I need help please asap

[ally173]

hope she's better; that sounds like dehydration or overheating. maybe she's not getting hydrated enough. good luck

[pookiebear]

New update on Bella, and I'm dizzy and lightheaded over all this. . .

I got Bella to the vet at about 6:00 a.m. yesterday morning. She was doing pretty good through the night, but she got really bad about 5 a.m. I almost lost her about that time. I had to give her mouth to mouth to help her breathe until the doctor got there, she couldn't hold her head up, she was almost gone. When we got her to the vet he examined her and put her on the ground and she started the head pressing and walking in circles. That is something she has never done before. The vet is thinking that she has ingested a toxic mushroom.

Yesterday afternoon my husband and I went to see her and she had started to perk up upon hearing us, but I'm not sure if she can see or see clearly, but she wanted to come to me. We took her outside to use the bathroom, and she did both, and we took her back in, because she little walk tired her.

Dr. Rich ran some more blood work today, and It's not good. Her bile acid should not be over 10 and it is 60. Her alt is 6,000 and should be over 118.

I'm picking her up this afternoon around 5 to take her home for the night, then take her back in tomorrow for more fluids. I can pick her up again late in the day and have her home for the weekend, but take her back in again on Tuesday for more blood work. She will go home with an antibiotic and a laxative which helps get the amonia out of her body, and a canned food diet that helps support the liver. He will do the blood work again next to see where we are. The vet now is considering the possibility of a liver shunt.

It seems like to me that if she had a liver shunt, she would have started having problems before now. She's never been a sickly dog, always really active. I'm not thinking shunt at all. I guess we'll know more about that next week when the blood is run again. If her numbers come down, then it is a direct result of the mushroom she ingested.

I'll get back on when I get home with her this afternoon, and post an new update. Bless her little heart....I love that baby more than..... well you all know.

Thank you all for your concern. If anyone can clear me up on this, I would really appreciate it. I just don't understand how Bella could live 2 years, and us not ever having the first symptom or sign of a liver shunt. Certainly that head pressing and walking in circles would have started a long time ago. I'm about a space cadet right now.

Hugs, Denise

[107barney]

Bile Acids can be elevated for many reasons, and a poisonous mushroom is one of them.

A BAT of 60 is not that high and is probably up due to the possible toxic ingestion. The ALT is very high - but that is also likely due to the poisonous ingestion.

Ask your vet if she can be put on milk thistle - silymarin - to help the liver function during this event. Milk thistle is used when there is a known hepatotoxin -- such as a poisonous mushroom. Your vet could consult with the ASPCA toxicologist by phone on this as well, or you could call and they will advise (cost is $65).

If the vet gave you canned Hill's L/D that is a moderate protein diet used for dogs with liver shunt or MVD. It helps the liver to not work so hard. I'm not sure that she will need it if her blood work returns to normal.

My own personal piece of mind would involve more than my general vet - either I'd call ASPCA toxicology or I'd be at a specialty hospital.

[107barney]

PS A liver shunt can pop up at any time...However, given the lack of symptoms for two years and then a sudden onset of events, I would think it was an ingestion of something like the mushroom. Usually a shunt you see bile acids (post number) of over 100. Even then, you never know...could be an MVD situation as with my dog who had a 107.

There should be 2 readings for BATs - a pre and a post feeding. What was the other number?

Originally Posted by pookiebear

New update on Bella, and I'm dizzy and lightheaded over all this. . .

I got Bella to the vet at about 6:00 a.m. yesterday morning. She was doing pretty good through the night, but she got really bad about 5 a.m. I almost lost her about that time. I had to give her mouth to mouth to help her breathe until the doctor got there, she couldn't hold her head up, she was almost gone. When we got her to the vet he examined her and put her on the ground and she started the head pressing and walking in circles. That is something she has never done before. The vet is thinking that she has ingested a toxic mushroom.

Yesterday afternoon my husband and I went to see her and she had started to perk up upon hearing us, but I'm not sure if she can see or see clearly, but she wanted to come to me. We took her outside to use the bathroom, and she did both, and we took her back in, because she little walk tired her.

Dr. Rich ran some more blood work today, and It's not good. Her bile acid should not be over 10 and it is 60. Her alt is 6,000 and should be over 118.

I'm picking her up this afternoon around 5 to take her home for the night, then take her back in tomorrow for more fluids. I can pick her up again late in the day and have her home for the weekend, but take her back in again on Tuesday for more blood work. She will go home with an antibiotic and a laxative which helps get the amonia out of her body, and a canned food diet that helps support the liver. He will do the blood work again next to see where we are. The vet now is considering the possibility of a liver shunt.

It seems like to me that if she had a liver shunt, she would have started having problems before now. She's never been a sickly dog, always really active. I'm not thinking shunt at all. I guess we'll know more about that next week when the blood is run again. If her numbers come down, then it is a direct result of the mushroom she ingested.

I'll get back on when I get home with her this afternoon, and post an new update. Bless her little heart....I love that baby more than..... well you all know.

Thank you all for your concern. If anyone can clear me up on this, I would really appreciate it. I just don't understand how Bella could live 2 years, and us not ever having the first symptom or sign of a liver shunt. Certainly that head pressing and walking in circles would have started a long time ago. I'm about a space cadet right now.

Hugs, Denise

[kjc]

Yes I agree, get her on Denamarin or similar product containing Milk Thistle... it will help protect the liver from further damage and help it to heal... Keeping her in my prayers...

