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YorkieTalk.com Forums - Yorkshire Terrier Community (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/index.php)
-   Sick & Injured / Emergencies Talk (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/)
-   -   Hearbroken, Devastated, Scared - New Puppy (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/209907-hearbroken-devastated-scared-new-puppy.html)

AllDogBoots 08-07-2010 07:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 3229956)
Oh, Karen, it broke my heart to watch that. My Lady has been epileptic since I adopted her ten years ago and I still haven't gotten used to seeing her have a seizure.

I just want to comment you for stay so calm throughout all this. I know that you have been bombarded with advice here. I think you are smart to wait for the results of Max's BAT, then take it from there. You should have the results back Monday or Tuesday, right?

Have you heard anything back from his breeder? I would expect a breeder to be very worried about a puppy with his symptoms and keep in constant touch.
The breeder sent me an email yesterday asking about results. All the emails from her are accusing me of doing something to Max. It's senseless to even email her at all. There's no reason to blame anyone. I prefer to fight the battle with Max first and then will deal with the breeder. The BAT results should be in today or Monday the latest.

My vet said most dogs don't become epileptic until 1 year. I don't know if he has seizures or not.

ladyjane 08-07-2010 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3229957)
The breeder sent me an email yesterday asking about results. All the emails from her are accusing me of doing something to Max. It's senseless to even email her at all. There's no reason to blame anyone. I prefer to fight the battle with Max first and then will deal with the breeder. The BAT results should be in today or Monday the latest.

My vet said most dogs don't become epileptic until 1 year. I don't know if he has seizures or not.
I am so sorry the breeder has chosen to behave in such an unkind and unprofessional manner. You and Max deserve more than that.

I agree with you that communicating with her is senseless right now. Just take care of Max and be thankful that whatever this is was seen by you and not by her. I shudder to think what might have happened to him. Again, thank God he is with you!!

You have plenty of time to deal with her later on. Max needs you right now. :)

Mitzis Mom 08-07-2010 07:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 3229937)
Interesting link about tremors in dogs:


Tremors/Shaking in Dogs
Great article! Thanks for the link... :thumbup:

Rhetts_mama 08-07-2010 07:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3229434)
Here is a bit more observation as I'm getting to know Max a little better:

He is still having episodes although I'm not quite as afraid because there's nothing I can do right now. I'm learning about them but still have no idea what it is. If he is in an episode, I can stop it physically or verbally. If i touch him he stops. If I call his name he will pounce at me with kisses. If he's very still I can even at times induce it by keeping him still. I can try to control it in advance if i keep him active. He will never "seize" or whatever it is as long as he is active - playing, eating or whatever. He will generally fall asleep afterwards and never do it in his sleep. I don't think that eating or not eating has nothing to do with it. I'm not seeing any differences on an empty or a full belly. Only if he's very still, he does it.

I just wanted to add as much as possible in case this is familiar to anyone else.
Haven't read through all of the responses yet, but if it were a seizure you would not be able to stop it.

The fact that you can snap him out and then cause one by making him lie still is very interesting clinically- in my mind it would rule out toxins.

A focal seizure btw, means that the seizure is focused or limited to one area (such as a particular limb) versus being generalized over the entire body.

Also, seizures, even focal ones, tend to be followed something called a postictal state- the pup either goes to sleep or appears disoriented afterwards.

You are making some great observations!

Ladymom 08-07-2010 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3229957)
The breeder sent me an email yesterday asking about results. All the emails from her are accusing me of doing something to Max. It's senseless to even email her at all. There's no reason to blame anyone. I prefer to fight the battle with Max first and then will deal with the breeder. The BAT results should be in today or Monday the latest.

My vet said most dogs don't become epileptic until 1 year. I don't know if he has seizures or not.
Your vet is right. True idiopathic epilepsy usually starts between 1-5 years. Seizures in a puppy less than a year old are usually a symptom of an underlying disease.

This is a great website about epilepsy, but it might be information overload at this point so you might not even want to look at it.

Canine epilepsy and diseases that cause seizures in dogs

I am so sorry your breeder isn't being supportive. Both of you should be working together to find out what is causing Max's episodes. You don't seem to be placing blame on the breeder at this point so it's a shame she is accusing you of injuring him. Instead of being defensive, her main concern should be Max.

AllDogBoots 08-07-2010 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 3229995)
Haven't read through all of the responses yet, but if it were a seizure you would not be able to stop it.

The fact that you can snap him out and then cause one by making him lie still is very interesting clinically- in my mind it would rule out toxins.

A focal seizure btw, means that the seizure is focused or limited to one area (such as a particular limb) versus being generalized over the entire body.

Also, seizures, even focal ones, tend to be followed something called a postictal state- the pup either goes to sleep or appears disoriented afterwards.

You are making some great observations!
Max is coherent when he's having an episode, so that's why i say i can snap him out of it. I feel I can get him to unfocus on whatever it is that he's been focused on. He stares before an episode. If i get him to stop staring and look at me or get him involved in something, he usually will.

AllDogBoots 08-07-2010 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 3230001)
Your vet is right. True idiopathic epilepsy usually starts between 1-5 years. Seizures in a puppy less than a year old are usually a symptom of an underlying disease.

This is a great website about epilepsy, but it might be information overload at this point so you might not even want to look at it.

