Possible Liver Shunt - Need Advice - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

kjc · 08-30-2010, 10:11 AM

Enchephalitis symptoms would occur mostly all the time, except while sleeping.

What color are his gums? Does he scratch alot on his head, neck or shoulders?

jacs0517 · 08-30-2010, 10:35 AM

He is out of balance all the time, he does like to rest a lot. I think his gums are okay. Breeder is giving us prednizone to see if in a few days he is getting better - do you think that could be harmful?

kjc · 08-30-2010, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacs0517

He is out of balance all the time, he does like to rest a lot. I think his gums are okay. Breeder is giving us prednizone to see if in a few days he is getting better - do you think that could be harmful?

I truly think you should take him back to your vet or a different vet (neurologist) with bloodwork in hand. There are a few neuro diseases that come to mind and the treatment is different for each, especially the amount of pred to give. Also, prednizone can affect any further lab test results that may need to be done.

Has the breeder had neuro issues come up in any other pups? Is this where Oscar came from?

jacs0517 · 08-30-2010, 11:10 AM

Thank you, I think my husband is going to pick him up and take him to the emergency clinic.

My vet is still standing by the fact that he has a shunt - aren't the levels too low?

kjc · 08-30-2010, 11:28 AM

I think a shunt may be possible but not likely...I can't rule it out bc I am not a vet.... but with the numbers I've seen ( I have a LS dog) those numbers are way low. Plus legs giving out is not a major symptom of LS, even though it can be different for each dog. Also with numbers that low, very rarely are there any symptoms evident. Usually suspected on pre-op elevated liver enzymes (ALT, AST, GGT, ALP).

Be sure to take the bloodwork with you to the ER. Maybe the Xray too. Keeping you and Carson in my prayers...

And my deepest sympathies on your loss of little Oscar....

Very cute pups in your avatar!

jacs0517 · 08-30-2010, 11:50 AM

Thanks for all you advice, I will keep you posted once we hear back from the emergency vet.

kjc · 08-30-2010, 11:55 AM

You're Welcome... Best of Luck and prayers for a quick diagnosis and even speedier recovery.....

bnbiggs · 08-31-2010, 05:44 AM

After reading your post it kind of sounds like what I just went through with my little Dior. Dior is 6mths and she was basically just falling over and tripping over her feet. At first we thought it was cute that she was so clumsy, but then it started to bother me that she wasn't jumping or doing most things puppies do. She slept A LOT and just wasnt a carzy normal puppy. I took her to the vet and we did a bile acid test, her levels were elevated, but not over 100 like they should be if it was a true shunt. They then did an x-ray of her neck and we found out that it was AAI (Atlantoaxial instability). Basically spinal cord was being pinched and her feet weren't receiving brain signals correctly so she basically didn't know where they were. I would ask the vet about that because it's not very common but VERY serious until corrected. I don't want to scare you, but its a good thing to rule out if they are expressing neurological symptoms (basically walking drunk or stumbling).

kjc · 08-31-2010, 12:14 PM

Just checking in for an update.... hoping everything went well at the vets....

luvfla · 08-31-2010, 12:58 PM

Sophie's number was much higher than that and her internest 95% ruled out shunt because she has NO symptoms.

kjc · 08-31-2010, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvfla

Sophie's number was much higher than that and her internest 95% ruled out shunt because she has NO symptoms.

Tinkerbell had no symptoms, just elevated Liver enzymes and trouble clearing the anesthesia from her spay. Her first BAT was 44/126.7. She was put on L/D and meds, and, hoping the numbers would decrease, I just had her retested: pre= 267.5, post= 297.9.

lillymae · 08-31-2010, 10:58 PM

These symptoms can be AAI , Chiari , GME or LS. Kjc had mentioned MRI & Spinal Tap and if this were my pup that would be my next step. Also with Chiari it can throw off liver enzymes and I believe GME can also. All of these things are treatable. Did your baby recently have vaccinations ?
If yes then it could be GME.

lillymae · 08-31-2010, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacs0517

He is out of balance all the time, he does like to rest a lot. I think his gums are okay. Breeder is giving us prednizone to see if in a few days he is getting better - do you think that could be harmful?

Does he often lay with his head resting up on something like the edge of his bed , your arm or leg , pillow or blanket ? I would deff not give him any med your vet did not prescribe. I'm also wondering why the breeder is suspecting anything going on with his brain. Makes me think she has seen this in her pups before and if so it's more then likely Chiari as this can be hereditary. If she's had pups with this condition , she needs to STOP breeding ASAP as it is coming from one or both parents.

jacs0517 · 08-31-2010, 11:59 PM

Sorry everyone, been away from the computer and didn't realize anyone had posted recently. Emergency clinic visit is tomorrow morning, it's 3:45am here and as you can see I can't sleep. I'm going to print down all the possible reasons for this situation... no, he doesn't rest his head on anything.

We did give him two days of Prednisone, and will tell the vet tomorrow. My breeder just scared me so much that I worried if we didn't and something happened I wouldn't live with myself. So the DR can decide if he should stay on it, or not – I just hope we haven’t done any more harm.

We are seeing the Internal Med Specialist tomorrow, and I don't know if he will suggest the Neurologist. The Internal Med Specialist is the same one that we saw for my late Oscar, so knowing how much I spent on him (10K) I am hoping he doesn’t just send him for every test in the book.

My breeder had a client whose dog had the same symptoms, and when they were put on Prednisone they got better. I believe she said it was encephalitis; however, her vet thought it was a leg issue and operated. She has been breeding yorkies for 12 plus years, and was taking the shunt very seriously – she has never had a case.

