knee issues / possible surgery??

[Critter]

I was told long time ago that one of my yorkies would need surgery, that he had a loose knee cap. The doctor said he didnt want to do it until we knew it was really bothering him. Samson walks with a little skip in his walk but doesnt seem to mind. Well yesterday he really started limping and his leg is more stiff. When he goes outside to pee he wont put full weight on it to lift his leg so will then switch legs but then cant lift that leg to pee. I called the doctor but they cant get him in till Monday. We made sure he rested the afternoon. This morning it is much better but you can tell it is still bothering him. He will put full weight on both legs to see what's on a table so I know its not hurting him too bad, he is running when he really wants to see something (ex someone at the front door) but I know he needs to be looked at. Can someone tell me their experience with loose knee caps, at what point did your doctor do the surgery and what that experience was like for both you and your dog. This makes me so nervous. He is my baby.

Thanks in advance!!
Cris

[MaddiesMommie]

I have no experience with this issue but think I would be planning a visit to a specialist for this. It sounds like it is definitly bothering him and I am guessing it has to be painful. I hope your little guy is able to see the vet Monday. Please keep us updated on what the vet decides Monday.

[ArmaniMan]

I would recommend you get a board certified orthopedic surgeon to look at your pup. They are the only ones who should be doing the surgery any way. They will grade the knee, most surgeons only do surgery when the knee gets to a 4, although some will do it sooner. My Chloe has LP that is a grade 1, at this point she is just on a supplement called Dasaquin. The decision about whether to do surgery or not also depends on the effect it is having on your dogs life.

[gemy]

There are many threads on here about loose kneecaps, technically known as LP or Luxating Patella. An orthopaedic surgeon is best qualified to diagnose the grade 1 on up to 5, and then based on your pups clinical symptoms, recommend if now is the time for surgery, and specifically what type of surgery he is recommending.

Your vet should be able to recommend a board certified orthopaedic surgeon and can refer you to that particular person. They also like to do their own Xrays, and of course their own physical examination to assess throughly your pup.

Each dog is unique in the way the can manifest their symptoms, some live quite happily for years and may never have to have surgery, some need surgery quite early in their lives.

For now and until specifically told otherwise by the expert, do not allow your boy to jump up or down off couches or chairs , or beds. This action can and often times exacerbates the symptoms. You can apply a little cool pack to the affected knee, and also if you are getting some really hot weather as we have here, fill a kiddy pool with cool/cold water and play with your pup in the water. This has a dual benefit, the cool hydrotherapy can reduce both swelling and inflammation and therefor pain, and the pup gets to play and exercise as safely as possible. It also serves the purpose to keep the muscles surrounding the knee joint strong. If you don't have a kiddy pool, a bathtub with a non slip mat on the bottom, will serve the purpose.

If you do a search on here for LP or LP surgery, you will find lots of threads, as this is a very common problem not only with the Yorkies but almost all of the toy breed dogs.

I do sincerely hope that you pup can go some more years without surgery, but only the orthopaedic surgeon can advise you of this.

Good luck keep us updated.

[ArmaniMan]

i will add that my parents have a toy poodle who required surgery before age 1... she recovered very well from the surgery and is now just about 6 and lives a perfectly normal life, the worst part about the surgery/ recovery was keeping her quiet for the recommended period of time, she was up and ready to go in a much shorter period. So even if surgery does become necessary, it will be okay.

[Critter]

thanks this is very helpful. He does have an appt mon morning with his regular vet, I will ask about him being referred to a specialist. They have done that before when my other dog had some eye issues. I didnt know about the grade of the knees so this is helpful. I do hope he doesnt have to have surgery, it makes me nervous, he is so tiny (4lbs). We are keeping him from jumping and running as much as we can but he is such a terrier... thanks for the tip too on the cold bath or pool we live in AZ so its pretty hot here.

Cris

[107barney]

It really depends on the dog. Most orthopedic surgeons (board certified specialists) are conservative and will only do surgery when the dog is lame. My Daisy had surgery on one leg at age 2 (hers was a grade 4 or the most severe). She was crate rested and medicated but still could not use the leg, so surgery was her only option. She has another grade 4 and has not had surgery. It has gone out of whack a couple of times and she is placed on strict crate rest and given pain medication when this happens. She is now almost 11 and has not needed surgery. The leg that was operated on at age 2 has stayed fine all these years because a great surgeon did the procedure. It's very important to seek out a board certified orthopedic vet before you do any surgery on the dog for this condition.

[sganow]

Maggie has grade 3 LP. We found out about 5-6 weeks ago when she "hurt" her back leg while playing with the other dogs in the back yard. We thought she sprained it, but after not putting any weight on it for 2 days we took her to the vet. He gave her an injection and some pills (Rimadyl) to take for a few days. She had to be crated and kept calm for a few days too. She hasn't had any more issues yet, but the vet said that if it becomes a chronic problem for her that she would need to have surgery. We are hoping it doesn't come to that and will avoid surgery if at all possible. We won't let it affect her quality of life though and won't let her live in pain from this. We just have to be careful with her and watch her. Maggie is only 2 1/2 years old, so we expect to have her around for a very long time. Good luck with yours. I hope you don't have to get surgery on it, but if you do I'm sure it will turn out fine.

[Mom to Hot Rod]

I would definitely recommend seeing a board certified surgeon who is versed in small dog care. We went thru lp surgery when Hot Rod was about 1 1/2. He was limping and picking his leg up. His leg was bowed outward.

