Hydrocephalus & congenital dermoid sinus cyst in anterior fontanel in 5 wk old yorkie

[yorkiesincommon]

I am taking care of a 5 week old yorkie that I delivered from his mommy who had an extrememly difficult delivery. Mommy and puppies belong to an elder close friend of mine who wants me to keep the mommy and she wants to sell the puppies. Normally I would be so angry I would explode but the dogs need me & so I am trying to keep myself focused on doing what needs to be done. Fix mommy in another 4 months and somehow get the 2 smallest puppies healthy. Bubba is the 3rd born & presented with a dermoid sinus in the anterior open fontanel. He has some developmental lag, increased size of protusion of the dermoid sinus, closing anterior fontanel although at birth the opening was large, excellent growth 1st 2 wks steadily decrease since 3 wks., headaches, potential motor cortex involment (trembling & stiff front legs), & he is less playful. His eyes appear slightly slanted but not "sunset". I am waiting for a response from Veterinary Neurology of S.FL, Dr. Julia Blackmore that I want to obtain a consultation and potential surgery services from. She is within travel distance of Melbourne, FL. Bubba has been under the supervision of 2 vets locally & I am dissatisfied with the lack of expertise and action from both. I am a retired MS Science Teacher & I tend to expect a lot. Does anyone know more about this condition other than definitions? Does anyone have any experience with the use of prednisolone and mirtazapine for this condition to decrease the cranial pressure? My vets tell me just to wait until he is older & do not have any suggestions now. I hope Dr. Blackmore contacts me soon. My research indicates these meds could intervine with the increasing brain dammage that may be taking place. Does Bubba have a reasonable quality of life expectation? How much pain is he in? What can I do right now? Thank you so much for any insight you may have. I usually am self suffient but am beginning to panic. Is there any program to assist with these expenses at all. I am concerned this may be a HUGE expense & somehow I will find a way but wondered if there is anything. Thank you...Mary

[Bitsy]

First let me say I am sorry you are dealing with this.

My sweet first Peyton just passed away a few days ago because of hydrocephalus. I am no expert at all, but have a little first hand experience with it.

One thing I learned is early detection and correction is really important. Once the brain damage is done, it cannot be reversed as brain cells don't regenerate. It was too late for Peyton because so much damage had been done.

Don't try to evaluate this on your own. Peyton's case was clearly progressing, yet two different vets missed it completely. He was a happy pup, who played and acted "normal" until slowly one thing or another deteriorated. First his hearing, then sight, then sense of smell, then ability to keep food down, then desire to eat and drink, then potassium regulation problems, etc. The end damage came on very fast. Who knows what might have been done to help him with early diagnosis and surgery? His case is a bit of a mystery because it was so undetected. This could be unique,mor bad vets, I don't know.

If there is a specialist you can go to, I would go right away...tonight if possible. I may be speaking from emotion, but that is what I would do.

Bless him and you for helping him. Please keep us posted.

[yorkiesincommon]

Originally Posted by Bitsy

First let me say I am sorry you are dealing with this.

My sweet first Peyton just passed away a few days ago because of hydrocephalus. I am no expert at all, but have a little first hand experience with it.

One thing I learned is early detection and correction is really important. Once the brain damage is done, it cannot be reversed as brain cells don't regenerate. It was too late for Peyton because so much damage had been done.

Don't try to evaluate this on your own. Peyton's case was clearly progressing, yet two different vets missed it completely. He was a happy pup, who played and acted "normal" until slowly one thing or another deteriorated. First his hearing, then sight, then sense of smell, then ability to keep food down, then desire to eat and drink, then potassium regulation problems, etc. The end damage came on very fast. Who knows what might have been done to help him with early diagnosis and surgery? His case is a bit of a mystery because it was so undetected. This could be unique,mor bad vets, I don't know.

If there is a specialist you can go to, I would go right away...tonight if possible. I may be speaking from emotion, but that is what I would do.

Bless him and you for helping him. Please keep us posted.

I appreciate your advice. There is no place to take him tonight; I called the Emergency Vet and they say that they can do a workup on him but I think he needs a neurologist and I think your urgence to act is just what I needed. I was acting but too sluggish... I will take him to her office in the morning instead of waiting to hear from her and maybe she will see him or at least get the ball rolling ASAP. I found her on the net and she is only about 2 hours south of me. Thank you, I needed the kick to clear my thinking. I am chatting with charlie boys mom and we have been supporting each other over our sick yorkies. I just thought maybe I needed to see if there is anyone that knew something or had experience with this situation. I am so glad you contacted me. I am so sorry you lost little Peyton. Again, thank you. With warm regards, Mary

[yorkiesincommon]

Originally Posted by Bitsy

First let me say I am sorry you are dealing with this.

