Zada isn't doing very well!! - Page 6 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

kjc · 03-15-2012, 04:06 PM

Sending up prayers for little Zada....

Yorkiedaze · 03-15-2012, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Ask your vet about trying Lomotil. One of my CT pups was on it and he did improve with it. If your vet is not familiar with its use, tell him it is in on of the Kirk's Veterinary Therapy Manuals.
If her oxygen level is good, that is a good thing. The last pup I had would sound just dreadful but he did not need oxygen. Keep an eye on the color of her gums and tongue...if they are turning a bluish color, then you know the oxygen level is down.

I did ask the Vet. today abut Lomotil and she said it's for diarrhea, so she didn't recommend it.

ladyjane · 03-15-2012, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorkiedaze

I did ask the Vet. today abut Lomotil and she said it's for diarrhea, so she didn't recommend it.

Well, all I can say is that I have read it in Kirk's Veterinary Therapy and it DOES help CT pups! It was written there for just that purpose!

Yes, it is for diarrhea, but many meds are used for purposes other than what they were originally marketed for. This is very common.

I am sorry your vet would say something like that without looking into this. I have seen it work for pups who had problems breathing...one of them in my home and another at a friend's home.

Is it a magical cure? No. It is just another med that is used to help with the symptoms of this horrible condition.

Yorkiedaze · 03-15-2012, 04:22 PM

Well Zada has had a bad day again today. The Vet. did call Dr. Ortega to update her and see if there was anything else they could do and Dr. Ortega said to start Zada on Doxycycline in case of a secondary infection. I just gave her the inhaler because her breathing is much too labored and wheezing. If she gets worse, they will admit her again. I really don't know what's going to happen at this point, but I have a feeling it isn't going to be good. I don't think she's going to get over this episode. Her little body is going to give out I'm afraid.

ladyjane · 03-15-2012, 04:28 PM

I am copying an old post of mine that further explains the use of Lomotil. Here is the post it is from.
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/3280312-post15.html

--------------

I am not sure that is the correct volume of Kirk's. Some of them do not have it. I had posted a link with that book to show the book itself. We looked through about 5 volumes one day until we found it so I could copy it.

I only used Lomotil on one pup. He was acutely ill and we needed to do something different. That is why the Lomotil was tried on him. Yes, it may be controversial in that some may not get good results. No medicine is going to work for all pups all of the time. I can only tell you that it did help my foster...and also helped a friend's yorkie who had a terrible case of CT. Her husband is a vet and he also had not heard of it, but he has now. Both pups have since passed, but the Lomotil helped both of them for a period of time.

My vet stays very current on all treatments and does a lot of researching. She also does rounds bi weekly with the specialists in this area who also give her the newest and latest treatments for various illnesses and conditions.

What I can tell you is that we were grasping at straws for little Ozzy. His CT was awful. He coughed almost continuously. He did not often need oxygen, but did at times; and we needed to find a way to try to reduce that awful cough. We tried many, many different medications. (and of course other things such as weight management and cool dry temperatures) and Lomotil was finally introduced and I did see a dramatic improvement for a period of time. Sadly, after about six months of him really going bad, he passed away on Christmas eve 2009. I was heartbroken and still have terrible moments when I think of him. I honestly hope to never have another CT pup in my home. He was my third.

Below is taken from Kirk's Veterinary Therapy:

Antitussive Agents: Cough suppressants are recommended to reduce chronic irritation or damage to the epithelium caused by collaps of the dorsal membrane and to reduce shearing forsces within the lung associated with chronic coughing. A variety of drugs are available, but the authors have had greatest success using co-phenotrope (Lomotil, Searle), which contains diphenoxylate hudrochloride and atropine.* The diphenoxylate acts as a narcotic antitussive agent and the atropine reduces the volume of mucus secreted into the lower repiratory tract and also acts as an antimuscarinic bronchodilator.
*Co-phenotrope is not in widespread use as an antitussive agent in the US, and no clinical trials demonstrating efficacy and safety for this indication have been published. The potential adverse effects of atropine on the viscosity of airway secretions warrant further investigation before its widespread application.

ladyjane · 03-15-2012, 04:35 PM

This link talks about varying the treatments to fit the pup. I know that we had to change things a few times for my last CT pup...and worked with all kinds of different meds. In the end, he did pass but I was able to keep him stable for much longer than would have been. Lomotil worked very well for him as I have said.

