Bile Acid Test of Happy

[Ellie May]

Raw is not safe for dogs with liver disease. Premade raw is very high in protein. It looks low in protein because of all the moisture. Mathematically converting to dry matter, it is much higher. Liver compromised dogs also have compromised immune systems. And ut isn't just low vs high protein, but type of protein.

[concretegurl]

Your Dog's Itchy Skin

Vet reccomededs raw for kidbey liver failure and weakened immune systems

[Ellie May]

VND is not the same as DVM or VMD. This person is a vet tech interested in natural management.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

Where? By who?

That's right, contraindicated.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by happysparents

We had been to vet yesterday for Happys' blood test. We got results today, but results are not good.

The Bile level is 37 and I think the normal bile level is 25. Our vet asked to keep him on low protein food and continue giving Denosyl. All these days he was (and is) on RC Hepatic which is having 14% protein. He is also on low protein treats (they have around 10% protein). And we were expecting his bile acids to go down. But on the contrary they hav gone up.

Also we have another big concern - whether to neuter or not. Vet said that, it was recommended by lab (in which the blood tests were done) to get coagulation panel test done; in order to determine whehter blood would clot in required amount of time or not. According to them, it would be necessary to determine whether to neuter or not if blood does not clot within appropriate time.

Please advice if anyone has experienced similar issues.

Alright first for treats, veggies are a great treat, try all different kinds, my boys love carrots, beans, celery, sweet potatoe (you can get dried sweet potatoe), parsnips, et al. Most veggies are good, but NO ONIONs. Garlic is debatable, so I rarely add garlic to any homecooked treats I do.

My boys also love fruits. Blueberries, strawberries, bananas they just about die for. Apples I peel the skin off. Mangos, Papaya, pineapple et al.
No Raisins, currants, or figs. NO GRAPES. Watermelon is great too.

Neutering: I for sure would get a Full Blood Panel done, if the co-agulation test is something in addition to the Full Panel, then I would get that done too, particularly if your vet recommended one be done.

To neuter your pet or not, is a decision which should be made between you and your vet; taking into account "all" health concerns. Research for males in particular seem to indicate that there is no overweening health benefit to neutering.

If you decide or absolutely have to keep your boy intact, then I would ask the vet to guide me into what I should look for in terms of health issues with an un-neutered male. Testicular cancer although rare in un-neutered males does happen, so ask the vet what you should be looking for, as a responsible owner.

Some and I emphasize some, un-neutered males may mark more than neutered ones. And you would need to make sure your boy is NOT allowed to roam free off lead. Which I hope anyway you don't do.

The results of your BATS "might" be indicative of MVD. At this point for me I would be going to a specialist to see what they have to say, and to repeat the BATS, and then what ever other diagnostic tests are recommended.

Until I get a full assessment of the liver and or other critical organ functions I would not go with Raw. But once all test results are in, I would go with a canine nutritionist to establish a good raw diet.

[mimimomo]

Originally Posted by concretegurl

Blue Buffalo wilderness <--lower protein

Taste Of The Wild roasted wetlands foul <--I used this

Dog Food Reviews and Ratings | Dog Food Advisor

Have you considered raw, BARF or model prey raw feeding?

We love the Stella and Chewy's freeze dried patties.


P.S. We LOVE Zuke's Mini Naturals!

u don't recommend raw food for a dog w/liver issues...it's like telling an overweight person to eat more chocolates

stella & chewy's also has a very high fat content

[happysparents]

We think we cannot afford for preparing a home made recipe for Happy due to lack of time. We have to call VET tomorrow to know exactly how much protein can be given to Happy especially when his bile is 37. We think 18-20% should be feasible.
With that said, We are thinking of below foods,
1. Wellness Super5mix Healthy Weight - 18% protein
2. Natural Balance Vegetarian - 18% protein
3. Innova NEW Weight Management Adult Dry Dog Food - 20% protein
4. Firstmate Trim And Light - 18% protein

We believe all are good ones, but please share if you have any suggestions.

[happysparents]

Originally Posted by gemy

Alright first for treats, veggies are a great treat, try all different kinds, my boys love carrots, beans, celery, sweet potatoe (you can get dried sweet potatoe), parsnips, et al. Most veggies are good, but NO ONIONs. Garlic is debatable, so I rarely add garlic to any homecooked treats I do.

My boys also love fruits. Blueberries, strawberries, bananas they just about die for. Apples I peel the skin off. Mangos, Papaya, pineapple et al.
No Raisins, currants, or figs. NO GRAPES. Watermelon is great too.

Neutering: I for sure would get a Full Blood Panel done, if the co-agulation test is something in addition to the Full Panel, then I would get that done too, particularly if your vet recommended one be done.

To neuter your pet or not, is a decision which should be made between you and your vet; taking into account "all" health concerns. Research for males in particular seem to indicate that there is no overweening health benefit to neutering.

If you decide or absolutely have to keep your boy intact, then I would ask the vet to guide me into what I should look for in terms of health issues with an un-neutered male. Testicular cancer although rare in un-neutered males does happen, so ask the vet what you should be looking for, as a responsible owner.

