Roriee (AAI puppy) has had a major relapse!

[BaxtersMommy]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

There are several websites up asking for donations for this pup, there is nothing about vet costs. As a couple of people said; the vet that Randi too this poor pup to, has only seen the pup once. Surgery was recommended by the vet, Randi decided to go another route.

All the ranting in the world is doing nothing to help this poor dog, if the pup still exists; yes Randi's websites are asking for funds looked a bit questionable. No estimate for the surgery was ever provided.

Are there any sites still up? I just saw this thread today for the first time and got caught up. It has just left me feeling sick. Poor baby.

[manolos mom]

Originally Posted by shodanusmc

and who said not to give it to a Rescue. All that was asked by someone was why can't the dog go back to the owner. I do not believe that question was out of the ordinary or uncalled for. Why do dogs wind up in a rescue? Oh, and yes, I have been donating to a new Resuce that is just getting under way. You want references? If I was a dog, I would not want to go to you.

ATTTENTION!!! Now get down and give me 50! Didn't I tell you to STOP. Your offer was very generous. Now stop Bickering! Lissette

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by manolos mom

ATTTENTION!!! Now get down and give me 50! Didn't I tell you to STOP. Your offer was very generous. Now stop Bickering! Lissette

Thank You Lissette,

This is not about who doesn't get along with who, or who doesn't like someone's writing style or communication skills.

This is about a pup that maybe on death's edge.

[manolos mom]

You Bet.....

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Thank You Lissette,

This is not about who doesn't get along with who, or who doesn't like someone's writing style or communication skills.

This is about a pup that maybe on death's edge.

But it doesn't help when people will not read past threads...Questions keep coming up that have been answered many times. It becomes very frustrating when people just jump into a conversation without knowing the facts and making comments. It is also frustrating when people might have a valid question but do not understand the proper ways of doing this on a forum. Start another thread. It doesn't help when people act like donkeys.

[motomomma317]

I thought back to this post today while doing laundry and I asked myself.

Would the OP deny her own self medical care? If I remember correctly in one of her early post she mentioned having to go into the hospital for some form of treatment... Funny how she won't deny her own self care but she won't provide care for her dog and refuses to let anyone else provide the care needed.

I am a true believer in karma my dear.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

But it doesn't help when people will not read past threads...Questions keep coming up that have been answered many times. It becomes very frustrating when people just jump into a conversation without knowing the facts and making comments. It is also frustrating when people might have a valid question but do not understand the proper ways of doing this on a forum. Start another thread. It doesn't help when people act like donkeys.

Cindy,

I understand frustration is part of human nature. However, at this point non of this matters and if anything is to be accomplished, those differences need to be pushed aside. If we lose our cool we lose the battle.

As Lissette says the bickering needs to stop.

[brendah]

I sent a PM

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Randi is telling everyone that Roriee is ok now, but I suspect it is because she is afraid people are going to report her.

I was told that this pup needs surgery by the vet. I had called to offer to pay for a body cast IF it were recommended, but they told me surgery was and that there was never even an estimate written. She was there in December and she never returned. SO, if Randi decided upon the surgery, that would be the first step....a call to them and a written estimate. I would have spent up to $1,000 if a body cast would help.......I am not spending $4,000. I seriously think it is offensive that people interfered the way they did and wonder if THEY offered to pay...or if their only focus was to prevent rescue from helping. Or..they wanted to redefine rescue.

Randi, at one point, was considering surrendering her, but some people got to her and told her how mean people are for suggesting that; so now she is back to keeping her.

I am personally horrified to think that this pup is living in pain and have not been able to stop thinking about it for days.

The people who did this have done a great job here of making sure this pup did not get help. They turned the entire thing into a bash LJ for even daring to suggest rescue. I honestly dont care about that...I ONLY care that this has prevented this pup from getting proper care.

SO...I called Randi yesterday, but her phone does not allow blocked calls and I do not wish to give her my number. At this point, I am going to advise her to get a written estimate and THEN start asking for help from the orgs that I sent to her! She cannot ask for money without a written estimate! Then, if she would just email or PM me, I will help her out...and of course I EXPECT all of these other people to put their money where their mouths are and help out as well. Eight people putting up $500 each would do the trick and I see about seven who think that rescue is a bad option. What I am offering is on a personal level..NOT rescue. It is MY money. Can I really afford it? No...I have my OWN pups to care for and before I got them I made sure there was a fund for their care. But that is another story.

