Left on the carpet today: What might the cause of this symptom be?

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by orlnurse

Maybe the fat content is too high for him in the Orijen, the cheese may be too much and I think peas are hard to digest. I've been having a similar problem with Max and I've been doing some reading. It could be some mild colitis or pancreatitis. The symptoms you are describing can be due to the stomach ache related to colitis. They may do some liver and pancreatic enzymes to form a diagnosis. Since these episodes are happening every 2-3 weeks, he should definitely be seen by the vet. Sounds like its becoming more a chronic than an acute problem.

By the way, I noticed that his last WBCs were elevated; that can be common with these problems.

yes pancreatitis they will have high wbc, amylase and lipase (but that is variable) so cpli is best to have done for accuracy.

I missed the cheese? No cheese too high in fat

He is eating grass as he is trying to make himself vomit

It is good we are catching this all now before this spins out of control though into a pancreatitis attack - it is not fun dealing with pancreatitis as i almost lost my dex to this 4 years ago and took me a year to get him on track and thousands of dollars too. He has been doing well for 4 years now thank goodness

[gaijingirl]

I haven't been giving him any cheese for about 4 days now. Before that, it was just a shred here and there or pin-head sized bit for reward. But, if it will upset his stomach, I will not give him any more.

Should I put him on just a bland diet for a few days, like rice and some sort of protein source?

I know the Orijen is really high in protein. I'm getting so confused about all this food stuff! Everything I've read on here and other sites talks about how this food is pretty much the best stuff out there. I've read that dogs with IBD should be on a really high protein, low carb diet...and then I've also read that they should be on a low protein, high carb diet.

I've heard that Orijen is about the closest thing you can get to a raw diet, in a dry dog food form, And, if the dog was "in the wild" eating raw meat, wouldn't they be eating a high protein diet? If I was to feed raw, would that be harmful to Snickers if he had IBD? I know most people who do feed raw are huge believers in it and feel it is the best and only way to go.

So, should I take him to the vet ASAP? And if so, what EXACTLY should I ask them for?

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by gaijingirl

I haven't been giving him any cheese for about 4 days now. Before that, it was just a shred here and there or pin-head sized bit for reward. But, if it will upset his stomach, I will not give him any more.

Should I put him on just a bland diet for a few days, like rice and some sort of protein source?

I know the Orijen is really high in protein. I'm getting so confused about all this food stuff! Everything I've read on here and other sites talks about how this food is pretty much the best stuff out there. I've read that dogs with IBD should be on a really high protein, low carb diet...and then I've also read that they should be on a low protein, high carb diet.

I've heard that Orijen is about the closest thing you can get to a raw diet, in a dry dog food form, And, if the dog was "in the wild" eating raw meat, wouldn't they be eating a high protein diet? If I was to feed raw, would that be harmful to Snickers if he had IBD? I know most people who do feed raw are huge believers in it and feel it is the best and only way to go.

So, should I take him to the vet ASAP? And if so, what EXACTLY should I ask them for?

I fed raw before and read alot on it. If you read the raw diets on primal.com they are not very high in protein surprisingly. For ex see below from primal it is 16% protein and fat is 4%.

Complete Raw Diets for Pets: Canine Venison Formula

Raw is not bad it is just if you get a bad batch you are screwed as my friend did of stevies and her dogs were all sick.

I do not like raw for IBD dogs though as the intestines are inflamed so the food sits in the digestive tract too long thus can cause problems like salmonella or ecoli. If a healthy digestive tract then it is fine.

If he is not throwing up over and over then you may be ok and just start transition off this food to a lower protein and lower fat food and stop everything else immediately. The fact that he is showing these signs means he is not handling this diet well as nothing else is showing up on blood work etc.

How long have you been feeding this food and did you have blood work after feeding it?

I am a believer in the best food for a dog is the one that works.

[gaijingirl]

Originally Posted by dwerten

I fed raw before and read alot on it. If you read the raw diets on primal.com they are not very high in protein surprisingly. For ex see below from primal it is 16% protein and fat is 4%.

Complete Raw Diets for Pets: Canine Venison Formula

Raw is not bad it is just if you get a bad batch you are screwed as my friend did of stevies and her dogs were all sick.

I do not like raw for IBD dogs though as the intestines are inflamed so the food sits in the digestive tract too long thus can cause problems like salmonella or ecoli. If a healthy digestive tract then it is fine.

If he is not throwing up over and over then you may be ok and just start transition off this food to a lower protein and lower fat food and stop everything else immediately. The fact that he is showing these signs means he is not handling this diet well as nothing else is showing up on blood work etc.

How long have you been feeding this food and did you have blood work after feeding it?

I am a believer in the best food for a dog is the one that works.

