Lucy

[Ellie May]

While anything is possible, it really does not sound like she is in any extreme or immediate danger right now. Just watch her close. Ruling out hypo is never a bad thing to do. My guess is just that you will have to go further and sooner rather than later.

I'm just remembering that you said she had some concerning symptoms in the house not long after eating beef. If she had just eaten, that probably wouldn't have been her sugar and it was not related to a walk. JMO. Of course if your vet wants to rule it out, then it absolutely should be...

[Ringo1]

I think you are exactly right. That is what my instinct tells me as well. I spoke with my neighbor, who had a Schnauzer with seizures, liver issues; kidney problems, you name it and that poor dog had it. We share the same vet.

She said he will absolutely refer us to OSU if he cannot diagnose or treat; he sent them there several times when he felt their dog was beyond what he could do. One time, he had them go the very next day.

She reminded me that Lucy is in good and competent and caring hands and that anyone who helped keep her dog alive for 16 years is surely no fool.

I needed to hear that tonight.

[BonBon]

It sounds to me like you really think a lot of your vet. To me this is so important - you need someone you have confidence in when your babies are sick. I know vets aren't perfect, but there are some great ones out there. You just may have found one. I'm praying your vet will find out what's going on and Lucy will be her old self again soon.

[Ringo1]

So. I ended up taking Lucy to the emergency clinic tonight because I carefully monitored her protein intake; did not walk her; and yet I walked into the dining room and she was standing there with her right hind leg sticking straight out. She then sank to the ground.

I picked her up and gave her the Karo syrup; which she enjoyed - hopped down and started playing.

Monday started to seem too far away.

The vet at the hospital diagnosed her with two luxating patellas. He easily made them slip out and back; and he said this is what is happening. Her knees slip in and out of place; she lays down and hence the quick recoveries. He did not think she had any neurological issues; but of course, we will keep our appointment with the regular vet.

She also has some retained baby teeth.

He strongly cautioned me not to breed her - of course, I never would anyway.

On the positive side - she now weighs 4.2 lbs - up from her last vet visit.

So, that's our update for now.

This little girl! She's going to give me a heart attack, I swear!

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by Ringo1

So. I ended up taking Lucy to the emergency clinic tonight because I carefully monitored her protein intake; did not walk her; and yet I walked into the dining room and she was standing there with her right hind leg sticking straight out. She then sank to the ground.

I picked her up and gave her the Karo syrup; which she enjoyed - hopped down and started playing.

Monday started to seem too far away.

The vet at the hospital diagnosed her with two luxating patellas. He easily made them slip out and back; and he said this is what is happening. Her knees slip in and out of place; she lays down and hence the quick recoveries. He did not think she had any neurological issues; but of course, we will keep our appointment with the regular vet.

She also has some retained baby teeth.

He strongly cautioned me not to breed her - of course, I never would anyway.

On the positive side - she now weighs 4.2 lbs - up from her last vet visit.

So, that's our update for now.

This little girl! She's going to give me a heart attack, I swear!

Wow imagine THAT! Poor little girl but at least momma is now feeling a little reassured.

[Ellie May]

That (imo) sounds like a good explanation and it could be a lot worse.
Did he give them a grade?

[Ringo1]

He didn't tell me if he did and I didn't know enought about LP to ask; just one of those things that I've never spent a lot of time researching. He was going to fax everything to my regular vet. When I came home and looked up the grades . . it sounds like a III. I'll let my regular vet tell me as well.

When I was walking out, he called my name and said be careful if anyone recommends immediate surgery. That he has knee problems and is a skier but he is not rushing into surgery until he has to. Something like that.

I was so relieved she wasn't going to keel over and die during the week-end that's pretty much all I could think about.

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by Ringo1

He didn't tell me if he did and I didn't know enought about LP to ask; just one of those things that I've never spent a lot of time researching. He was going to fax everything to my regular vet. When I came home and looked up the grades . . it sounds like a III. I'll let my regular vet tell me as well.

When I was walking out, he called my name and said be careful if anyone recommends immediate surgery. That he has knee problems and is a skier but he is not rushing into surgery until he has to. Something like that.

I was so relieved she wasn't going to keel over and die during the week-end that's pretty much all I could think about.

I am sorry you were so worried. I know what it is like to think the worst and I try not to do that. Most of the time, our worst fears are really not realized.

I am very happy that all is well. As for the vet's comments....many people do rush into surgery and these pups often do very well without it!

[BonBon]

I'm so glad you took her in and found an answer. Sometimes you just have to follow your own instincts and not let what others say blind you from that. I can't imagine how worried you've been through all this - it's so hard when they can't tell us what's wrong.

Sending hugs to sweet Lucy.

[Ringo1]

Yes, I was happy I took her in. And that vet was soo nice and funny. He put me at ease right away. He asked me to take off her pink harness and leash so 'all that pink' wouldn't spill off and get on him. We both recogized each other from somewhere; but we never did figure out where.

He said Lucy was so cute; one of the cutest yorkies he has seen - so of course, I loved that.

If you could have heard him giving me the lecture on breeding. About her liver problems; now the knees; and how if I did breed her; I'd end up back at the ER again with him trying to save her life. I promised him I never had plans for that. I felt like telling him . . I belong to YT . . I already KNOW the dangers of breeding!