While some dogs have lp and a higher grade of it, they do not necessary need surgery. It depends on how much pain the dog is in, if any. My Maggie may has low grade 2 and we were totally shocked as she jumps, runs and plays like nothing is wrong at all.

Has your vet recommended any type of supplements? Like cosequin, dasuquin or glucosamine?

[Critter]

ok so I went to the vet today and I totally dont feel comfortable with the recommendation. They said surgery which I am not opposed to but on both legs at the same time, they said the one leg needs it now and since the other legs will "eventually" need it they might as well do it now to save on cost. Mind you this is the regular vet. I asked about a referral to a specialist and they said oh the specialist comes in and does the surgery at the office, they have a "traveling" surgeon who comes in and does the surgery. I asked if there was another person and she said yes but they dont like this other person as much. When I checked out they gave me the quote for doing one leg and they said they could call me later for the quote for both legs, I asked them to call me with the other specialist name so I could get a second opinion too. They called later and they said no there wasnt another doctor. I dont understand I live in the Phoenix area. How can there not be another doctor anywhere who doesnt do this?? Mind you I know there is something wrong with his leg but he is putting weight on it, he is walking fine, he just have a skip in his step when he RUNS, not when he walks. When he has a lot of active play I can tell it really bothers him but we dont have kids at home (our kids are grown) we dont have a lot of people playing with him making him jump around. I dont mind paying for the surgery but dont want to get it too soon either and I dont want to do both legs if its not necessary!!! Any feedback???

[Mom to Hot Rod]

Originally Posted by Critter

ok so I went to the vet today and I totally dont feel comfortable with the recommendation. They said surgery which I am not opposed to but on both legs at the same time, they said the one leg needs it now and since the other legs will "eventually" need it they might as well do it now to save on cost. Mind you this is the regular vet. I asked about a referral to a specialist and they said oh the specialist comes in and does the surgery at the office, they have a "traveling" surgeon who comes in and does the surgery. I asked if there was another person and she said yes but they dont like this other person as much. When I checked out they gave me the quote for doing one leg and they said they could call me later for the quote for both legs, I asked them to call me with the other specialist name so I could get a second opinion too. They called later and they said no there wasnt another doctor. I dont understand I live in the Phoenix area. How can there not be another doctor anywhere who doesnt do this?? Mind you I know there is something wrong with his leg but he is putting weight on it, he is walking fine, he just have a skip in his step when he RUNS, not when he walks. When he has a lot of active play I can tell it really bothers him but we dont have kids at home (our kids are grown) we dont have a lot of people playing with him making him jump around. I dont mind paying for the surgery but dont want to get it too soon either and I dont want to do both legs if its not necessary!!! Any feedback???

Personally I would have a problem with a vet who seemed as though they didn't want me to get a qualified second opinion. You can Google veterinary orthopedic surgeons and go from there. Please get a second opinion and/or a consult from a board certified surgeon.

[MaddiesMommie]

Originally Posted by Mom to Hot Rod

Personally I would have a problem with a vet who seemed as though they didn't want me to get a qualified second opinion. You can Google veterinary orthopedic surgeons and go from there. Please get a second opinion and/or a consult from a board certified surgeon.

I would not continue with this vet if it were me. I hope you are able to get your little guy to see a specialist and find him some relief.

[gemy]

Originally Posted by Critter

ok so I went to the vet today and I totally dont feel comfortable with the recommendation. They said surgery which I am not opposed to but on both legs at the same time, they said the one leg needs it now and since the other legs will "eventually" need it they might as well do it now to save on cost. Mind you this is the regular vet. I asked about a referral to a specialist and they said oh the specialist comes in and does the surgery at the office, they have a "traveling" surgeon who comes in and does the surgery. I asked if there was another person and she said yes but they dont like this other person as much. When I checked out they gave me the quote for doing one leg and they said they could call me later for the quote for both legs, I asked them to call me with the other specialist name so I could get a second opinion too. They called later and they said no there wasnt another doctor. I dont understand I live in the Phoenix area. How can there not be another doctor anywhere who doesnt do this?? Mind you I know there is something wrong with his leg but he is putting weight on it, he is walking fine, he just have a skip in his step when he RUNS, not when he walks. When he has a lot of active play I can tell it really bothers him but we dont have kids at home (our kids are grown) we dont have a lot of people playing with him making him jump around. I dont mind paying for the surgery but dont want to get it too soon either and I dont want to do both legs if its not necessary!!! Any feedback???

ACVS - Veterinary Professionals Go to this site to look up board certified orthopaedic surgeons in your area.

A definite second opinion directly from a surgeon is certainly advised here.

[Mom to Hot Rod]

did your vet take any xrays? how did he/she determine that he has knee issues and what grade did he say it was? as I asked in earlier post, have you discussed supplements?

[Critter]

So I found a board certified specialist and I felt completely comfortable with her and her recommendations. She did say that his left knee was an L3 and right was L2. She did say he needed surgery and said because of the way his right knee was moving we might want to think about doing both now although it could wait but the left should have it now if that is how we wanted to treat it. He is having such problems with it and is such my little terrier dog that we have decided to do surgery on both knees. She was very thorough in going over everything and our options. While I am very nervous about this (he is just so little - 5lbs), I am completely comfortable in this decision. More so than the other vet I saw. The closer we get to the date the more nervous I get. Thanks for everyone's advice, this has been every helpful in finding a vet and asking the right questions!!!!