Penny's liver value is up!

[MaltYorkiGal]

First of all I want to say a big thank you to Jodi who bumped up my thread today, as I posted yesterday...

Also a big thank you to all who have responded so far and have offered some great advice along the way! I don't know what I would do without this online community.


[QUOTE=107barney;3310593]What medication is your dog on for the two weeks?
QUOTE]

Amoxicillian 50mg tablet, twice daily

and

Denosyl 50mg tablet, once daily

When I gave her her first tablet, I had to crush it and put it in a little Cesar dog food (the wet stuff in those little containers)...then she took it with no problem

Is putting it in a little bit Cesar OK? Or should I try something else?

[MaltYorkiGal]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

This is a great article that explains what type of protein is good for dogs with liver disease and which ones to avoid. Red meat, for instance, produces high amounts of ammonia and should be avoided. Cod and cottage cheese actually have enzymes that heal the liver.

Liver | B-Naturals.Com Newsletter

Lady has liver damage from years of seizure medications and is on a home cooked diet. All the protein comes from white fish like cod or pollack, and dairy products like cottage cheese, yogurt and eggs.

Again, I would not add supplements or make any change in diet until after she has her BAT or it could skew the results.

The mercury in fish doesn't bother dogs? I know high mercury levels in fish can be harmful to humans.

[MaltYorkiGal]

Originally Posted by 107barney

What medication is your dog on for the two weeks?

I would not change the diet until after the BAT testing is done.
Many dogs who have liver disease do very well on diet changes and many eat Hill's prescription diet L/D.

My dog Daisy who is 10 has liver disease. She can have anesthesia, but only certain kinds of drugs can be used. She has been induced with the drug propofol and maintained on isoflurane during procedures because these drugs are easier on the liver. You might want to talk to your vet about the specific type of anesthesia he/she will use during the spay and ask him/her to use one that is not metabolized by the liver (valium and its derivatives are drugs to avoid if the dog has liver disease). Only your vet can tell you what the right drugs are for your dog but this is definitely something to discuss. I would also discuss post-surgery pain medications as some drugs like Metacam and Rimadyl (anti-inflammatory medications) should not be used in dog's who have liver disease. Our Daisy can take tramadol for pain when needed.

As Ladymom said, the Yorkshire Terrier is much more likely than other breeds to have liver shunt or microscopic shunting of the liver. This is just something we need to be informed about. Your dog may or may not have a liver problem.

I would also like to note that liver enzymes can be elevated for MANY reasons besides liver shunt or microscopic shunting. For example, my dog Barney had pancreatitis last March. His liver enzymes were elevated and many other portions of his blood work were abnormal during this time -- most of the values returned to normal as he got well.

Let us know what your vet thinks when you do more testing. Many of us do different diets for our babies with liver disease. Many do well on the Hill's and some just eat regular dog food. Mine eats a home cooked diet made specially for her by a board certified vet nutritionist and has done very well.

By the way, a cheerio here and there is ok but I'd avoid the cheese because it is processed and loaded with sodium. You can try some fresh veggies as low calorie snacks - - mine love steaed green beans and baby carrot pieces. We also give blueberries sometimes.

Thank you for including these drug names! I will make a note of them and ask the Vet about them.

I know the breeders have said they give their yorkies raw baby carrots. Im afraid of Penny choking on those!...even though she has a mouthful of teeth now...it scares me a little.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by MaltYorkiGal

The mercury in fish doesn't bother dogs? I know high mercury levels in fish can be harmful to humans.

Cod and pollack are very low in mercury. Lady also gets tilapia which is also very low.

Tuna and swordfish are the highest in mercury content.

Mercury Levels in Fish : American Pregnancy Association

[107barney]

Originally Posted by MaltYorkiGal

The mercury in fish doesn't bother dogs? I know high mercury levels in fish can be harmful to humans.

White fish like cod is a low mercury fish. Salmon is also a low mercury fish. Talapia is also good and low mercury.

The big bad fish are swordfish, tuna, etc. You can learn all about mercury at Sea Turtle Restoration Project*:*Got Mercury?.