[107barney]

Actually I just had a discussion with Daisy's specialists regarding Denamarin vs. separate products Marin and Denosyl and was advised that the separate products are better than the combo, so that is what we are currently using. It makes sense since Denosyl is given after a fast on an empty stomach and Marin on a full stomach for optimal absorption.

They may not have any of these products on hand - you may need to get them from a larger area hospital or use a comparable product.

[BlueBelle]

That is so awful. Wish the vet had got to her sooner and maybe they could have made her throw it up. They also give charcoal sometimes, but don't know about with mushroom ingestion. Just scarey as all get out!!
Hope all turns out well.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by 107barney

PS A liver shunt can pop up at any time...However, given the lack of symptoms for two years and then a sudden onset of events, I would think it was an ingestion of something like the mushroom. Usually a shunt you see bile acids (post number) of over 100. Even then, you never know...could be an MVD situation as with my dog who had a 107.

There should be 2 readings for BATs - a pre and a post feeding. What was the other number?

I agree with this. It is possible for a dog to be 2-3 yrs old, and suddenly start showing signs of their liver shunt. In fact, I was just having this exact discussion w/ a Vet Internist the other day - and that's what she said.

So, to me, this could be 1) toxic mushroom 2) LS or 3) both - as in, the ingestion of a toxic substance is causing elevated liver values, and the toxicity is also bringing out symptoms of a previously unknown shunt. So, even if the numbers come down on Tues, I'd still be wondering about a shunt possibility and would want to know definitively (esp if she ingested toxins!...even more crucial to know, in that case).

I sure hope she is okay. Btw, is this the same vet who told you "just to wait" the night before bringing her in? I don't mean to stir things up, but if this is the same vet - please be careful. I still can't get my head around why, for any reason, that vet told you to wait it out when it seemed so clear that toxicity was a very real possibility. Death from poison substances can occur days and even weeks later, if the liver can't regenerate/heal, and this is why time is of the essence when it comes to toxins.

I don't mean to scare you, Denise, but I just wanted to mention all that for your kiddo. Stay strong and know that you're in our thoughts. We have all our fingers and paws crossed for you and little Bella!

[Lizzie07]

So glad you got your baby to the vet in time and she is doing better. Will keep you in our thoughts.

[kjc]

Toxins are processed either by the kidneys or the liver. Mushrooms affect the liver, so any lab results will be off and I think it will be impossible to try to determine if she has an underlying liver condition or shunt until the toxicity issue has resolved. I also pray that this pup is getting Milk Thistle to help her liver regenerate and prevent liver cell damage. I've been researching LS for over a year and haven't come across anything that can do a better job.

Keeping Bella in my prayers...

[jrsygal37]

I'm very sorry to hear about your baby. This happened to us when my Bella was just about 2 years old. She had been outside, then just went limp and we too thought we were going to lose her. We rushed her to the emergency vet and like your girl her biles were high. The vet said to us it was poison or liver shunt. I questioned the liver shunt at this age because like your also our little one had never been sick other then we we rescued her at 5 weeks. Anyway, we were told that in a lot of cases between one and two is when liver shunt a lot of times shows. In our case Bella had been bitten by a brown recluse spider, and it caused a poison through her hence the high biles. Please take her some where experienced. The only thing I'll say is if it was poison by now a lot should be out of her syster (I would think) and she should be showing signs of improvement. Now, my Bella is a bigger Yorkie (She is 13 lbs full grown) so I think that helped her a lot. I'll keep you all in my prayers. Elaine

[kjc]

BAT results under 100 usually indicate Multivascular Dysplasia (MVD). Bat results over 100 usually indicate a shunt.

Bella's results are 60 (I'm assuming post- after a meal) so that means most likely she may have MVD and not LS, which is managed with low-protein diet and medications if needed. Drugs and toxins do affect the BAT results, so if she ate a toxin, her results do not definitively mean that she has MVD/LS.

In most instances a dog with a post BAT of 60 would not be showing the symptoms of head pressing, circling, etc. Also, symptoms tend to come on gradually, not all at once. The symptoms are the same for any type of liver disease, and usually occur right after a meal.

The ALT is not normally that high even in dogs with LS, and more often than not the AST will be elevated, also. ALT results are directly proportional to the number of injured hepatocytes (liver cells). ALT is only 50-60% sensitive to portosystemic shunting.

[chestermama]

vet asap she got into something poison or something toxic to make her go unresponsive

[Lizzie07]

Originally Posted by pookiebear

New update on Bella, and I'm dizzy and lightheaded over all this. . .

I got Bella to the vet at about 6:00 a.m. yesterday morning. She was doing pretty good through the night, but she got really bad about 5 a.m. I almost lost her about that time. I had to give her mouth to mouth to help her breathe until the doctor got there, she couldn't hold her head up, she was almost gone. When we got her to the vet he examined her and put her on the ground and she started the head pressing and walking in circles. That is something she has never done before. The vet is thinking that she has ingested a toxic mushroom.

Denise, you might also want to ask Dr. Rich were the closest emergency vet clinic is located and get the phone number and directions to it. This is something everyone should do, for the sake of their pets.

[kjc]

Also consider getting a second opinion... I think this pup would benefit by staying in the hospital under 24 hour care for toxin clearing and liver support for a few days... or over the weekend at least.