Well I am going to try to get a few hours of sleep, as my munchkins just came out to see where I was... so I should go climb back in bed with them.

jacs0517 · 09-01-2010, 12:04 AM

I forgot to mention that he did get a rabies shot on June 10th, and he had a lump on his back for about 6 weeks afterwards (I think it took a few days to show up - as we didn't put them together at first).

Carson is the one on the left in my avitar - he really is a beautiful yorkie.

08-30-2010, 10:11 AM	#16
kjc I♥PeekTinkySaph&Finny Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 18,872	Enchephalitis symptoms would occur mostly all the time, except while sleeping. What color are his gums? Does he scratch alot on his head, neck or shoulders? __________________ Kat Chloe Lizzy PeekABooTinkerbell SapphireInfinity Last edited by kjc; 08-30-2010 at 10:14 AM.

08-30-2010, 11:28 AM	#20
kjc I♥PeekTinkySaph&Finny Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 18,872	I think a shunt may be possible but not likely...I can't rule it out bc I am not a vet.... but with the numbers I've seen ( I have a LS dog) those numbers are way low. Plus legs giving out is not a major symptom of LS, even though it can be different for each dog. Also with numbers that low, very rarely are there any symptoms evident. Usually suspected on pre-op elevated liver enzymes (ALT, AST, GGT, ALP). Be sure to take the bloodwork with you to the ER. Maybe the Xray too. Keeping you and Carson in my prayers... And my deepest sympathies on your loss of little Oscar.... Very cute pups in your avatar! __________________ Kat Chloe Lizzy PeekABooTinkerbell SapphireInfinity Last edited by kjc; 08-30-2010 at 11:33 AM.

08-30-2010, 11:55 AM	#22
kjc I♥PeekTinkySaph&Finny Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 18,872	You're Welcome... Best of Luck and prayers for a quick diagnosis and even speedier recovery..... __________________ Kat Chloe Lizzy PeekABooTinkerbell SapphireInfinity

08-31-2010, 12:14 PM	#24
kjc I♥PeekTinkySaph&Finny Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 18,872	Just checking in for an update.... hoping everything went well at the vets.... __________________ Kat Chloe Lizzy PeekABooTinkerbell SapphireInfinity

08-31-2010, 12:58 PM	#25
luvfla YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Satellite Beach, FL Posts: 3,691	Sophie's number was much higher than that and her internest 95% ruled out shunt because she has NO symptoms. __________________ Elizabeth - mommy to...Keegan & Sweet Sophie RIP Duncan (the cat who wanted to be a dog) & Clarence

08-30-2010, 10:35 AM	#17
jacs0517 Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 107	He is out of balance all the time, he does like to rest a lot. I think his gums are okay. Breeder is giving us prednizone to see if in a few days he is getting better - do you think that could be harmful?

08-30-2010, 11:10 AM	#19
jacs0517 Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 107	Thank you, I think my husband is going to pick him up and take him to the emergency clinic. My vet is still standing by the fact that he has a shunt - aren't the levels too low?

08-30-2010, 11:50 AM	#21
jacs0517 Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 107	Thanks for all you advice, I will keep you posted once we hear back from the emergency vet.

08-31-2010, 05:44 AM	#23
bnbiggs Yorkie Talker Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: United States Posts: 12	After reading your post it kind of sounds like what I just went through with my little Dior. Dior is 6mths and she was basically just falling over and tripping over her feet. At first we thought it was cute that she was so clumsy, but then it started to bother me that she wasn't jumping or doing most things puppies do. She slept A LOT and just wasnt a carzy normal puppy. I took her to the vet and we did a bile acid test, her levels were elevated, but not over 100 like they should be if it was a true shunt. They then did an x-ray of her neck and we found out that it was AAI (Atlantoaxial instability). Basically spinal cord was being pinched and her feet weren't receiving brain signals correctly so she basically didn't know where they were. I would ask the vet about that because it's not very common but VERY serious until corrected. I don't want to scare you, but its a good thing to rule out if they are expressing neurological symptoms (basically walking drunk or stumbling).

08-31-2010, 10:58 PM	#27
lillymae YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Idaho Posts: 4,544	These symptoms can be AAI , Chiari , GME or LS. Kjc had mentioned MRI & Spinal Tap and if this were my pup that would be my next step. Also with Chiari it can throw off liver enzymes and I believe GME can also. All of these things are treatable. Did your baby recently have vaccinations ? If yes then it could be GME.

08-31-2010, 11:59 PM	#29
jacs0517 Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 107	Sorry everyone, been away from the computer and didn't realize anyone had posted recently. Emergency clinic visit is tomorrow morning, it's 3:45am here and as you can see I can't sleep. I'm going to print down all the possible reasons for this situation... no, he doesn't rest his head on anything. We did give him two days of Prednisone, and will tell the vet tomorrow. My breeder just scared me so much that I worried if we didn't and something happened I wouldn't live with myself. So the DR can decide if he should stay on it, or not – I just hope we haven’t done any more harm. We are seeing the Internal Med Specialist tomorrow, and I don't know if he will suggest the Neurologist. The Internal Med Specialist is the same one that we saw for my late Oscar, so knowing how much I spent on him (10K) I am hoping he doesn’t just send him for every test in the book. My breeder had a client whose dog had the same symptoms, and when they were put on Prednisone they got better. I believe she said it was encephalitis; however, her vet thought it was a leg issue and operated. She has been breeding yorkies for 12 plus years, and was taking the shunt very seriously – she has never had a case. Well I am going to try to get a few hours of sleep, as my munchkins just came out to see where I was... so I should go climb back in bed with them.

09-01-2010, 12:04 AM	#30
jacs0517 Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 107	I forgot to mention that he did get a rabies shot on June 10th, and he had a lump on his back for about 6 weeks afterwards (I think it took a few days to show up - as we didn't put them together at first). Carson is the one on the left in my avitar - he really is a beautiful yorkie.