Advice with Liver Shunt & MVD

[cdiaz1665]

Can anyone give me any suggestions about different types of Foods to feed me yorkie who was just diagnosed with MVD. He is on Hills L/D and he hates it, we also tried some K/D and he really not thrilled with it either.

Thank You

[BFar]

Originally Posted by Rocky38

I'm extremely angry.. at the breeder for bringing a dog into this world who has these types of problems.. MVD is hereditary and she really should not be breeding her dogs.. She should be fined or locked up.. It's animal cruelty.. I apologize .. i'm venting here. Anyhow, maybe someone can help me.. I want this person as well as the Puppy Boutique to be put out of business. I would also like for them to assist in the payments.. I've spent well over 10,000 in the past 7 months.. And I would pay as much as I would have to inorder to keep him healthy.. It is sad and unfair that anyone would allow any living breathing creature to enter this world to suffer... knowing that it could have been prevented!

Dee

You are not going to like my opinion. However, being this is a forum, that is what you are asking for here. Opinions from forum members, so remember that if you get mad ok? And if you think you might get really mad... don't read any further.

You did not buy your puppy from its breeder so how can you be mad at the breeder? After she sold her puppy to a commercial establishment for resale, she released herself from any liability for the puppy. The breeder didn't care enough about it to see where it would be spending it's life and you didn't do your research on how to buy a puppy. You didn't have the "hassle" of finding a good breeder, answering all her questions to see if you were a suitable home for her Yorkie and maybe even having to wait a few weeks or months for a puppy. Nope, most likely, you walked in, handed over the cash or credit card and walked out with a puppy.

You should have been given a printed consumer rights notice when you purchased your puppy. All your legal remedies are on that notice. If by some miracle you were not given that notice, it is my understanding that you may have a chance to recover some money from the seller.

I'm sad for you and your puppy's suffering and it sucks to learn the hard way, as you did, but really, you can only be mad at yourself. That said, most of us humans have had the "SUCKER" sticker on our foreheads at some time in our lives, just as you do now.

Spread the word of your experience with the place you bought your puppy and that's the only good I can see coming out of the whole thing.

I'm betting this is not what you wanted to hear, but remember, I told you in the beginning that you would probably not like my opinion.

[ArmaniMan]

Originally Posted by cdiaz1665

Can anyone give me any suggestions about different types of Foods to feed me yorkie who was just diagnosed with MVD. He is on Hills L/D and he hates it, we also tried some K/D and he really not thrilled with it either.

Thank You

It depends on how bad your dogs symptoms are.

My dogs both have MVD (one confirmed, one suspected) however, there levels werent very highly elevated and they have no symptoms of liver disease. Therefore, the vet recommended we stick with a moderate protein food, comprised of easily digestible proteins like chicken, whitefish, cod, or eggs.

I did have mine on a very low protein food for a short time and they did terrible, my male who has always been very active and healthy lost a ton of weight and energy.

So now I have them on Nature's Variety Kibble, chicken and rice formula. They get no extra protein, only added veggies and fruits as a treat.

Some whose dogs have higher elevated numbers or more symptoms are forced to stick with an extremely low protein diet and some even have to move away from all meat based proteins and stick only with egg and veggies.

[Micah my love]

Originally Posted by cdiaz1665

Can anyone give me any suggestions about different types of Foods to feed me yorkie who was just diagnosed with MVD. He is on Hills L/D and he hates it, we also tried some K/D and he really not thrilled with it either.

Thank You

My Micah has MVD and eats the L/D for a year now, if you change his food you will need to look for something very low in protein, so sorry your little one is sick

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by cdiaz1665

Can anyone give me any suggestions about different types of Foods to feed me yorkie who was just diagnosed with MVD. He is on Hills L/D and he hates it, we also tried some K/D and he really not thrilled with it either.

Thank You

You might want to do a consult with a veterinary nutritionist.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by BFar

You are not going to like my opinion. However, being this is a forum, that is what you are asking for here. Opinions from forum members, so remember that if you get mad ok? And if you think you might get really mad... don't read any further.

