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-   Sick & Injured / Emergencies Talk (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/)
-   -   Daisy's in the hospital!!! I'm Heartbroken (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sick-injured-emergencies-talk/206551-daisys-hospital-im-heartbroken.html)

107barney 06-21-2010 05:49 PM
Also yes flagyl is used to treat Lyme.

dwerten 06-21-2010 06:07 PM
ok have the thread and read most of her comments but not all the comments so will read more on this but sounds like from scanning briefly dog was on high fat diet but will check out more later

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...-advice-6.html

her dog had fatty liver disease confirmed by biopsy

and usually dog with smaller livers are tied to liver shunt but I really think this was triggered by that medication as wasn't she fine before that?

ladyjane 06-21-2010 06:12 PM
The only way anyone would know if she was fine before that is if lab tests were done. She could have had elevated enzymes for a while. If there were any tests done recently, that would be helpful in determining cause.

I am sorry if it was from the medication because it is a good medication that I have given to many dogs. As a matter of fact, it is helpful with heartworm treatment (Wolbachia parasite), but that is another topic. Unfortunately, all medications can cause issues like this. :(

Daisy is in my prayers. I so hope she improves.

dwerten 06-21-2010 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 107barney (Post 3171420)
Also yes flagyl is used to treat Lyme.
so if flagyl is used to treat lyme why give an off label antibiotic for lyme ?

ladyjane 06-21-2010 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwerten (Post 3171457)
so if flagyl is used to treat lyme why give an off label antibiotic for lyme ?

Doxycycline is commonly used for Lyme's Disease. It is allso used in Heartworm treatment as I noted above.

Here is a link about the usage of it in HW treatment:

DogAware.com Articles: Heartworm Treatment in Dogs

Here is one of many links regarding its use in treatment of Lyme Disease:


Lyme Disease (Borreliosis) in Dogs

dwerten 06-21-2010 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 3171464)
Doxycycline is commonly used for Lyme's Disease. It is allso used in Heartworm treatment as I noted above.

Here is a link about the usage of it in HW treatment:

DogAware.com Articles: Heartworm Treatment in Dogs

Here is one of many links regarding its use in treatment of Lyme Disease:


Lyme Disease (Borreliosis) in Dogs
yeah yesterday i saw it was used alot for lyme but just curious why not metronidazole if it is not off label and can be used as well for this? I prefer to not use off label if you can use meds approved by fda as they have been tested for use in dogs and off label have not :(

I agree and curious if blood work was done prior to this and if it was normal

This is why it is so critical in dogs with liver issues you have to be EXTREMELY careful with medications as it can spin out of control quickly. I would rather the liver be affected though than kidneys as that is the better of the two evils I guess

I would think they did panels prior to this medication as they had to do infectious disease test to determine that daisy had lyme disease

ladyjane 06-21-2010 06:29 PM
I do yearly and even twice yearly blood tests on all of my pups so that I can pick up on something early. My father in law always said a "pound of prevention is worth a pound of cure"....don't know whose quote that was, but it is so true. Even then, sometimes things just happen. :( Blaming is a waste of energy in most cases...we just have to deal with things as they come. Knowing why does not change it. Not saying that we should never find out the whys....just saying the focus needs to be on fixing first rather than expend energy blaming when that energy is better focused elsewhere at that time.

dwerten 06-21-2010 06:36 PM
Joyce didn't you have blood work done to determine lyme disease prior to drug administered? I thought they do an infectious disease blood test to determine if lyme before treating for it?

ladyjane 06-21-2010 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwerten (Post 3171491)
Joyce didn't you have blood work done to determine lyme disease prior to drug administered? I thought they do an infectious disease blood test to determine if lyme before treating for it?