Canine epilepsy and diseases that cause seizures in dogs

I am so sorry your breeder isn't being supportive. Both of you should be working together to find out what is causing Max's episodes. You don't seem to be placing blame on the breeder at this point so it's a shame she is accusing you of injuring him. Instead of being defensive, her main concern should be Max.
1. I'm not clicking that:)
2. Karma.

bjh 08-07-2010 08:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3230009)
Max is coherent when he's having an episode, so that's why i say i can snap him out of it. I feel I can get him to unfocus on whatever it is that he's been focused on. He stares before an episode. If i get him to stop staring and look at me or get him involved in something, he usually will.
I am really glad that so far the blood work looks good. Looking at your last video I did not really see anything out of the ordinary. Is it possible that some of what you are observing is just normal puppy behavior? He is still a young puppy and I know from my experience puppies will play hard and then crash. Perhaps he is just pushing himself too much and is just fighting going to sleep. Does he have scheduled playtime where he is allowed to have run of the house or does he have free run of the house all of the time? I have no doubt that he did have some type of seizure in the beginning if he was having trouble walking but do you think they have gotten less severe? I hope you get some answers soon. I know it would be worrisome even if all the symptoms went away because you will always wonder what caused his bizarre behavior.

AllDogBoots 08-07-2010 08:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjh (Post 3230023)
I am really glad that so far the blood work looks good. Looking at your last video I did not really see anything out of the ordinary. Is it possible that some of what you are observing is just normal puppy behavior? He is still a young puppy and I know from my experience puppies will play hard and then crash. Perhaps he is just pushing himself too much and is just fighting going to sleep. Does he have scheduled playtime where he is allowed to have run of the house or does he have free run of the house all of the time? I have no doubt that he did have some type of seizure in the beginning if he was having trouble walking but do you think they have gotten less severe? I hope you get some answers soon. I know it would be worrisome even if all the symptoms went away because you will always wonder what caused his bizarre behavior.
It doesn't seem to be when he's playing hard at all. This morning he woke up and i took him out of his crate and he did it immediately. He has scheduled play time. I work from home; i'm always home and watch his every move.

It seems they are becoming more frequent, however no more severe. Have you seen this video? This is the worst i've seen so far

Zanders' mom 08-07-2010 09:21 AM
Just came across this thread, so sorry to read about what Max is going through. It is heart breaking when we see our furbabies sick, not knowing or being able to help is the worst. I am leaning on it being a reaction to the sentinal, (I would not expect the manuf. to admit that Max's symptoms could be caused by their product, even if it were). Just my observation. Hoping for GOOD news for Max. Stay strong.

Breezeaway 08-07-2010 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 3229995)
Haven't read through all of the responses yet, but if it were a seizure you would not be able to stop it.

The fact that you can snap him out and then cause one by making him lie still is very interesting clinically- in my mind it would rule out toxins.

A focal seizure btw, means that the seizure is focused or limited to one area (such as a particular limb) versus being generalized over the entire body.

Also, seizures, even focal ones, tend to be followed something called a postictal state- the pup either goes to sleep or appears disoriented afterwards.

You are making some great observations!
Simple focal/partial seizures do not disorient them, They come in alot of different types.
From my experience they can start in a puppy usually around 10 to 14 weeks old and can disappear suddenly like they came at 5 to 6 months old. Some breeders blame it on a head injury and place the blame on the buyer. It can be caused by an injury or it can be brought on by poisons etc etc or It can be hereditary.
You will not know if it was hereditary or not unless you breed and it shows up in the puppies. Then you know it was inherited from the parents. There is so much more to it than just a cut dry and diagnosis.

bjh 08-07-2010 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllDogBoots (Post 3230039)
It doesn't seem to be when he's playing hard at all. This morning he woke up and i took him out of his crate and he did it immediately. He has scheduled play time. I work from home; i'm always home and watch his every move.

It seems they are becoming more frequent, however no more severe. Have you seen this video? This is the worst i've seen so far

YouTube - ‪MOV02917‬‎
Yes, I think that is the video I saw a couple of days ago. It does look like a seizure of some kind to me. It would worry me if they are becoming more frequent. I was hoping they would be lessening. I do feel that giving him milk thistle might help in cleansing the liver in case his problem is a reaction from the Sentinel. I pray you get some answers soon.

only2xnseya 08-07-2010 10:51 AM
I have been following up with you and Max. I hope both of you are well today. I just want to say your a saint because i probably would have been arrested for the way the Breeder spoke with you. That is suppose to be her child no matter where or who it now belongs to. I cant believe that instead of wondering what the hell happen she automatically can say it was you.

Continue to keep us update on you and your lil guy and we are with you 10,000% if that exist lol.

And tell your breeder she has placed shame on the world of breeding and if things go from bad to worse... we will put the word out on her! It is easier for comments to rub off when they are said on the phone but BLACK AND WHITE LAST FOREVER! ( she does not want a bad view especially on the computer the whole world would know in the next hour)

AllDogBoots 08-07-2010 11:16 AM
I just received a long email from my breeder. Here is the first sentence:

"HI, KAREN I HAVE A DEEP SENSE THAT YOUR OTHER DOG HURT THIS PUPPY, I AM NOT SAYING IT IS YOUR FAULT BUT I CAN"T HELP BUT WONDER WHY HE LIVED HERE PERFECTLY FINE FOR ALMOST 11 WEEKS WITH 0 PROBLEMS AND LEAVES HERE ON SATURDAY AND CHECKS OUT 100 % AT YOUR VET ON MONDAY AND THEN BAM HE STARTS HAVING PROBLEMS I AM JUST NOT BUYING INTO IT..."

I am no longer going to respond. I'm not asking her to "buy it" or anything of that sort. I've requested NOTHING of her and continually get emails saying Cooper hurt him. Deeply upsetting.

Breezeaway 08-07-2010 11:21 AM
For some reason I think this breeder is in for a rude awakening on Facebook.


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