The only thing these people who have complained about how mean I am have accomplished is to harden me more. I will NEVER involve myself in anything like this again. I will turn my back, ignore it, and let the pup die. Why? Because I seriously have been sick over this one pup...and trust me there are SO many more like her that it is mind boggling. I do that now with shelters because I cannot save them all...I will also now do it with YT. Once I see a pup and keep talking about it and then know it is suffering, it is impossible for me to forget it. Offering rescue was saving Roriee. I am sick of people and their mouths...like I said, cough up some money and I will be right there with mine! THIS IS ABOUT RORIEE. I was told she DOES need surgery. I dont care what other stories are being told today about her miraculous recovery...that is because Randi is fearful that we are going to report her.

We cannot raise money on YT. Those of you who are doing Randi so many favors by telling her everything that is being posted...please DO share this with her. After she gets an estimate, then she can set up a fund at the vet. I will NOT send money directly to her or anyone else and would not expect anyone else to. My guess is it is her first offer of money and that is what she needs right now...not a bunch of forwarded messages about how mean other people are for trying to help. Please remember that this cannot turn into a fundraising thread! Use PM or email.

[brendah]

I finally talked to Randi this evening. She is setting up a appt for Roriee's Pre-op. She will be getting a account at the vet that we can donate to help (I hope I don't get in trouble for posting this information) She is calling right away in the morning and thinks she can get her in right away. I am not good with words on here, as most of us know but if anyone has questions for me please ask, I will try to explan what I know in better detail.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by manolos mom

Thanks so much Ann, can you find the video of Blue Boy or of someone elses dog that was Diagnosed with AAI? I cant remember the name but the video sticks in my mind. I think it may help her realize there is HOPE if she has the right people and medical treatment in place. Lots of People worried about this pup and its bringing out lot of emotion. Lissette

Here is a dog with AAI and many videos

YouTube - AAI DOG

wow i was out of town for 4 days came back to this thread just now - I posted alot of links to this issue on the AAI thread for yen. I can go pull that thread now and post it as there is alot of info for owners to be watching for as it runs in this breed and maltese breed so any neck pain get your dog to neurologist ASAP - basically eventually like KJC stated the dog will suffocate or have massive seizures and die - it is very serious. Sadly Yen did not have as much time to get her dog help as this little one has had

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...e-help-us.html

[kjc]

Originally Posted by kjc

Just for anyone not familiar with AAI:
I have been a Vet Tech for 20+ years (now retired) and have worked in all areas of veterinary medicine.

I just want everyone to know that even with all my experience, I would never, ever even attempt to provide homecare to a pup that is suffering with this condition, AAI/AAS, ETA: without frequent, regular veterinary supervision and examinations. Weekly rechecks are the norm for pups that are conservatively treated with casting/bracing.

This condition is a timebomb waiting to go off. One wrong move by the caregiver or the pup can result in immediate, irreversible death.

Years ago, pups born with this congenital defect were immediately PTS, as there was no hope for a cure. Now, in this day and age, with the advances made in veterinary medicine, there is hope for these pups to live normal, happy lives, provided they receive the necessary medical treatment, which involves repair of the connection between the head and the neck.

Without this surgeryETA: or conservative treatment involving
strictly supervised (by a vet) homecare, it is just a matter of time before the inevitable (reinjury) happens.

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

So, AAI would be considered a congenital (present at birth) rather than a genetic defect? Also, it seems that some cases can be managed without surgery, as I read from Sherryllynne's post. Just trying to educate myself about this. It seems like in all cases this is a nightmare condition.

AAI is congenital, but can be genetic or traumatic, genetic symptoms will appear within the first year, traumatic can appear at any age, from minor neck pain to total paralysis and death.

Conservative treatment with casts/braces may be tried in less severe cases, but many times reinjury may occur making surgery a better option.

I found this article from the ACVS (American College of Veterinary Surgeons)

ACVS - Atlantoaxial Instability


Here are some excerpts from the site:

Atlantoaxial instability is an uncommon condition of dogs in which there is abnormal movement or instability in the cervical spine or neck, between the atlas (first cervical vertebra) and axis (2nd vertebra). This instability allows abnormal bending between the two bones, which causes pressure or compression of the spinal cord. The severity of the injury to the spinal cord depends both on the amount of pressure, and the duration of the condition.
The atlantoaxial joint is normally stabilized by a projection off the axis called the dens, which fits into the atlas, as well as several fibrous attachments (ligaments) between the two bones. There are two causes for the instability – trauma and birth abnormalities. Traumatic instability occurs after forceful flexion of the head, causing either fracture of the dens or other part of the axis, and/or tearing of the fibrous attachments. This form of the instability can occur in any breed, at any age.

Certain birth defects can predispose this instability to occur with a very small amount of trauma (i.e. jumping off the couch, being jumped on by another dog). These abnormalities include a missing or malformed dens, or lack of normal attachments between the two vertebrae. An absent or smaller dens is the most common predisposing cause. This condition is seen mainly in small breed dogs, with Yorkshire terriers, Chihuahuas, Miniature or Toy Poodles, Pomeranians and Pekingese being the most frequently reported breeds. Dogs with congenital abnormalities usually show clinical signs at less than one year of age.