[BonBon]

Originally Posted by Ringo1

Yes, I was happy I took her in. And that vet was soo nice and funny. He put me at ease right away. He asked me to take off her pink harness and leash so 'all that pink' wouldn't spill off and get on him. We both recogized each other from somewhere; but we never did figure out where.

He said Lucy was so cute; one of the cutest yorkies he has seen - so of course, I loved that.

If you could have heard him giving me the lecture on breeding. About her liver problems; now the knees; and how if I did breed her; I'd end up back at the ER again with him trying to save her life. I promised him I never had plans for that. I felt like telling him . . I belong to YT . . I already KNOW the dangers of breeding!

I think I like this vet!!

So many don't bother to discuss breeding, or caution against it to the owners. I think it's awesome he lectured you on that!

And, he has great taste. He knows a cute yorkie when he sees one.

[kjc]

Just checking back for an update ..... Glad Lucy's doing better...

[Ringo1]

Lucy is doing better. Her regular vet wasn't convinced that the knee problems would make her fall over . . so he kept her for the whole day on Monday. They did a glucose test - her blood sugars are fine. They exercised her and watched her walk; even ran her around the parking lot . . but she didn't fall down. The vet said that his Tech was a little winded . . . but Lucy appeared fine. Ha. He said the knees might make her sink to the ground . . but not fall over to her side like that one time.

He did a neurological exam; he does NOT think she has GME but is still not sure of the cause of those episodes.

She will eventually need surgery on the knees; but not right away. He feels she needs to be spayed and her retained baby teeth removed . . . then we will worry about the knees.

I am going to schedule her spay; I questioned him about the anesthesia protocol; the only thing he does not do if have a continuous ECG? Which I remember someone told me to ask about.

They will do more pre op blood testing when I schedule.

That's it. She has been fine with no further episodes with her legs.

Watch and wait.

Thanks for asking!

[Ellie May]

He may have a point there about the falling over. Sigh. This is tough. Still a bit concerned about the way she acted after getting protein. Hmmm.

So they just use a steth to monitor then? Do they do pulse oximetry or anything?

Did you find a food that she will eat yet?

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Ringo1

Something is wrong with Lucy. The first time it happened - last week - I thought I was being paranoid. Looking for symptoms . . due to her MVD. I had accidentally given her some of Ringo's canned beef instead of her canned Lamb; realized it too late; and then fretted about it.

Later that evening, she came into my room with a glazed look in her eyes and her back legs gave out - just for a second. I carried her downstairs and the minute I sat her down - she was bouncing around with a toy. So I thought I must have been imagining things.

Tonight, we were walking a trail and about halfway through; she stopped for a second and was shaking. I thought she was scared so I picked her up and carried her. When I put her down - she laid down on the trail for a second and could not get up. It was like her back legs didn't want to work. 2 seconds later - she was fine. Pulling and tugging at the leash to go. She walked the rest of the way home and is now out running the yard with Ringo.

I have a call into her vet. Any ideas? Have I gotten complacent and giving her too much protein? But it was at least 2 hours after she ate. She ate canned Wellness turkey on top of her Wellness dry food which is a fairly low protein food. Her last BAT was only mildly elevated - her vet said she was fine and just don't overload her protein. Oh, and I have been putting a little milk thistle on her dinner.

I'm worried sick and off to search threads and worry myself sicker.

Sorry I'm rambling.

I agree with your vet about it not being LP as dogs with LP lift their legs and hop like a bunny. My dd is LP 4 and she has gone on very long walks and never did what you described.

I keep going back to when you said she was glazed over and legs gave out in your bedroom that is not LP as LP dogs do not look glazed over and usually if it slips out they make a sound of pain when it is out of place and you never stated you heard her cry out in pain. Panting and shaking are a sign of pain though. I read everything when reading posts and this part did not sit well with me as it was not after a walk as I asked this and there was a glazed look which is an altered mental state not associated to LP. It could be due to 2 hrs after food but usually mvd dogs seize after food if it affects them. Liver dogs legs can go out prior to food due to hypoglycemia like this liver shunt dog below. He had a liver shunt repair done and is doing great now.

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I wish you had not walked her that is why I was saying not to so you could narrow this down sooner. You need to keep her on a strict protein of 18% as they can have neurological symptoms related to liver disease but I really doubt that to be her case as her bats are really low.

Neurological conditions do not always show up in blood work either but what I have been reading is wbc can be high in some cases of GME.

The only way to properly rule gme out is by a brain biopsy which will never happen unless doing necropsy after dog is deceased. So they do mri and spinal tap to see the fluids in the spine. The spinal tap is to check fluids and mri is to see what damage has been done to brain. There is no way he can say for 100% this is not the case without those tests. If she were mine I would not let her do walks, feed 18% and if she has another episode I would have her at a neurologist. I would NOT spay her at this time as if it is gme (autoimmune) any stress to the body could send her over the edge as well as vaccines. It is a tough call though as pyometra is also of concern since she is approaching the one year mark. I would not vaccinate as those can trigger gme as well. Something is not right and you need to let the body heal itself before putting any stress on her little body that could throw her off further. You need to be strict and narrow things down and see if another episode occurs. No treats just food only. No bully sticks nothing until you know what is triggering this behavior.

There are other neurological things in this breed like AAI, chiari, etc. It is not always GME. First liver is ruled out. I told you the episode with my friends maltese where ER vet sent her home with metacam as he said probably a disc issue so when ER vet said that