No, he is not throwing up all over. He threw up once on Friday Morning and then was fine the rest of the day. He is more or less seems like he has a sore tummy with refusing food and then the gurgling sounds.
He did have bloodwork done after starting this food, but he had only been on it for about 2 weeks at that point. But, I think they may have only checked the things that had shown unusually high levels previously.

I'm starting to think that no food is going to work for him. I've tried 3 different things in the 5 months I've had him. (Science Diet before the Blue Buffalo and Orijen).

[orlnurse]

Max has been experiencing some similar symptoms as you have been explaining. We tried Raw in the past and he could not tolerate it. We've tried just about everything...Orijen, Acana, BARF Raw patties, Artemis and now Natural Balance which has a 21% crude protein and 10-12% fat content. He is still having some symptoms with the lower fat and protein content. We are currently being seen by the vet and will be getting our results soon.

I would try to get your boy into the vet tomorrow since he's been having symptoms now for a few days.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by orlnurse

Max has been experiencing some similar symptoms as you have been explaining. We tried Raw in the past and he could not tolerate it. We've tried just about everything...Orijen, Acana, BARF Raw patties, Artemis and now Natural Balance which has a 21% crude protein and 10-12% fat content. He is still having some symptoms with the lower fat and protein content. We are currently being seen by the vet and will be getting our results soon.

I would try to get your boy into the vet tomorrow since he's been having symptoms now for a few days.

what natural balance are you doing though? does it have chicken in it? The venison works great and if you need to go lower then fish and sweet potato is the lower protein

[gaijingirl]

Decided to make a vet run. Waiting here now. I guess his temp. is a bit high now too. @ 102. Poor little dude. I really hope I can get some more answers this time...we've been here too much (according to my husband!)

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by gaijingirl

Decided to make a vet run. Waiting here now. I guess his temp. is a bit high now too. @ 102. Poor little dude. I really hope I can get some more answers this time...we've been here too much (according to my husband!)

how did vet appt turn out?

[gaijingirl]

Well, the vet couldn't give me a definitive answer about what the problem could be for sure. He gave me 3 prescriptions: one for an antispasmotic to calm his stomach, and then some metronidazole and pancur. He said that he did de-worm him back in April, but wants to do it again in case it's Giardia and said it can't hurt.

He did a blood test again and everything came back normal.

He agreed that the food he is on now could be too high in protein or in fat for him and that maybe he just has a very sensitive digestive system. We also talked about allergies causing some of his problems (he is itchy a lot and rubs his head, especially after waking up, and has had a pimple on his front leg for the past couple days, so he definitely has some skin issues that are coming up, whether it be from environmental factors or food, I don't know.)
He prefers me to try staying on the Orijen for the next few days and feed nothing else and see if the medication makes any difference. He said after that if he is still having problems then we should look at a different food. I told him that I was concerned about the food causing pancreatitis if it is, in fact, too high in fat for him. He understood the concern about that also, I think he wants to try to put in or remove variables one at a time. Snickers always seems to be OK when he is on an antibiotic, but it's after he gets off of it for a few days that he gets bad again. So, I think he might be OK for the next few days, but it's after that I am concerned.

So, now I don't know what to do! Obviously, I want to do whatever is going to be best for Snickers so he will feel better as soon as possible and I also want to figure out the cause of his troubles so we can fix it as soon as possible. Should I do what the vet says and keep him on the Orijen? Or, should I try just putting him on a homemade diet with just a rice and protein source for a little bit?

[princessizzy]

Originally Posted by gaijingirl

Here is the link to the food he is currently on:

Orijen Reginal Red

You can click on all the information about the analysis, calories and ingredients on the left hand side.
He eats about a 1/2 cup per day...sometimes less. I mostly let him free feed.
He had actually been good on this food for about a month until he started getting bad.

Prior to this, I had him on Blue Buffalo Puppy Chicken and Brown Rice recipe.

He was also on this food for about a month before he started getting sick. Although when he was sick then, it was a reoccurring fever along with the vomiting and diarrhea and he was REALLY bad. (Initially the vet thought it was a virus and then parasites).

It looks like good food but it is VERY high in protien and fat..it may be too much for his tummy ...And i wonder why your vet would have you give fish oil when this food have alot of the omaga 3 and 6 etc. I would see my vet. i know when izzy got sick they put her on a boiled beef (drained) and rice diet for a few days. My izzy is now on Natural Balance food...and does great.

[princessizzy]

Originally Posted by gaijingirl

Well, the vet couldn't give me a definitive answer about what the problem could be for sure. He gave me 3 prescriptions: one for an antispasmotic to calm his stomach, and then some metronidazole and pancur. He said that he did de-worm him back in April, but wants to do it again in case it's Giardia and said it can't hurt.