Tracheal Collapse Small Animal Hospital College of Veterinary Medicine University of Florida

Agents used to control coughing at UF include butorphanol, hydrocodone and more recently Diphenoxylate and atropine ( Lomotil) . In times of decompensation I will often sedate the dog with acepromazine and add a low dose of prednisone to help reduce mucosal inflammation.

I find that individual dogs respond differently to different agents and each dog usually ends up with a different regimen. I have little experience with glucorticoid inhalants, or bronchodilators such as theophylline or torbutaline but these are used by some.

ladyjane · 03-15-2012, 04:39 PM

Another link that you might want to read ... it is the case history of a yorkie with CT....

Case Report: Tracheal collapse in a six-year-old Yorkshire Terrier - Tappin - 2012 - Companion Animal - Wiley Online Library

lisaly · 03-15-2012, 05:25 PM

I am so sorry about Zada. The thing that strikes me most about Yorkie Talk is how much the people on this forum care for their babies and go out of their way to help each other with the knowledge they have. I have learned so much here, and one thing that stuck in my mind was when Linda spoke about Lomotril for use with pups with collapsed trachea. Having had a baby with this dreadful disease, I know there is no easy treatment, and sometimes our vets can't help us. My heart is breaking for you, and I hope your baby improves.

Yorkiedaze · 03-15-2012, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Well, all I can say is that I have read it in Kirk's Veterinary Therapy and it DOES help CT pups! It was written there for just that purpose!

Yes, it is for diarrhea, but many meds are used for purposes other than what they were originally marketed for. This is very common.

I am sorry your vet would say something like that without looking into this. I have seen it work for pups who had problems breathing...one of them in my home and another at a friend's home.

Is it a magical cure? No. It is just another med that is used to help with the symptoms of this horrible condition.

I'm sure it's helpful, but she didn't want to give Zada something that could actually make her stools too hard. She's really a great Vet. though.

Yorkiedaze · 03-15-2012, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I am copying an old post of mine that further explains the use of Lomotil. Here is the post it is from.
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/3280312-post15.html

--------------

I am not sure that is the correct volume of Kirk's. Some of them do not have it. I had posted a link with that book to show the book itself. We looked through about 5 volumes one day until we found it so I could copy it.

I only used Lomotil on one pup. He was acutely ill and we needed to do something different. That is why the Lomotil was tried on him. Yes, it may be controversial in that some may not get good results. No medicine is going to work for all pups all of the time. I can only tell you that it did help my foster...and also helped a friend's yorkie who had a terrible case of CT. Her husband is a vet and he also had not heard of it, but he has now. Both pups have since passed, but the Lomotil helped both of them for a period of time.

My vet stays very current on all treatments and does a lot of researching. She also does rounds bi weekly with the specialists in this area who also give her the newest and latest treatments for various illnesses and conditions.

What I can tell you is that we were grasping at straws for little Ozzy. His CT was awful. He coughed almost continuously. He did not often need oxygen, but did at times; and we needed to find a way to try to reduce that awful cough. We tried many, many different medications. (and of course other things such as weight management and cool dry temperatures) and Lomotil was finally introduced and I did see a dramatic improvement for a period of time. Sadly, after about six months of him really going bad, he passed away on Christmas eve 2009. I was heartbroken and still have terrible moments when I think of him. I honestly hope to never have another CT pup in my home. He was my third.