[107barney]

[quote=MaltYorkiGal;3310954]First of all I want to say a big thank you to Jodi who bumped up my thread today, as I posted yesterday...

Also a big thank you to all who have responded so far and have offered some great advice along the way! I don't know what I would do without this online community.

Originally Posted by 107barney

What medication is your dog on for the two weeks?
QUOTE]

Amoxicillian 50mg tablet, twice daily

and

Denosyl 50mg tablet, once daily

When I gave her her first tablet, I had to crush it and put it in a little Cesar dog food (the wet stuff in those little containers)...then she took it with no problem

Is putting it in a little bit Cesar OK? Or should I try something else?

Amoxicillin is an antibiotic. Your vet must be suspecting some infection, although we've done antibiotics for Daisy when liver enzymes are up because sometimes an infection can be the cause. Denosyl is a supportive therapy shown to help the liver. Marin is another therapy many of us use for our liver impaired dogs.

I'd lay off the foods you find in the supermarket like Little Cesar. They may be tasty to dogs but it's the equivalent of eating McDonald's for us - a once and a while treat that makes us feel crappy after! (Or at least it does me). Some may disagree with me here but I would not use those foods. I give medicine inside pieces of chicken or if it is Daisy inside a piece of cooked sweet potato.

There are lots of good foods on the market. I home cook exclusively so I am not one to ask for suggestions.

RE: the drug names - just make sure you talk to your vet about not using valium or its derivatives if the liver has not returned to normal. Personally, all my dogs undergo anesthesia using propofol and isoflurane because they don't stay in the liver as long as the valium so are easier on the liver. Many vets use this already as a protocol but it is good to ask about. Same on the anti-inflammatory drugs. Only your vet is qualified to determine what is right for your dog but these are things you can and should know about and ask him/her about! Many of us here put our vets through the ringer with questions

As for the baby carrots - mine were eating them from babyhood! Just cut them up small into little pieces and use as treats. If you're still nervous about it, go for the steamed green beans. Mine eat all kinds of veggies and fruits. Barney and Daisy have gotten into really bad fights over a spinach leaf!

[MaltYorkiGal]

For those of you who have gotten a bile acid test performed on your yorkie, did you opt for the blood version or the urine version?

From research, I found for the blood version there is a 12 hour fast involved? That sounds like it would be hard on the dog

The urine one sounds like a better choice to me

Should I ask the vet about a bile acid test even if Penny's blood test comes back and her liver count is normal?

Thanks in advance for any response

[Ringo1]

Yes, I would ask about a bile acid test even if her liver enzymes come back fine. Lucy's liver enzymes were fine; but the BAT was able to show she had a mild liver issue and we were then able to make diet changes accordingly.

I've never heard of a bile acid urine test (not to say that it doesn't exist) but I've only ever heard of the blood test.

Yes, there is a 12 hour FAST involved. I just be sure to get mine scheduled for first thing in the am. Nothing to eat after 8 pm or before 8 am isn't too terribly hard. Or didn't seem to be on Lucy. She was barely up and out of bed before it was time to go.

[MaltYorkiGal]

I posted earlier in this thread that I crush Penny's antibiotic and the therapy pill when it is time to take and put the crushed pill in just enough Cesar moist dog food or Pedigree moist food(it comes in a pouch) to administer it.

I understand that Cesar or Pedigree(?) may not be the most healthy option. What else can I hide the crushed pill in? plain yogurt? mashed carrot, yam?

If cheese, a dairy is a no-no because of high-sodium, would cottage cheese be okay?

I know some yogurts have high froctose corn syrup and that grosses me out enough I stay away from it. I don't think it belongs in yogurt...juices, ok...but yogurt?! I buy organic yogurt for myself, which doesn't have HFCS. The kind I buy, Stonyfield, has prebiotics in it, I believe. Are prebiotics OK for a dog?

[MaltYorkiGal]

Originally Posted by Ringo1

Yes, I would ask about a bile acid test even if her liver enzymes come back fine. Lucy's liver enzymes were fine; but the BAT was able to show she had a mild liver issue and we were then able to make diet changes accordingly.

I've never heard of a bile acid urine test (not to say that it doesn't exist) but I've only ever heard of the blood test.

