New meds and serious scare for Elvis - YorkieTalk.com Forums

concretegurl · 12-23-2011, 03:10 PM

After almost a year of treating Elvis' seizure with a "natural safe substance" we were still seeing only declined seizure activity, 2-3 every 4 months).

Last night Elvis went into a seizure around 7 p.m. and it was proceeded by 11 more in a 2 1/2 hour time period. All lasting about 30 seconds to one minute each. It was the worse than Elvis has ever been, I hated waiting kept expecting his meds to "work" but it wasn't happening. Thankfully my mom answered her phone & was able to come watch the kids ( who were going to bed but got back up as everything was so "exciting" with Elvis seizing & Scoobers freaking out just before each of Elvis' seizures). Scoobers literally screams, circles and whines trying to get to me & Elvis going into a complete panic.

After once again frantic calls to our vet, messages (Elvis sees a different vet than my other two whom has more experience with epileptic dogs) our vet after hours emergency number was unresponsive,, I tried Scoobers & Priness' vet-no luck out of town for the holiday directed patients to the 24 hr emergency clinic, and we were directed to use the 24 hr service at another vet's practice-a 15 minute drive to the next city over. I had anticipate either a something suppository (as done before) or a Valium shot).

I've been so frustrated with his course of treatment thus far (I know I don't talk about it on here a lot because I wouldn't want to recommend/encourage something adverse to what I feel is actually working for us) and we're supposed to go back to Davis in July for a check in MRI to determine the damage suffered and an evaluation & recommendation of treatment.

Well the vet we saw last night went briefly over what Elvis has been tested for and his current treatment and what we've been going through-half way through me discussing the advice I've been following he cut me off to say "this is complete bs!" He went on to say he has heard of his own son being told by another practitioner (vet) the same as I was being told and that some neurologists aren't as proactive as they should be small dogs do better on pheno than not, and the other medications aren't as
I was really taken back at first but he understood what I had been told and had 'come up against this before' with his own son seeking treatment for a chihuahua. He suggested another neurologist who he follows recommendations of and then went on to say he and this guy are working on the premise one seizure is one too many and under medication a dog shouldn't be having any seizures or obviously the medication regiment is inadequate.

he declined a Valium injection giving Elvis a Pheno. shot and sending me home with pheno. He said what so many on YT have said pheno. is perfectly fine for small dogs the anti-pheno treatment is only the attitude of those who do not consistently follow up with monitoring and regular checking of liver function and the liver processing the pheno.

Elvis immediately became calm and has gone over 12 hours without a seizure. We have a follow up there...they are taking new patients.
Hopefully we will getting on the right track now.

I know the internet isn't the place to seek advice but it was and has been very complicated to understand the advice or experts verses others saying their experts are treating their dogs in a different way.

Honestly now I'm just feeling like I wasn't more informed and not accepting the usual treatment like so many were-I was completely uniformed passively "trying" new treatments instead of following what works for everyone else.

Really hoping a pheno is the answer for Elvis, it is for so many others here.
Hoping everything will work out with this new vet, have to call back in three days if all goes well for a check in and schedule labs in 30 days to ensure this is the right treatment.

yorkieusa · 12-23-2011, 03:26 PM

Poor Elvis. I hope he will continue to do well on the phenobarbitol. Sending special hugs for your little fellow.

Patti · 12-23-2011, 03:49 PM

I hope Elvis continues to be seizure free.

AllDogBoots · 12-23-2011, 04:34 PM

This must have been terribly scary for you!!! I hope no damage was done to poor Elvis.

Max has been on phenobarbital for about 1 1/2 years now. He started it when he was 12 weeks old. It took quite a few weeks to regulate his levels and his system. I am extremely happy to say that since he's been regulated, he has only had one episode (which the vets think might have been a seizure). About 6 months ago I started Max on a daily liver supplement, Denamarin, which has since proven to lower his liver levels as per our last liver blood test. Although my vet says I only need to check his liver once per year, I'm slightly pro-active (ok, paranoid) and I test him once every 6 months.