True....which is why they might be suspecting the medicine. Maybe all was wnl then. :(

dwerten 06-21-2010 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 3171480)
I do yearly and even twice yearly blood tests on all of my pups so that I can pick up on something early. My father in law always said a "pound of prevention is worth a pound of cure"....don't know whose quote that was, but it is so true. Even then, sometimes things just happen. :( Blaming is a waste of energy in most cases...we just have to deal with things as they come. Knowing why does not change it. Not saying that we should never find out the whys....just saying the focus needs to be on fixing first rather than expend energy blaming when that energy is better focused elsewhere at that time.
but if this was the fault of vet then she should not have to pay the bill or should have a discounted bill so knowing why is important for this as well as knowing for future use of any medications with Daisy once she gets through this situation.

Also others reading this that have dogs with liver disease need to re-think using this drug for lyme if it does damage the liver :(

I am not familiar with this drug but will be now because of Daisy. Sadly one dogs bad situation can help other dogs avoid this in future. I know every dog is different but so glad I know this now having an mvd dog.

dwerten 06-21-2010 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ladyjane (Post 3171500)
True....which is why they might be suspecting the medicine. Maybe all was wnl then. :(
yeah my guess is why they marked her file with this and her release papers - just heart breaking but like I said I have a good feeling it will be fine if she cleanses liver and provides liver support this will work itself out. Now had this damaged the kidneys that would be a whole other story :(

kalina82 06-21-2010 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwerten (Post 3171457)
so if flagyl is used to treat lyme why give an off label antibiotic for lyme ?
Doxy is the most common drug i know of that is used for Lyme disease in dogs and has been used for many many years to treat it. there are many human drugs used "off label" for dogs. did you know that viagra can be given to dogs with certain heart conditions? it helps dilate the veins so more blood can flow through the heart.

i'm guessing Daisy is 20ish lbs and was on 100mg of doxy twice a day right? that is the correct dose (5mg per lb) to treat lyme.

also to diagnose lyme disease they do a snap test. only a few drops of blood are needed. they are mixed with some blue stuff and poured into the test. wait 8-10 minutes and results show up as dots. here is what it looks like http://www.idexx.com/view/xhtml/en_u...its&SSOTOKEN=0 i didn't read the page, just saw it was from idexx and had a picture.

ladyjane 06-21-2010 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwerten (Post 3171504)
but if this was the fault of vet then she should not have to pay the bill or should have a discounted bill so knowing why is important for this as well as knowing for future use of any medications with Daisy once she gets through this situation.

Also others reading this that have dogs with liver disease need to re-think using this drug for lyme if it does damage the liver :(

I am not familiar with this drug but will be now because of Daisy. Sadly one dogs bad situation can help other dogs avoid this in future. I know every dog is different but so glad I know this now having an mvd dog.

OK....now here is something you need to think about. Are you going to use this one incident to say that no dog should ever be prescribed Doxycycline because one dog might have had a reaction? Or say that it causes liver problems? Because...you might as well say it about all medications. Doxycycline has been used for a long time. It is not like there are dogs all over the place having this same problem...and right now we don't even know for sure that is the problem.

ALL medicines have side effects and I can promise you that at least ONE dog has had a reaction to each medicine in use. You just don't always see them.

Things need to be weighed carefully.

I have no idea if the vet was at fault...I am having a hard time understanding that...but if the vet says so...well I suppose. I just totally don't understand a reaction to a vaccine being a precursor to possible reaction to one antibiotic. Again...maybe I am missing something. Who knows.

Bottom line right now is getting Daisy better...no matter the cause! I am quite sure that if the vet was that forthcoming about blaming the other vet that they will adjust her bill.

kalina82 06-21-2010 06:50 PM
oh and i'm still not sure what the lepto vaccine daisy was given has to do with not giving doxy. does anyone know how the vaccine is related to doxy?

ladyjane 06-21-2010 06:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalina82 (Post 3171529)
oh and i'm still not sure what the lepto vaccine daisy was given has to do with not giving doxy. does anyone know how the vaccine is related to doxy?

Nope...did an internet search and came up blank. I guess when I see my vet I will ask her. I am definitely curious.


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