Below is taken from Kirk's Veterinary Therapy:

Antitussive Agents: Cough suppressants are recommended to reduce chronic irritation or damage to the epithelium caused by collaps of the dorsal membrane and to reduce shearing forsces within the lung associated with chronic coughing. A variety of drugs are available, but the authors have had greatest success using co-phenotrope (Lomotil, Searle), which contains diphenoxylate hudrochloride and atropine.* The diphenoxylate acts as a narcotic antitussive agent and the atropine reduces the volume of mucus secreted into the lower repiratory tract and also acts as an antimuscarinic bronchodilator.
*Co-phenotrope is not in widespread use as an antitussive agent in the US, and no clinical trials demonstrating efficacy and safety for this indication have been published. The potential adverse effects of atropine on the viscosity of airway secretions warrant further investigation before its widespread application.

I am so very sorry you had all the heartaches that come with having a CT dog. How horrible it is to watch them slowly die. I too hope I never have another one. It's horrible!!

ladyjane · 03-15-2012, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorkiedaze

I'm sure it's helpful, but she didn't want to give Zada something that could actually make her stools too hard. She's really a great Vet. though.

It does not make their stools hard!

ladyjane · 03-15-2012, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorkiedaze

I am so very sorry you had all the heartaches that come with having a CT dog. How horrible it is to watch them slowly die. I too hope I never have another one. It's horrible!!

It is indeed horrible....the only thing we can do is to love them and make their time here as good as we can. Knowing when to let them go is the hardest. In Ozzy's case, in the end it was not my decision.

I feel awful for you..I so understand the helpless feelings.

Pink Dog · 03-15-2012, 05:51 PM

I'm still saying prayers for Zada!!!

Yorkiedaze · 03-15-2012, 06:30 PM

God bless each and every one of you and your babies. Treasure every single moment with them because life can surly throw you a curve when you least expect it.

Yorkiemom1 · 03-15-2012, 06:56 PM

Lomotil has Atropine in it.........it acts as a bronchodilator! Dosing is important...different doses of a drug can be used for different issues....Lomotil can be used for diarrhea, usually is....but with different dosing, it CAN be an effective bronchodilator and "mucolytic" agent, drying up secretions. She may be giving Zada atropine and mucomyst inhalation treatments.......

03-15-2012, 04:06 PM	#76
kjc I♥PeekTinkySaph&Finny Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 18,872	Sending up prayers for little Zada.... __________________ Kat Chloe Lizzy PeekABooTinkerbell SapphireInfinity

03-15-2012, 04:22 PM	#79
Yorkiedaze My hairy-legged girls Donating Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: lompoc, ca. Posts: 12,228	Well Zada has had a bad day again today. The Vet. did call Dr. Ortega to update her and see if there was anything else they could do and Dr. Ortega said to start Zada on Doxycycline in case of a secondary infection. I just gave her the inhaler because her breathing is much too labored and wheezing. If she gets worse, they will admit her again. I really don't know what's going to happen at this point, but I have a feeling it isn't going to be good. I don't think she's going to get over this episode. Her little body is going to give out I'm afraid. __________________ AZRAEL RAZAEL JILLI ANN