Yes, there is a 12 hour FAST involved. I just be sure to get mine scheduled for first thing in the am. Nothing to eat after 8 pm or before 8 am isn't too terribly hard. Or didn't seem to be on Lucy. She was barely up and out of bed before it was time to go.

I think it's a relatively new way of performing a blie acid test.

You are right, it doesn't sound too bad of a fast, especially if scheduled in the morning.

[Ringo1]

Originally Posted by MaltYorkiGal

I posted earlier in this thread that I crush Penny's antibiotic and the therapy pill when it is time to take and put the crushed pill in just enough Cesar moist dog food or Pedigree moist food(it comes in a pouch) to administer it.

I understand that Cesar or Pedigree(?) may not be the most healthy option. What else can I hide the crushed pill in? plain yogurt? mashed carrot, yam?

If cheese, a dairy is a no-no because of high-sodium, would cottage cheese be okay?

I know some yogurts have high froctose corn syrup and that grosses me out enough I stay away from it. I don't think it belongs in yogurt...juices, ok...but yogurt?! I buy organic yogurt for myself, which doesn't have HFCS. The kind I buy, Stonyfield, has prebiotics in it, I believe. Are prebiotics OK for a dog?

I would say plain yogurt or mashed carrot or yam would be fine if your dog likes those. Plain yogurt is all I have ever given; no flavored yogurt so no sweetners like HFCS. Stonyfield yogurt is fine as long as it is the plain and not flavored.

Yes, probiotics are good for a dog; just like they are for you.

I have given Lucy cottage cheese and she does fine with it; some dogs (like Ringo) don't do so well with dairy.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by MaltYorkiGal

For those of you who have gotten a bile acid test performed on your yorkie, did you opt for the blood version or the urine version?

From research, I found for the blood version there is a 12 hour fast involved? That sounds like it would be hard on the dog

The urine one sounds like a better choice to me

Should I ask the vet about a bile acid test even if Penny's blood test comes back and her liver count is normal?

Thanks in advance for any response

Dr. Center's bile acid test protocol is on the YTCA website, Health section. According to Dr. Center, a 12 hour fast is not required. Two blood draws are required.

This test is the most accurate so don't waste your time and money on urine tests.

And yes, Yorkies can have normal liver values and still have elevated bile acids. All Yorkies should routinely have a BAT done once they reach 16 weeks anyway.

Health Committee

[107barney]

I agree that you should go for a blood test for bile acids - and it should be sent out to a lab and not done in house.

It is true that the protocol no longer requires a FASTED sample but we still fast our dog because we have to do her tests twice a year and want all conditions to be the same. We also usually draw her regular chemistry values at the same time and that does require a fast.

[Vinniedoggy]

Both my yorkies have had elevated liver enzymes, and our friend's yorkie also recently had elevated enzymes. I am beginning to wonder about how the range for acceptable liver enzymes is calculated. Perhaps Yorkies (or other small dogs) tend to normally have higher liver enzymes? I only say this because I have some knowledge of how the "standards" are set; and the standard reference ranges for anything (liver enzymes, blood glucose, etc) can change over time for a variety of reasons.

The bottom line is that both my dogs have elevated enzymes, have undergone treatment with Marin, and seem completely normal and healthy. Don't know what to say, other than don't worry too much. Given what I've seen, it almost never turns out to be a problem.

[Ellie May]

[quote=MaltYorkiGal;3310954]First of all I want to say a big thank you to Jodi who bumped up my thread today, as I posted yesterday...

Also a big thank you to all who have responded so far and have offered some great advice along the way! I don't know what I would do without this online community.

Originally Posted by 107barney

What medication is your dog on for the two weeks?
QUOTE]

Amoxicillian 50mg tablet, twice daily

and

Denosyl 50mg tablet, once daily

When I gave her her first tablet, I had to crush it and put it in a little Cesar dog food (the wet stuff in those little containers)...then she took it with no problem

Is putting it in a little bit Cesar OK? Or should I try something else?

Denosyl is ineffective if crushed and it does not work as well if given with a lot of food. One small bite would be ok although I'd avoid Ceasar's if possible. Denosyl also has a chewable type.