You did not buy your puppy from its breeder so how can you be mad at the breeder? After she sold her puppy to a commercial establishment for resale, she released herself from any liability for the puppy. The breeder didn't care enough about it to see where it would be spending it's life and you didn't do your research on how to buy a puppy. You didn't have the "hassle" of finding a good breeder, answering all her questions to see if you were a suitable home for her Yorkie and maybe even having to wait a few weeks or months for a puppy. Nope, most likely, you walked in, handed over the cash or credit card and walked out with a puppy.

You should have been given a printed consumer rights notice when you purchased your puppy. All your legal remedies are on that notice. If by some miracle you were not given that notice, it is my understanding that you may have a chance to recover some money from the seller.

I'm sad for you and your puppy's suffering and it sucks to learn the hard way, as you did, but really, you can only be mad at yourself. That said, most of us humans have had the "SUCKER" sticker on our foreheads at some time in our lives, just as you do now.

Spread the word of your experience with the place you bought your puppy and that's the only good I can see coming out of the whole thing.

I'm betting this is not what you wanted to hear, but remember, I told you in the beginning that you would probably not like my opinion.

So what if she bought a puppy from a petstore does that mean she is not permitted to have emotions? I have the three yorkies and two of them are pet store dogs. One of them is more healthy than the one I bought from a YTCA breeder. It's a living being and that means nothing is set in stone. And to be honest with you, I've been more upset about this latest situation more than the petstore dog!

[107barney]

Originally Posted by cdiaz1665

Can anyone give me any suggestions about different types of Foods to feed me yorkie who was just diagnosed with MVD. He is on Hills L/D and he hates it, we also tried some K/D and he really not thrilled with it either.

Thank You

I have a dog who is diagnosed with MVD. She has gone from having postprandial Bile Acids of 107 to Postprandial bile acids of 13 and it is all because of diet. We also give her Marin which contains silybin which is an extract of milk thistle shown to be beneficial in dogs with liver disease. It is an over the counter product that you can find on the internet but you should always tell your vet what you are doing.

My dog is one of the few dogs with MVD that has numbers that have shown this significant of an improvement and she has many other problems besides liver shunting.

I consulted a vet nutritionist and follow a home cooked diet prepared by her. The current cost is $95 plus $60 for a diet plus a one-time fee of $11 to register your dog. I deal with the vet nutritionist at Angell Memorial hospital in boston. Her name is Rebecca Remillard and she is board certified.

My dog also did not do well on the L/D food. Other people here have tried Royal Canin Hepatic but we never did because our dog has allergies to some of the ingredients. That may be an option as well.

[Ringo1]

Originally Posted by cdiaz1665

Can anyone give me any suggestions about different types of Foods to feed me yorkie who was just diagnosed with MVD. He is on Hills L/D and he hates it, we also tried some K/D and he really not thrilled with it either.

Thank You

It's going to depend on the severity of the MVD. Lucy has mildly elevated BAT's so we restrict her protein intake somewhat - and also consider what type of protein she is getting.

She seems to like her Natural Balance Vegetarian kibble - which I feed her in the morning. (She really only likes it because she doesn't want Ringo to get any Anyhoo, I mix that with cooked carrots at times; or green beans; or cottage cheese for a rare treat.

Of an evening, I feed her Wellness Limited Ingredient - which is a meat-based protein but with a fairly low level. She can tolerate chicken and fish; so I mix her evening meal with Wellness canned 99% chicken or salmon. I found some canned like 'Vegetable Stew' from Merrick but haven't been able to locate it lately. They both liked that. Sometimes I boil chicken (no spices) and mix the broth in.

She seems to well on this regime - with high energy and a shiny coat.

Every dog is different as to what they need and what they can tolerate. You can search the forum; there are several threads on food. I would also consult with my Vet.

We tend to stay away from any kind of red meat such as beef as it seems the liver has a harder time processing that - especially the 'liver compromised'.

Good Luck!