Max has done incredibly well on phenobarbital and I'm hopeful Elvis will too. Please contact me if you would like more information about our experience with this drug.

107barney · 12-23-2011, 04:50 PM

I'm sorry that you had such a scare with Elvis. I too have an epileptic dog, and I worry about him.

I guess in reading your story, my first red flag would have been the advice to have an MRI in July to assess "damage" done and "determine treatment." I would have immediately sought a second opinion as I would not be comfortable with the advice that seems to suggest damage might occur and might need to be assessed. I'd be wondering what the MRI in July's benchmark would be for comparison (especially if there has not been an MRI previously). Why wait, especially if one has never been done before?

I've read quite a bit on the drugs used for epilepsy in dogs, including new first line treatments since my dog happens to be on one of the "newer" drugs. While phenobarbital is tried and true, it can come with a price, and many board certified neurologists (i.e. Dewey, Sisson, Windsor and others) are now choosing other drugs (e.g., keppra, zonisamide) as first level drug for dogs. Some of these newer drugs have less side effects and have been shown to be effective seizure control.

I have never been told by any vet who has reviewed Teddy's record or has seen Teddy in his short three year life (including two board certified neurologists, two regular vets, and a board certified internist) that he will NEVER have another seizure. We are concerned with the progression of seizures and the frightening possibility of life threatening status epilepticus, and that is why we choose to medicate our dog.

I prefer to deal only with a neurologist to manage my dog's epilepsy, but, that's your judgment to make, not mine. I would not rely on a general vet such as this one for an opinion. I'm not sure if some of these other drugs might work for Elvis, but I'm almost certain that you'd find about them only through a board certified neurologist.

I hope Elvis' case can be well managed and you find something that is effective for him. Phenobarbital is not the only drug that is effective for epilepsy and while some dogs do great on it, it can have serious side effects. Having said that, if my dog needed it, I'd put him on it, but for us, it simply has not been recommended.

Best wishes.

kjc · 12-23-2011, 05:14 PM

Don't feel bad, seems like what you were doing was working for a year. As my DD's neuro explains it (for people w/seizures) no matter which med is used, to reach a seizure free state may severely impact one's quality of life, as it does in her case. Our goal to to allow her to be at the highest functioning level she can attain, on the lowest amount of medication needed that controls her seizures. He said to eliminate her seizures completely, the amount of medication she would need to take would keep her in a catatonic state or basically non functioning and unable to interact or do anything. He allows us to make the choice, as to her seizure frequency, what we are comfortable with (with his recommendations).

That said, all individuals are different, and response to medications can vary. Some meds may work for a time, some conditions build a resistance to medications which then need to be changed, and some folks and pets may not be able to even take certain meds. You just have to work with the individual and the vet to maintain a suitable level of existance the majority of the time.

RachelandSadie · 12-23-2011, 05:49 PM

i'm sorry to hear about Elvis but wishing you guys the best with the new meds. i hope the phenobarb works well for him. it's a pretty common one to use with seizures so i'm sure he'll do well.

good luck and God Bless you all.

kjc · 12-23-2011, 08:38 PM

Another thing to ask your vet is what to do in an emergency. Are there meds you can keep at home if he goes into a seizure? With my DD, I would crush a Valium and rub it into her gums during a seizure, even before calling 911.

There are different thoughts on this subject also... some believe one should do nothing and let the seizure progress naturally. I am on the other side and will do anything to bring her out of one as quickly as possible.

alaskayorkie · 12-23-2011, 09:02 PM

Sounds terrifying. I'm glad you found someone who seems to have him on the right track.

That's so frustrating to place all your trust in a vet, only to have another vet discount the advice. I don't think I'll ever trust one vet's opinion without getting a second, or third, opinion again.

concretegurl · 12-23-2011, 10:23 PM

Thank you so much everyone. I read over each of your posts here and it really helps to feel so supported and not alone in this.

