunts they are external - large dogs have internal shunts

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by TLC

OH NO!!!

Poor baby...He DEFINITLY blew another shunt

Are you anywhere near U of Tenn???
If you are, I would get a referral and setup to take Cooper to Dr. Tobias team.

While an ultra sound is good to see the shape and size of organs, it is ONLY 60% accurate in seeing a shunt, and the person reading the shunt as to be very skilled. If Cooper has a Large External Shunt, and the person reading the U/S is skilled, they "may" see the shunt, or they may not.

An ultrasound will NOT show any internal shunts and it will NOT show MVD.

To be honest, with a BAT of 380, I would skip the U/S and go straight for a
scintigraphy (you can read about it here)Portal Scintigraphy in Veterinary Medicine

You money is better spent with a scintigrah being done.

At U of Tenn, I beleive all the tests, including a scintragph AND liver shunt surgery is around $1300 to $1800 ~ which sounds like a lot, but I know that private speciality hospitals charge WAY more


Did you get him on the RIGHT food? And Lactulose and Metro???
Now more than ever, he REALLY needs this...that poor baby

agree 100% with this

who did this original surgery and did they use an ameroid constrictor or did they use cellophane as someone on here was talking about cellophane which i have not heard of being done

[lillymae]

Originally Posted by red98vett

That's FANTASTIC ! I had done a search looking for more info because I swear I've heard of that happening and it being temporary but couldn't find it ....but that is such great news for you ....and I really hope it was something that you will NEVER see again in her.....

I'm so happy for you...how nice to see a good outcome

Could you be thinking of Bella . She has Chiari and this dog has symptoms similar to hers. The sudden onset blindness is a symptom of Chiari also the drunken walking. This could be the missing piece to the puzzle.

[chandracz]

Prayers to you, your wife and furbutt xxxx