Conservative Treatment
Treatment for atlantoaxial instability can be conservative or surgical. Conservative management is more likely to be recommended when clinical signs are mild, or surgical treatment is not possible due to other medical conditions of the animal. Patients are managed with strict cage rest (4-6 weeks) and a neck brace for 6 weeks. Steroids and pain medications may also be used, and the patient will need to be protected indefinitely from trauma. Stability relies long term on the formation of scar tissue. Complete recoveries have been reported, even for dogs initially with severe signs, but dogs can also either remain unchanged or deteriorate. One study on 16 dogs demonstrated 10/16 having a good long-term outcome (10). Dogs were more likely to have a good outcome with conservative treatment, when the duration of their clinical signs was less then 30 days, at the time of treatment, while dogs with chronic signs (>30 days) were less likely to have a successful outcome without surgery. (10) With continued instability, there is a risk for suddenly luxating the spine, with acute paralysis and death. Potential complications include continued instability, inadequate stabilization by the brace, chronic spinal cord compression, and failure to heal fractures of the dens or body of the Axis. Problems such as bandage sores and eye ulcers related to the splint/neck brace are frequently seen. (1,2,9-11)
Surgical Treatment
Surgery is usually recommended over conservative treatment because of the possibility of recurrence and further spinal cord damage. Goals of surgery are to relieve pressure on the spinal cord, and permanently stabilize the joint. The pressure is usually relieved by reducing the vertebrae into a normal position, without requiring any other decompression methods. If the dens is malformed and is deviated towards the cord, occasionally this will need to be removed to relieve the compression. In the past, the joint has been stabilized with many different techniques. It can be stabilized from the top (dorsal) or from the bottom (ventral). Most surgeons will now use a ventral technique, as approaches from the dorsal side do not usually result in fusion of the two bones, and long-term stability relies on scar tissue and lasting strength of the implants.

[dwerten]

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...c-shunt-7.html

this all happened from a fall most likely - here is the original thread

it can happen from a fall, it can happen from a turn of a neck at groomer if they are predisposed it can happen at any time.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by dwerten

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...c-shunt-7.html

this all happened from a fall most likely - here is the original thread

it can happen from a fall, it can happen from a turn of a neck at groomer if they are predisposed it can happen at any time.

I am hoping that this dog is going to be in the care of a neurologist as i suggested back in november and not a regular vet so hoping the vet that was called was in fact a neurologist? This dog has mild mvd per the bats and my mvd dog has higher bats than this and went under for spay and dental so not sure why not a good candidate for surgery ? I know I referred her to talk to Vicki and she spoke to her over the phone back in november so maybe vicki can talk with her again so if someone needs vicki to be pm let me know and i can try to get in touch with her to talk to her again. I am just sad as i was gone for 4 days and thought there would be more info on how she is doing and hoping for the best for her as i have been since november

I just want to be sure a neurologist is handling this case as a regular vet should not be attempting to care for this dog or do surgery

sorry the transport with Jodi did not work out but i tried as i know jodi is real knowledgeable about health issues so i would trust my dog with her for sure in a transport but i guess this one is not a good candidate for that

[Woogie Man]

Thanks for the info and for clarifying, KJC. I had read the original thread from November and this is the first time I'd really acquainted myself with this condition, though I'd read older threads on this before.

So, from the info you posted, it would seem that surgery is the likely recommendation for Roriee due to duration? From the posts, it seemed like she initially got better but with the relapse (re-injury) I would suppose that healing would be a remote possibility now. Wouldn't it be like scar tissue trying to build onto scar tissue?

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Thanks for the info and for clarifying, KJC. I had read the original thread from November and this is the first time I'd really acquainted myself with this condition, though I'd read older threads on this before.

So, from the info you posted, it would seem that surgery is the likely recommendation for Roriee due to duration? From the posts, it seemed like she initially got better but with the relapse (re-injury) I would suppose that healing would be a remote possibility now. Wouldn't it be like scar tissue trying to build onto scar tissue?

blue boy had the surgery, baby bear had the surgery and bailey had the surgery all yorkies on here and all yorkies having a great life so I think the best option is the surgery as has been seen in these three dogs - all the info is on the thread from back in november and she has spoken to vicki who has been through this so she gave her all the info back then. The surgery and care is not cheap but more serious health issues in these breeds are not cheap as specialized vet care costs alot of money sadly but it is available now where as in the past like KJC posted these dogs were just put down.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/sic...c-shunt-7.html

check out the thread above as vicki, val and jaimie were helping on this thread back in november

I wonder if Ann can change that thread to be titled AAI so when people search about it this comes up just a thought as it has val and vicki on there with their info