My sweet first Peyton just passed away a few days ago because of hydrocephalus. I am no expert at all, but have a little first hand experience with it.

One thing I learned is early detection and correction is really important. Once the brain damage is done, it cannot be reversed as brain cells don't regenerate. It was too late for Peyton because so much damage had been done.

Don't try to evaluate this on your own. Peyton's case was clearly progressing, yet two different vets missed it completely. He was a happy pup, who played and acted "normal" until slowly one thing or another deteriorated. First his hearing, then sight, then sense of smell, then ability to keep food down, then desire to eat and drink, then potassium regulation problems, etc. The end damage came on very fast. Who knows what might have been done to help him with early diagnosis and surgery? His case is a bit of a mystery because it was so undetected. This could be unique,mor bad vets, I don't know.

If there is a specialist you can go to, I would go right away...tonight if possible. I may be speaking from emotion, but that is what I would do.

Bless him and you for helping him. Please keep us posted.

I appreciate your advice. There is no place to take him tonight; I called the Emergency Vet and they say that they can do a workup on him but I think he needs a neurologist and I think your urgence to act is just what I needed. I was acting but too sluggish... I will take him to her office in the morning instead of waiting to hear from her and maybe she will see him or at least get the ball rolling ASAP. I found her on the net and she is only about 2 hours south of me. Thank you, I needed the kick to clear my thinking. I am chatting with charlie boys mom and we have been supporting each other over our sick yorkies. I just thought maybe I needed to see if there is anyone that knew something or had experience with this situation. I am so glad you contacted me. I am so sorry you lost little Peyton. Again, thank you. With warm regards, Mary

[Bitsy]

I have been following Charlie's progress closely as well. It's too bad that it isn't happier things that bring us together, but I am still so thankful that I have a place to go to that completely understands the love we have for these pups.

I am so glad you can take him in the morning. Getting in on Friday is so much better than having to wait until Monday. The Purdue Vet hospital was good for us because they could see him in the ER, then immediately transfer him to the medical, then someone from neurology came first thing on Sunday morning to look at him. It is good to have a place where all the experts are.

Thank you for your kind words. The loss has been so painful. I will pray for your guy. Does he have a name yet?

If you feel he needs to go into the ER tonight, then don't wait. I was considering waiting...if I would have done that he would certainly have passed before the day was over, and the doctor said it would have been painful for him. He still passed, but instead of scary pain, he just went to sleep. Ugh...it is hard to type this.

Please keep us posted!

[kjc]

I am not a vet.... but I want to throw this out there

I believe the brain can recover somewhat if not completely in cases of hydrocephalis, and I suspect it could happen moreso the younger the dog, esp in a puppy, bc their cells are in a state of rapid growth, and hence, rapid repair. I also believe that the brain may be a bit cramped from the excess spinal fluid, but once that fluid leaves the brain it can recover.

I would ask the vet about the prednisone and omeprizole.. the latter decreases CSF production in dogs (I don't know about it's use in puppies), and, personally I would persue treatment at least until the hydrocephalis is under control, and at that time or a bit later reaccess the pup's abilities.

Definitely getting treatment asap is important, but it also depends on the pup, how fast the CSF is being produced, and if he has any other problems going on.

[Bitsy]

Hydrocephalus


Hydrocephalus in Dogs

Hydrocephalus In Pets

It makes me feel better to read up on things...it helped with Peyton. I actually understood what the vet was talking about.

[yorkiesincommon]

Originally Posted by Bitsy

I have been following Charlie's progress closely as well. It's too bad that it isn't happier things that bring us together, but I am still so thankful that I have a place to go to that completely understands the love we have for these pups.

I am so glad you can take him in the morning. Getting in on Friday is so much better than having to wait until Monday. The Purdue Vet hospital was good for us because they could see him in the ER, then immediately transfer him to the medical, then someone from neurology came first thing on Sunday morning to look at him. It is good to have a place where all the experts are.

Thank you for your kind words. The loss has been so painful. I will pray for your guy. Does he have a name yet?

If you feel he needs to go into the ER tonight, then don't wait. I was considering waiting...if I would have done that he would certainly have passed before the day was over, and the doctor said it would have been painful for him. He still passed, but instead of scary pain, he just went to sleep. Ugh...it is hard to type this.

Please keep us posted!

