Newborn birth defect?

[linanator]

Litter born Mon. 9/13/10. 1st boy came out totally in sack, I had to tear it open and struggle to get him to start breathing and when he did, it was more like gasps. He wouldn't stay on the mom's teat for more than a few seconds. Lost whole oz. of weight by Tues. evening. Flew to ER vet (had just come down w/walking pneumonia myself so I was pretty sick) to get Esbilac and bottle. He wouldn't suckle. He made it though the night and I took to my vet who showed me how to tube feed which I've been doing every 2 hrs./24 hrs. day. I've observed I don't think he can breath through his nose! Has anyone ever experienced this and what was the outcome. Weight at birth 4.5, next evening 3.4, today (Fri. 9/17) 3.6 oz.
He's really skinny, boney---you can see his pelvic bones, ribs, etc. Keep trying to put him on a teat, but he falls off in a few seconds. Tried the bottle again today and it didn't work. Opens his mouth to get a breath which would break any suction; hence, why he can't stay on the teat or bottle nipple. Suggestions??? Lin P.S. litter born on 59th day.

[yorkielady06]

Did you suction out his nose with a bulb syringe? Did the vet?
Also, I am not a fan of Esibilac too many side effects from it in my opinion however that is up to you. I use goats milk (condensed kind from walmart next to the regular condensed milk) mixed with one can of boiled water, 2 tbsp of kayro syrup. Mix well and tube feed that once it is cooled. I also feed that to the nursing mom (about a quarter of a cup) for the first few days after a whelp up to 2 weeks after depending on her eating habits.
As for the baby, is he making any attempts to suckle? Are there any other littermates? How big? Does he have a cleft palate? Did the vet check for one?

[linanator]

No cleft pallet. Vet checked. The other 4 littermates are thriving. I'll try the goats milk with Karo.
What do you think about the 'can't breath through his nose' theory? Explains no suction on teats or bottles. Can't see anything else. Lin

[linanator]

oh, yes, I did suction......nose and mouth. Can't say I got much out. Did "sling" him a few times. He was doing the gasping thing (not hard) from the get-go. He'd open his mouth and take a breath, about 2 seconds later do the same thing and I notice when I force him to be on a teat, he still opens the sides of his mouth breaking the suction and falls off the teat. Same w/the bottle, hence, the tube feeding. But I will try the goat's milk and Karo. Any other thoughts? Lin

[yorkielady06]

I have had a pup do the exact same thing. At 3 days vet said no cleft, at 2 weeks no cleft, then at 6 weeks a cleft was noted. I knew there was something because the pup just would not latch on. I tube fed also and the pup grew slower than the rest of the littermates but grew regardless. At 6 weeks I knew for sure it was a cleft because when I attempted to add the rice cereal to the goats milk and let her eat the mush it came out her nose. She ended up with pneumonia and we went back to the vets and then a "huge" cleft was noticed. There was no other option at that point than to put her down.
I will tell you I had her many times when she did the mouth breathing in an ICU set up that I have made with oxygen going also. But looking back I think I did her more harm than good, but you just never know.

Have you tried a tiny bit of saline up the pups nose to maybe loosen whatever may be up there and then suctioning it out? Other than that I think continuing to tube feed is your best option.
I do not know if I mentioned with the goats milk it is 1cc per ounce of puppy weight in each feeding. So a 5 ounce pup would get around 5 ccs per feeding. That is a general rule but not studied. It is just what I have used on my many times feeding and it seems to work.
How is the pup doing at this point?

[Rhetts_mama]

If you are concerned about the latency of the nares, you can ask the vet to check it by having him pass a small tube down each side.

[linanator]

Today he has put on another 10th of an oz. He's up to 3.7. (Weighed 4.5 at birth) He's been putting on 1/10 about every 24 hours. I'll check with my vet about the nose openings and see if he can do that. That's a great idea. I thought about it, but had not idea. Nothing is coming out of his nose when he's fed, so I really don't think it's cleft. I need to get the goat's milk today.

[Rhetts_mama]

Glad to hear he's gaining weight.

Just re-read my last post- the word was supposed to be patency, not latency. That's what happens when you try to type things on an Ipod.

[orlnurse]

I don't know much about newborn puppies but I do know about premature infants. I know that when moms want to breastfeed but they have a preemie, we generally give it in a bottle or tube feed because it requires so much energy for them to even suckle, that if they work too hard they are burning more calories that they are taking in. Hence, weight loss. Could it be the same in a puppy that is struggling to suckle? I agree that the vet should check the patency of the nares, that could be why he is struggling to suckle too. Again, I'm pulling on my experience as a neo nurse since I've seen this in infants as well.

[linanator]

I didn't know that---never even been pregnant. I have a now 27 yr. old adopted daughter from Bolivia. But that makes sense. A few min. ago, I took all the other 'fatties' out of the litter box (and placed on heating pad) and put 'junior' on the mom. He kept falling over on his side after a couple of seconds and would lose the teat. He just wouldn't stay on. So I tube fed him again.
Could I not add some Karo to the Esbilac. I have so much of that, then change him to goat's milk when I run out in about 3 days? He's been on the Esbilac since Tues. and the vet didin't suggest anything else. I do love the goat's milk idea and do want to change to it. But could I add Karo to the Esbilac. He needs some energy. Lin

[linanator]

Well, hubby is going to Walmart and get some goat's milk. My question is: Is it ok to change him from Esbilac to goat's milk? Should I do it in combination at first-----like changing dog food? Course I'm sure he's getting a tiny bit of mother's milk, just not enough to sustain, and that's different than the Esbilac. What do you think?

[linanator]

Yorkielady06:
Okay, the Goat's milk is Not 'concentrated'. So how much Karo???....keep in mind I'm going to mix less than half and half to start with the Esbilac. Lin

[Woogie Man]

Here's something you may want to read about Esbilac.

LA Animal Watch: Petag's Esbilac puppy milk contains heavy metal copper

Even without the above warnings in the link, Esbilac is not as easily digestible as goat's milk. I don't think you need to wean him off the Esbilac. You could just go ahead and use the goat's milk.

I've always gotten the goat's milk in the can and it is concentrated. If yours' is canned, read the label. It should say to use with equal parts water. Also, if it's canned, shake it very well before opening as the milk solids settle in the can.

When I've used it, I always dump the can with equal parts water in a pitcher and pour a little into a small sauce dish and just add a dollop of karo (about 1/2 tsp) to that. I warm it like a baby bottle and feed the baby. It should be enough for several feedings and you can re-use it but I wouldn't reheat it too many times. You can always give the leftover to Mom if you want. She'll love it.

[linanator]

After reading it (!) it must be concentrated because the very last thing on the Directions is.......for whole milk dilute w/equal parts water. I'll try to figure out an amount of Karo for the amount of diluted goat's milk. Surely I can do that. Thanks so much for the advise and warning about Esbilac. Lin

[linanator]

How does 1/4 tsp. Karo to 1/4 Cup of 'diluted' Goat's milk sound. (It should say concentrated on the front of the can, but then I guess when you read the directions you see that. lol) Does that sould like too much Karo to anyone? I don't want to raise his sugar too high. Lin