03-15-2012, 04:28 PM	#80
ladyjane Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 27,490	I am copying an old post of mine that further explains the use of Lomotil. Here is the post it is from. http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/3280312-post15.html -------------- I am not sure that is the correct volume of Kirk's. Some of them do not have it. I had posted a link with that book to show the book itself. We looked through about 5 volumes one day until we found it so I could copy it. I only used Lomotil on one pup. He was acutely ill and we needed to do something different. That is why the Lomotil was tried on him. Yes, it may be controversial in that some may not get good results. No medicine is going to work for all pups all of the time. I can only tell you that it did help my foster...and also helped a friend's yorkie who had a terrible case of CT. Her husband is a vet and he also had not heard of it, but he has now. Both pups have since passed, but the Lomotil helped both of them for a period of time. My vet stays very current on all treatments and does a lot of researching. She also does rounds bi weekly with the specialists in this area who also give her the newest and latest treatments for various illnesses and conditions. What I can tell you is that we were grasping at straws for little Ozzy. His CT was awful. He coughed almost continuously. He did not often need oxygen, but did at times; and we needed to find a way to try to reduce that awful cough. We tried many, many different medications. (and of course other things such as weight management and cool dry temperatures) and Lomotil was finally introduced and I did see a dramatic improvement for a period of time. Sadly, after about six months of him really going bad, he passed away on Christmas eve 2009. I was heartbroken and still have terrible moments when I think of him. I honestly hope to never have another CT pup in my home. He was my third. Below is taken from Kirk's Veterinary Therapy: Antitussive Agents: Cough suppressants are recommended to reduce chronic irritation or damage to the epithelium caused by collaps of the dorsal membrane and to reduce shearing forsces within the lung associated with chronic coughing. A variety of drugs are available, but the authors have had greatest success using co-phenotrope (Lomotil, Searle), which contains diphenoxylate hudrochloride and atropine.* The diphenoxylate acts as a narcotic antitussive agent and the atropine reduces the volume of mucus secreted into the lower repiratory tract and also acts as an antimuscarinic bronchodilator. Co-phenotrope is not in widespread use as an antitussive agent in the US, and no clinical trials demonstrating efficacy and safety for this indication have been published. The potential adverse effects of atropine on the viscosity of airway secretions warrant further investigation before its widespread application. __________________ CLOUD NINE BEDS--YORKIE HAVEN RESCUE* MY ETSY SHOP

03-15-2012, 04:35 PM	#81
ladyjane Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 27,490	This link talks about varying the treatments to fit the pup. I know that we had to change things a few times for my last CT pup...and worked with all kinds of different meds. In the end, he did pass but I was able to keep him stable for much longer than would have been. Lomotil worked very well for him as I have said. Tracheal Collapse Small Animal Hospital College of Veterinary Medicine University of Florida Agents used to control coughing at UF include butorphanol, hydrocodone and more recently Diphenoxylate and atropine ( Lomotil) . In times of decompensation I will often sedate the dog with acepromazine and add a low dose of prednisone to help reduce mucosal inflammation. I find that individual dogs respond differently to different agents and each dog usually ends up with a different regimen. I have little experience with glucorticoid inhalants, or bronchodilators such as theophylline or torbutaline but these are used by some. __________________ CLOUD NINE BEDS--YORKIE HAVEN RESCUE MY ETSY SHOP

03-15-2012, 04:39 PM	#82
ladyjane Resident Yorkie Nut Donating YT 20K Club Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 27,490	Another link that you might want to read ... it is the case history of a yorkie with CT.... Case Report: Tracheal collapse in a six-year-old Yorkshire Terrier - Tappin - 2012 - Companion Animal - Wiley Online Library __________________ CLOUD NINE BEDS--YORKIE HAVEN RESCUE MY ETSY SHOP

03-15-2012, 05:25 PM	#83
lisaly Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 5,892	I am so sorry about Zada. The thing that strikes me most about Yorkie Talk is how much the people on this forum care for their babies and go out of their way to help each other with the knowledge they have. I have learned so much here, and one thing that stuck in my mind was when Linda spoke about Lomotril for use with pups with collapsed trachea. Having had a baby with this dreadful disease, I know there is no easy treatment, and sometimes our vets can't help us. My heart is breaking for you, and I hope your baby improves.

03-15-2012, 05:51 PM	#88
Pink Dog Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Louisiana Posts: 223	I'm still saying prayers for Zada!!! __________________ ~Dogs love you no matter what~

03-15-2012, 06:30 PM	#89
Yorkiedaze My hairy-legged girls Donating Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: lompoc, ca. Posts: 12,228	God bless each and every one of you and your babies. Treasure every single moment with them because life can surly throw you a curve when you least expect it. __________________ AZRAEL RAZAEL JILLI ANN

03-15-2012, 06:56 PM	#90
Yorkiemom1 Rosehill Yorkies Donating YT Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 9,462	Lomotil has Atropine in it.........it acts as a bronchodilator! Dosing is important...different doses of a drug can be used for different issues....Lomotil can be used for diarrhea, usually is....but with different dosing, it CAN be an effective bronchodilator and "mucolytic" agent, drying up secretions. She may be giving Zada atropine and mucomyst inhalation treatments.......