Thank you for the encouragement. The ER here is different, there is a rotation of normal vets and they only bring in specialist on certain days. One week Eye, one week ?. Never all here in 1 week or anything you can rely on. His name is Bubba, because of the bubble on his little head. I have already lost a yorkie at the ER because of gross incompetence so I only consider them in emergency. This has been on going since his birth and I have taken him to 2 vets ever since I saw declining changes. A total of 5 visits in 3 weeks and several phone calls all stating I have to wait until he is older. Tomorrow, I will feel much better knowing this vet is qualified. Thank you for your prayers. Mary

[yorkiesincommon]

Originally Posted by kjc

I am not a vet.... but I want to throw this out there

I believe the brain can recover somewhat if not completely in cases of hydrocephalis, and I suspect it could happen moreso the younger the dog, esp in a puppy, bc their cells are in a state of rapid growth, and hence, rapid repair. I also believe that the brain may be a bit cramped from the excess spinal fluid, but once that fluid leaves the brain it can recover.

I would ask the vet about the prednisone and omeprizole.. the latter decreases CSF production in dogs (I don't know about it's use in puppies), and, personally I would persue treatment at least until the hydrocephalis is under control, and at that time or a bit later reaccess the pup's abilities.

Definitely getting treatment asap is important, but it also depends on the pup, how fast the CSF is being produced, and if he has any other problems going on.

Thanks, so you know something about these medicines? I know that if I can get the neurologist to look at him he will have a better chance and my best bet is to show up and get action face to face. I hope you are right that this can be over come. I will keep you guys posted. Mary

[Bitsy]

I love that you are going to show up and demand attention. Awesome! I will continue to pray for him. Please keep us posted and give him a smooch from me.

[yorkiesincommon]

I called the neurologist again this morning and got the answering service and found out she is a mobile neurologist DVM and they are going to have her call me back. I am just hoping she comes this far. I have a friend in Palm Bay which would take 30 minutes off the trip for her so I will offer that if needed. A neurologist is a neurologist at this point and if I could just get the med to reduce the production of csf I would be happy. We can do everything else as she sees fit. Thanks for everything. I will hound this office or find another today.

[Bitsy]

Sounds like you have a good plan. I hope it goes well!!

[Charlie_Boy]

Any news??

[yorkiesincommon]

Originally Posted by yorkiesincommon

I called the neurologist again this morning and got the answering service and found out she is a mobile neurologist DVM and they are going to have her call me back. I am just hoping she comes this far. I have a friend in Palm Bay which would take 30 minutes off the trip for her so I will offer that if needed. A neurologist is a neurologist at this point and if I could just get the med to reduce the production of csf I would be happy. We can do everything else as she sees fit. Thanks for everything. I will hound this office or find another today.

Dr. Blackmore, neurologist, states that Bubba is showing signs of neuro dammage but says if I can keep him gaining and comfortable until he is at least 2 lb. and/or about 12 to 16 weeks old that we can assess him for medication and surgery then. He is too small for anything now. He must be anesthesized for an MRI which would be part of the assessment. She says when they are this tiny and this young they do not handle any of the treatments well at all. If he begins to seize then they will put him on drugs for that but she says the prognosis is grim if that occurs at this age.
Right now all I can do is sub q for hydration, do what ever I have to to get enough nourishment into him and make him comfortable. If at any time he steadily refuses to eat or isolates himself more then I would need to look at putting him down because they can really suffer. If I can keep him stable then in a when he is more mature and weight is over 2 pounds we can assess and go from there. She says the outlook is very poor as involved as this is. She seems to be an excellent neurologist even though I don't like the answers, she was through.
Tonight he ate a little solid puppy food along with his brothers and he played a little while with him. I have to supervise the play but so far all has been fine. I hold him several times a day and talk & play with him. He must have time.... Thanks for all of your information and support.

[Bitsy]

Sounds to me like she really is a good neurologist. She definitely knows what she is talking about and giving good advice. I hope it makes you feel better at least knowing what you are dealing with, and having a plan for what is to come. This is such an awful condition...sometimes there is little that we can do.

You are doing all you can do for him. The rest we have to trust to God. We may not always like the outcome, but He is with us through it all.

By the time my Peyton was old enough and weighed enough, the damage was just too severe. He would have really suffered if I let him continue, and I would never want that.

Reading what your neurologist said makes me feel better. I kept wondering if something could have been done if they would have caught it earlier. It sounds like any earlier wouldn't have worked either.

My heart goes out to you. I will pray for Bubba and for you. I'm here if you need me.