Some and I emphasize some, un-neutered males may mark more than neutered ones. And you would need to make sure your boy is NOT allowed to roam free off lead. Which I hope anyway you don't do.

The results of your BATS "might" be indicative of MVD. At this point for me I would be going to a specialist to see what they have to say, and to repeat the BATS, and then what ever other diagnostic tests are recommended.

Until I get a full assessment of the liver and or other critical organ functions I would not go with Raw. But once all test results are in, I would go with a canine nutritionist to establish a good raw diet.

We already had done an ultrasound 1 month ago and specialist confirmed that Happy has mild MVD. The specialist however ruled out biopsy and asked us to keep him on low protein diet. However, we did not ask how much protein is safe since we were already in panic.

Happy was on Denosyl thereafter. Our regular VET asked us to come for another blood test after Denosyl was complete. This was done 3 days ago and his bile levels came as 37.

Happy is on RC Hepatic and is hating it. This is the reason why we are searching for another food. We have posted 4 probables in previous post. Any suggestions are welcome.

[Ellie May]

It is really variable by specialist. Some don't even believe in low protein for mild, asymptomatic MVD.

The foods you listed are not made for liver disease, so the types of protein may not be best for the liver. Some do use the NB Veg. It really is a matter of seeing what the specialist wants. L/D is a good food but high in fat.

[happysparents]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

It is really variable by specialist. Some don't even believe in low protein for mild, asymptomatic MVD.

The foods you listed are not made for liver disease, so the types of protein may not be best for the liver. Some do use the NB Veg. It really is a matter of seeing what the specialist wants. L/D is a good food but high in fat.

I found an article on Milk Thistle - http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...ml#post3992438

My question is whether we can put Happy on Milk Thistle or keep him on Denosyl tablets? Feeding tablets is a challenge for us

[107barney]

Originally Posted by happysparents

I found an article on Milk Thistle - http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...ml#post3992438

My question is whether we can put Happy on Milk Thistle or keep him on Denosyl tablets? Feeding tablets is a challenge for us

Check out Marin. It's milk thistle for dogs. It's very palatable, and my dog always readily ate it. Be careful with liquid milk thistles as they often times have a lot of alcohol in them. Denamarin is a combo of Marin and denosyl. I don't use them with my dog unless she flares up with a liver infection.

My dog Daisy has MVD. She ate Hill's L/D canned for a while and did ok. RC Hepatic made her sick. The other food you might consider is Purina HA - my dog did ok on that as well and it's low in fat. She mostly eats home cooked food. Her protein is at around 16% but as Ellie May said that depends on the specialist and the dog. My dog cannot eat meat of any kind nor fish of any kind. She can eat eggs and vegetarian sources of protein only.

Your specialist should be able to advise you about food or else just ask your vet. Personally, I wouldn't feed any of the foods you listed.

[concretegurl]

Vital is 11%a and 13%that crude in the higheat proteins.

Go with whatever you feel confident in.
The link I posted on raw was the first in a google search.
In all honesty if your dog is in a critical state making drastic changes isnt the best idea IMO.
There are other low protein diet specialty foods out there (kibble and homecook)
Its more important to get tge veterinary nutricianists content recomendations and choose a food from that.

I bet my dogs lives on raw but if it isnt in you r dogs best interest or someyhing you can put the effort of finances research etc I'll be the first to tell you to go another route.

For what its worth I'd go with Innova as I have fed it before but many here claim sucess with wellness something I've never fed.

Otger than that goodluck and anything you cgoose is going to require trial and research.

[tem_sat]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Raw is not safe for dogs with liver disease.

That is a very sweeping assumption.

1. What was fed? Exact amounts, foods, and sources should be cited in addition to length of time fed.

2. What were the issues that each dog was trying to overcome? Age, weight, breed, test results, patient history, etc.

3. Where are the studies substantiating this?

I respectfully would state that each owner should make their own decision based upon what they are comfortable with. Unless a boarded vet nutritionist with years of experience feeding PMR attempted to convince me otherwise, I would be a very difficult client to advise.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by tem_sat

That is a very sweeping assumption.

1. What was fed? Exact amounts, foods, and sources should be cited in addition to length of time fed.

2. What were the issues that each dog was trying to overcome? Age, weight, breed, test results, patient history, etc.

3. Where are the studies substantiating this?

I respectfully would state that each owner should make their own decision based upon what they are comfortable with. Unless a boarded vet nutritionist with years of experience feeding PMR attempted to convince me otherwise, I would be a very difficult client to advise.

Well good thing you don't have a liver compromised dog then. Walk a mile my friend and you'd be surprised at what you'd do.

[tem_sat]

Originally Posted by 107barney

Well good thing you don't have a liver compromised dog then. Walk a mile my friend and you'd be surprised at what you'd do.

Obviously, I respect your experience and I feel comfortable stating that you would go to ends of the earth for your pets, however, that is unrelated to my post. To the OP, clearly you should weigh 107barney's advice as more credible than mine, but I am in no way stating what diet is acceptable. I am simply seeking further information.