[BFar]

Originally Posted by 107barney

So what if she bought a puppy from a petstore does that mean she is not permitted to have emotions? I have the three yorkies and two of them are pet store dogs. One of them is more healthy than the one I bought from a YTCA breeder. It's a living being and that means nothing is set in stone. And to be honest with you, I've been more upset about this latest situation more than the petstore dog!

Anyone is permitted to have emotions, of course, but when you buy from a pet store, you eliminate the breeder. Also, when you buy from a pet store, you only have the legal remedies set out by your state's law.

Nobody can guarantee that another living thing is going to be healthy or not get sick... Even the best, most conscientious breeder can only guarantee what she will do in the event that a puppy should get sick. Liver shunt has not been eliminated in this breed yet, no matter who is doing the breeding. I am not sticking up for the breeder of Rocky but her dogs could have been clear of liver shunt and never produced one until now... or she could have a history of liver shunt and continue to breed them... we'll never know because the breeder is out of the picture. The purchaser doesn't know anything about the parents, grandparents or siblings.

I am not a YTCA member but I was under the impression that if you bought a puppy from a YTCA member and they were less than honest with you, you have the recourse of complaining to the YTCA and they will investigate. This is my understanding but you may want to ask an actual YTCA member about this or write to someone from the club.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by BFar

Anyone is permitted to have emotions, of course, but when you buy from a pet store, you eliminate the breeder. Also, when you buy from a pet store, you only have the legal remedies set out by your state's law.

Nobody can guarantee that another living thing is going to be healthy or not get sick... Even the best, most conscientious breeder can only guarantee what she will do in the event that a puppy should get sick. Liver shunt has not been eliminated in this breed yet, no matter who is doing the breeding. I am not sticking up for the breeder of Rocky but her dogs could have been clear of liver shunt and never produced one until now... or she could have a history of liver shunt and continue to breed them... we'll never know because the breeder is out of the picture. The purchaser doesn't know anything about the parents, grandparents or siblings.

I am not a YTCA member but I was under the impression that if you bought a puppy from a YTCA member and they were less than honest with you, you have the recourse of complaining to the YTCA and they will investigate. This is my understanding but you may want to ask an actual YTCA member about this or write to someone from the club.

My point was that at this stage, Rocky is here and the owner needs assistance with managing MVD. I think she can be angry at the breeder, angry at the petstore, and angry at herself. I know I was with my pet store purchase.

I never said that the YTCA breeder I bought from was dishonest with me so please do not import words into my post. I said that I was not happy with the fact that I have a dog with problems, but that is a part of life. I am more angry because I tried to do something different than I did 10 years ago and carefully selected a breeder but got a sick dog anyway. That's life. I'm fully aware of all of my rights including my legal rights. The issue is resolved with the breeder to my satisfaction.

So much is said on this site about finding a good breeder and I am all for that. I am just saying that with life, there are no certainties and even if a breeder stands behind the dog and the purchase, the owner still has the responsibility to care for a dog with problems. Rocky's owner needs support and information. She is entitled to be angry and frustrated. She knows she made a mistake, but Rocky is hers and she loves him. Our job here on YT now is to help her to help Rocky and to be able to do that lovingly so that Rocky has a forever home with her. MVD is very manageable.

[BFar]

Originally Posted by 107barney

[/B]

My point was that at this stage, Rocky is here and the owner needs assistance with managing MVD. I think she can be angry at the breeder, angry at the petstore, and angry at herself. I know I was with my pet store purchase.

I never said that the YTCA breeder I bought from was dishonest with me so please do not import words into my post. I said that I was not happy with the fact that I have a dog with problems, but that is a part of life. I am more angry because I tried to do something different than I did 10 years ago and carefully selected a breeder but got a sick dog anyway. That's life. I'm fully aware of all of my rights including my legal rights. The issue is resolved with the breeder to my satisfaction.