It has been a long struggle, too long.

We have had a neurological consult, a few months after I got Elvis after his first set of seizures, but because Elvis has cluster seizures in a spirratic pattern that has never been more than one session or cluster of them any closer than 3 months apart she recommended to be without medication.
Th neurologist didn't recommended bring him to her for full treatment until several steps had been accomplished with our veterinarian here.

Elvis was going for his second consult to access damage and evaluation of a treatment plan in July, which would be based on the seizure pattern.

So far the assessment of damage I see in his behavior has been Elvis seems to already have optical damage from the pressure on his optical nerve during seizures-he walks into things but randomly or is suddenly surprised when he touches something so it appears to be a depth perception issue in his right eye (he only walks into walls etc on his right side) but it was "cloudy" on the scan also he seems to have lost his sense of smell (if he really had it at all when I first got him) my other dogs can sniff something out right away Elvis seems to have about the sense of smell of a person he smells things but has to exert a lot of effort to find it while my other dogs sniff it and go right to the smell.

Elvis also has knocked one tooth during a seizure-he had horrible dental issues when he came to me and despite originally being told we should consider having all his teeth pulled we have saved them at least for now) he literally jumped up from sleeping flew off the couch tried to run to me ran right past me and smacked into the brick fire place before falling over into constriction.

Of course I was told to call back and schedule sooner if things worsened...but really we need someone on hand here not 7 hours away.

Then I was stressed because he started to exhibit more of them in a closer succession so we started alternative treatments and basically triage (giving Valuim to interrupt after he had a seizure) nd he did receive (annal a potassium something) but he was only on an alternative medication for the last almost year and it obviously wasn't working.

I'm feeling bad that I was doing all of this alternative treatments and going back and forth with conflicting advice and then what everyone was saying seemed common sense and I wasn't proactive enough being responsible for his care to make this decision before.

I was really relieved to hear one seizure is one too many and to feel justified in not being the crazy over zealous dog owner who thinks they know more than the experts. I went from being confused about this in the beginning to being frustrated it wasn't "fixed" right away, then frustrated I

Alldogboots thank you so much for that advice! I will definitely follow your lead and insist on it ever 6 months then. I was previously so worried after the concern of liver issues that in my mind anyone suggesting pheno was following and old school treatment that was harmful-however I have to swallow my pride say I don't know what I'm talking about if it is working for others then I owe it to Elvis to try it-obviously what I was choosing wasn't working and it has been to his detriment.

I have noticed he is a little lethargic with the pheno, but then again he is always very lethargic after a set of seizures (also very edgy and anxious with both seem to translate into him just curling up on my feet or lap and literally not only being with me 24:7 but he has to be actually touching me somehow).

Every-time this happens I go through this whole emotional phase of at first being so panicked, then mad because this is all so unfair, and then I catch myself up and try to figure out what to know, do next and to evaluate and process the next course of action.

It's so especially unfair he's such a great little (well big for a Yorkie) buy who already has enough medical issues epilepsy is just the icing on his short stick cake.

I'm ready for this to be the cure or treatment that works, but I'm realizing I have to acknowledge this is forever and I'll probably have to reevaluate the next course of treatment with the vet & new neurology consult over the next 6 months or year all over again.

I really do appreciate how supportive and caring everyone is. Love you al so much kisses from Elvis and our whole family to you all.

concretegurl · 12-23-2011, 10:33 PM

Oh and the vet we just vet follows a Dr. Dewey (neurologist).

Has anyone seen him before?

Apparently he puts on an annual seminar in California.

Mom to Hot Rod · 12-24-2011, 01:19 AM

I do not have any experience with any of this just wanted to send you and Elvis big hugs. Hopefully this treatment will work for him. It's so scary when you are not sure who to listen to. I agree, second and possibly 3rd opinions are the tools that we have. Best of luck.

kjc · 12-24-2011, 02:16 AM

There are some issues I spotted in your post that give me concern... see highlighted text below:

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