He did a blood test again and everything came back normal.

He agreed that the food he is on now could be too high in protein or in fat for him and that maybe he just has a very sensitive digestive system. We also talked about allergies causing some of his problems (he is itchy a lot and rubs his head, especially after waking up, and has had a pimple on his front leg for the past couple days, so he definitely has some skin issues that are coming up, whether it be from environmental factors or food, I don't know.)
He prefers me to try staying on the Orijen for the next few days and feed nothing else and see if the medication makes any difference. He said after that if he is still having problems then we should look at a different food. I told him that I was concerned about the food causing pancreatitis if it is, in fact, too high in fat for him. He understood the concern about that also, I think he wants to try to put in or remove variables one at a time. Snickers always seems to be OK when he is on an antibiotic, but it's after he gets off of it for a few days that he gets bad again. So, I think he might be OK for the next few days, but it's after that I am concerned.

So, now I don't know what to do! Obviously, I want to do whatever is going to be best for Snickers so he will feel better as soon as possible and I also want to figure out the cause of his troubles so we can fix it as soon as possible. Should I do what the vet says and keep him on the Orijen? Or, should I try just putting him on a homemade diet with just a rice and protein source for a little bit?

Maybe get a 2nd opinion but if it were me I would do a boiled meat (beef or chicken) and rice. I know that helped Izzy and it will calm his tummy down for such, but you need to do what you feel is right. I hope your furbaby starts feeling better soon.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by gaijingirl

Well, the vet couldn't give me a definitive answer about what the problem could be for sure. He gave me 3 prescriptions: one for an antispasmotic to calm his stomach, and then some metronidazole and pancur. He said that he did de-worm him back in April, but wants to do it again in case it's Giardia and said it can't hurt.

He did a blood test again and everything came back normal.

He agreed that the food he is on now could be too high in protein or in fat for him and that maybe he just has a very sensitive digestive system. We also talked about allergies causing some of his problems (he is itchy a lot and rubs his head, especially after waking up, and has had a pimple on his front leg for the past couple days, so he definitely has some skin issues that are coming up, whether it be from environmental factors or food, I don't know.)
He prefers me to try staying on the Orijen for the next few days and feed nothing else and see if the medication makes any difference. He said after that if he is still having problems then we should look at a different food. I told him that I was concerned about the food causing pancreatitis if it is, in fact, too high in fat for him. He understood the concern about that also, I think he wants to try to put in or remove variables one at a time. Snickers always seems to be OK when he is on an antibiotic, but it's after he gets off of it for a few days that he gets bad again. So, I think he might be OK for the next few days, but it's after that I am concerned.

So, now I don't know what to do! Obviously, I want to do whatever is going to be best for Snickers so he will feel better as soon as possible and I also want to figure out the cause of his troubles so we can fix it as soon as possible. Should I do what the vet says and keep him on the Orijen? Or, should I try just putting him on a homemade diet with just a rice and protein source for a little bit?

UGHHHHHH the vet is just covering up the symptoms with drugs sadly

Did he do a fecal to rule out giardia? Why give a antibiotic if no infection? Why give panacur if no parasites. Both of those things can be ruled out with a fecal so why give these two drugs if nothing is on the fecal makes no sense to me. Also why give an anti-vomitting drug to a dog to cover up the vomitting. He is just trying to mask the problems instead of figuring out what is truly causing this which i am 99.9% it is the food and supplements along with extras given. That food is way too high in protein and fat for this breed. The protein can lead to stones as well as kidney issues and the fat can lead to pancreatitis. Vets are clueless when it comes to food as they take one class in vet school on nutrition

The pimple on leg can be a staph infection from itching. Usually staph can happen when dogs are itching and licking. Allergies and ibd many times go hand in hand - one is a food intolerance and one is a allergic reaction to food but go along with each other. A dog with either needs to be on a limited ingredient food only and no treats or supplements until you can figure out what is going on.

If you want to do a food elimination diet then cook cod (you can get at costco in frozen section ) and you have to have never fed cod before and then feed sweet potato if you have never fed sweet potato - you do this for 12 weeks and this will tell you if it is food related allergy or ibd. It has to be a novel protein and novel carb something they never ate before. The protein is usually where the reaction comes from

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by princessizzy

Maybe get a 2nd opinion but if it were me I would do a boiled meat (beef or chicken) and rice. I know that helped Izzy and it will calm his tummy down for such, but you need to do what you feel is right. I hope your furbaby starts feeling better soon.

beef and chicken are the two biggest allergents and since allergies or ibd is suspected I would not recommend that but for a normal dog with no symptoms like this those are a good option just has to be extra lean beef