So much is said on this site about finding a good breeder and I am all for that. I am just saying that with life, there are no certainties and even if a breeder stands behind the dog and the purchase, the owner still has the responsibility to care for a dog with problems. Rocky's owner needs support and information. She is entitled to be angry and frustrated. She knows she made a mistake, but Rocky is hers and she loves him. Our job here on YT now is to help her to help Rocky and to be able to do that lovingly so that Rocky has a forever home with her. MVD is very manageable.

I definitely feel for her and her Yorkie. It's heartbreaking. I love mine like my children, and I'm sure she does too. I can't offer her any advice in managing his symptoms, that is left for the members on here that have experience with that. However, she was ranting at the breeder and the pet store and I do have an opinion on that. True story: I was Christmas shopping at the mall with my Yorkie and someone who saw him said they were going to get a Yorkie from that same place as the OP. I tried really hard to tell her that she should go to a reputable breeder and how and why... She just kept on snappin her gum and saying that she had one picked out and he was a TEACUP and she was gettin 'em. So this is ann ongoing problem

I did not mean to imply that your breeder was dishonest with you. From what you wrote, I did get the impression that you were dissatisfied and I only said "if" the breeder was less than honest. Really, you are the one who brought it up. I know you can get a liver shunt puppy anywhere and then you're in love with him, so it's a terrible situation. Maybe BAT should be done before a puppy is sent off to a new home for everyone's sake even if it means getting the puppy a little later than 12 weeks.

To the OP: You are a shining example of why one should go to a reputable breeder. Since you are going the distance for this puppy, obviously you are a wonderful home and any breeder would be happy to entrust you with one of their puppies. If you had gone to a reputable breeder, they would be crying right along with you and helping you and the frustration part of this at least would be less, just like what 107Barney said happened to her. I know it's too late for that and you learned the hard way. In no way do I think you deserve what you got. It's not like that but consider that YT has a lot of members. Who knows, maybe the gum snapper at the mall will read this.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by BFar

You are not going to like my opinion. However, being this is a forum, that is what you are asking for here. Opinions from forum members, so remember that if you get mad ok? And if you think you might get really mad... don't read any further.

You did not buy your puppy from its breeder so how can you be mad at the breeder? After she sold her puppy to a commercial establishment for resale, she released herself from any liability for the puppy. The breeder didn't care enough about it to see where it would be spending it's life and you didn't do your research on how to buy a puppy. You didn't have the "hassle" of finding a good breeder, answering all her questions to see if you were a suitable home for her Yorkie and maybe even having to wait a few weeks or months for a puppy. Nope, most likely, you walked in, handed over the cash or credit card and walked out with a puppy.

You should have been given a printed consumer rights notice when you purchased your puppy. All your legal remedies are on that notice. If by some miracle you were not given that notice, it is my understanding that you may have a chance to recover some money from the seller.

I'm sad for you and your puppy's suffering and it sucks to learn the hard way, as you did, but really, you can only be mad at yourself. That said, most of us humans have had the "SUCKER" sticker on our foreheads at some time in our lives, just as you do now.

Spread the word of your experience with the place you bought your puppy and that's the only good I can see coming out of the whole thing.

I'm betting this is not what you wanted to hear, but remember, I told you in the beginning that you would probably not like my opinion.

Originally Posted by BFar

I definitely feel for her and her Yorkie. It's heartbreaking. I love mine like my children, and I'm sure she does too. I can't offer her any advice in managing his symptoms, that is left for the members on here that have experience with that. However, she was ranting at the breeder and the pet store and I do have an opinion on that. True story: I was Christmas shopping at the mall with my Yorkie and someone who saw him said they were going to get a Yorkie from that same place as the OP. I tried really hard to tell her that she should go to a reputable breeder and how and why... She just kept on snappin her gum and saying that she had one picked out and he was a TEACUP and she was gettin 'em. So this is ann ongoing problem

I did not mean to imply that your breeder was dishonest with you. From what you wrote, I did get the impression that you were dissatisfied and I only said "if" the breeder was less than honest. Really, you are the one who brought it up. I know you can get a liver shunt puppy anywhere and then you're in love with him, so it's a terrible situation. Maybe BAT should be done before a puppy is sent off to a new home for everyone's sake even if it means getting the puppy a little later than 12 weeks.

To the OP: You are a shining example of why one should go to a reputable breeder. Since you are going the distance for this puppy, obviously you are a wonderful home and any breeder would be happy to entrust you with one of their puppies. If you had gone to a reputable breeder, they would be crying right along with you and helping you and the frustration part of this at least would be less, just like what 107Barney said happened to her. I know it's too late for that and you learned the hard way. In no way do I think you deserve what you got. It's not like that but consider that YT has a lot of members. Who knows, maybe the gum snapper at the mall will read this.

I am not even sure why you are posting any of this on a thread that was started 8/10/10 and the OPer has not been back since 8/14. What exactly was the purpose

[107barney]

Originally Posted by BFar

I definitely feel for her and her Yorkie. It's heartbreaking. I love mine like my children, and I'm sure she does too. I can't offer her any advice in managing his symptoms, that is left for the members on here that have experience with that. However, she was ranting at the breeder and the pet store and I do have an opinion on that. True story: I was Christmas shopping at the mall with my Yorkie and someone who saw him said they were going to get a Yorkie from that same place as the OP. I tried really hard to tell her that she should go to a reputable breeder and how and why... She just kept on snappin her gum and saying that she had one picked out and he was a TEACUP and she was gettin 'em. So this is ann ongoing problem

I did not mean to imply that your breeder was dishonest with you. From what you wrote, I did get the impression that you were dissatisfied and I only said "if" the breeder was less than honest. Really, you are the one who brought it up. I know you can get a liver shunt puppy anywhere and then you're in love with him, so it's a terrible situation. Maybe BAT should be done before a puppy is sent off to a new home for everyone's sake even if it means getting the puppy a little later than 12 weeks.

To the OP: You are a shining example of why one should go to a reputable breeder. Since you are going the distance for this puppy, obviously you are a wonderful home and any breeder would be happy to entrust you with one of their puppies. If you had gone to a reputable breeder, they would be crying right along with you and helping you and the frustration part of this at least would be less, just like what 107Barney said happened to her. I know it's too late for that and you learned the hard way. In no way do I think you deserve what you got. It's not like that but consider that YT has a lot of members. Who knows, maybe the gum snapper at the mall will read this.

I never said I was dissatisfied with the breeder. I said the situation with my dog from the breeder upset me more than the situation with my dog from a pet store. I stated in my later post that the issue with the breeder was resolved to my satisfaction. Yes, I did bring it up, but only to suggest that buying from a good breeder is not a guarantee that your dog will be free of problems. You hope it is, and if it is not, then a reputable breeder will stand behind the dog. However, at the end of the day, monetary compensation does not drive your dog to the vet, pay the emotional costs of a sick dog, dole out medicine when it needs it, or comfort the dog in its distress. Those are things done by the owner, not the breeder. As much as a breeder may care and share a tear or provide monetary compensation, the owner is the one emotionally bonded to the dog and ultimately responsible for its health and welfare. So many owners fail at that, so I (and many others on this sick and injured forum) try to empower owners to seek appropriate medical care rather than beat them up over a purchase they already made. I bought my pet store dogs 10 years ago, I have as much emotion and anger toward the puppy mill producing them as the day I had my eyes opened with an 8-week old puppy who I barely kept alive. Breeder or no breeder, she needed me, and I took that job very seriously. I will never forget nor regret the day I walked out of the pet store with her. And no breeder alive can replace her.

ETA: My dog from the YTCA breeder is not my liver shunt/MVD dog.

[BFar]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

I am not even sure why you are posting any of this on a thread that was started 8/10/10 and the OPer has not been back since 8/14. What exactly was the purpose

Didn't notice it was an old thread. My bad. I guess others didn't notice it was an old thread either.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by BFar

Didn't notice it was an old thread. My bad. I guess others didn't notice it was an old thread either.

Someone else posted today asking for MVD info which is what bumped the thread.