Urinary Tract Infections

[dwerten]

i think back of wee wee pad or catching in pan could still be contaminated correct? Just much easier to when they first get up flip wee wee pad over let them go and you have a great sample as it has been sitting in their bladder all night and always best to have that first sample - I think it would be hard to get them to the vet first thing in am to get that urine sample before they pee.

also i put immediately in fridge until i leave for vets office to preserve same with stool samples

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by dwerten

i think back of wee wee pad or catching in pan could still be contaminated correct? Just much easier to when they first get up flip wee wee pad over let them go and you have a great sample as it has been sitting in their bladder all night and always best to have that first sample - I think it would be hard to get them to the vet first thing in am to get that urine sample before they pee.

also i put immediately in fridge until i leave for vets office to preserve same with stool samples

I honestly did not think you needed the first sample on them as in humans? Not sure...but I have never done that. Took it from any time of the day.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I honestly did not think you needed the first sample on them as in humans? Not sure...but I have never done that. Took it from any time of the day.

yeah as vet said best sample is first thing in am as it is sitting in bladder all night so collects the bacteria as sitting in bacteria so best sample to get like with us

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by dwerten

yeah as vet said best sample is first thing in am as it is sitting in bladder all night so collects the bacteria as sitting in bacteria so best sample to get like with us

If it were to be sterile, I don't see how that could be done perfectly. Makes sense, but telling a pup to hold it to take it to a vet? haha I guess so, but I would feel terrible.

[kjc]

My vet uses a long handled soup ladle for getting a free catch sample, works well.

And, yes, UTI's will run concurrently with untreated liver issues. If nothing is done to limit the ammonia-producing bacteria in the intestines, in time it ends up a problem in the bladder, bc the liver fails to clear the toxins completely.

Other indicators of liver issues are light or yellow colored stool, and strong smelling, dark urine.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by kjc

My vet uses a long handled soup ladle for getting a free catch sample, works well.

And, yes, UTI's will run concurrently with untreated liver issues. If nothing is done to limit the ammonia-producing bacteria in the intestines, in time it ends up a problem in the bladder, bc the liver fails to clear the toxins completely.

Other indicators of liver issues are light or yellow colored stool, and strong smelling, dark urine.

that is so wierd as dd has mvd and had only one uti when she was a puppy and she is almost 6 - i guess maybe in more severe mvd or liver shunt issues this is true. I know the vet when doing her bats said he wanted a urinalysis done to see if crystals in urine though

[ladyjane]

My vet recently purchased a gadget for collecting urine. It has a long handle and a cup on the bottom; so the person gathering the sample does not have to bend over. I just called to ask where they got it, but the gal who ordered it is not in today. I imagine you could actually make one of them.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

My vet recently purchased a gadget for collecting urine. It has a long handle and a cup on the bottom; so the person gathering the sample does not have to bend over. I just called to ask where they got it, but the gal who ordered it is not in today. I imagine you could actually make one of them.

yeah i think we should invent a strap on cup lollllll

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by dwerten

yeah i think we should invent a strap on cup lollllll

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by dwerten

i think back of wee wee pad or catching in pan could still be contaminated correct? Just much easier to when they first get up flip wee wee pad over let them go and you have a great sample as it has been sitting in their bladder all night and always best to have that first sample - I think it would be hard to get them to the vet first thing in am to get that urine sample before they pee.

also i put immediately in fridge until i leave for vets office to preserve same with stool samples

Both table top and free catch are contaminated. Free catch, less so.
For those who want to get it at home, free catch is really the best way in most cases. I always just go for the cysto. There is a slight risk with them though.

We never do first of the morning for u/a or culture here. Not that we couldn't. It has just never been requested by Ellie's vet.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by dwerten

that is so wierd as dd has mvd and had only one uti when she was a puppy and she is almost 6 - i guess maybe in more severe mvd or liver shunt issues this is true. I know the vet when doing her bats said he wanted a urinalysis done to see if crystals in urine though

I think on a regular diet there is too much protein and it overworks the liver.... when they get put on a low-protein diet, less toxins are produced thereby eliminating the cause of UTI.

Originally Posted by ladyjane

My vet recently purchased a gadget for collecting urine. It has a long handle and a cup on the bottom; so the person gathering the sample does not have to bend over. I just called to ask where they got it, but the gal who ordered it is not in today. I imagine you could actually make one of them.

Sounds like what we used to collect samples from race horses after the race. May want to try a tack store, or large animal vet supply....

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Both table top and free catch are contaminated. Free catch, less so.
For those who want to get it at home, free catch is really the best way in most cases. I always just go for the cysto. There is a slight risk with them though.

We never do first of the morning for u/a or culture here. Not that we couldn't. It has just never been requested by Ellie's vet.

yeah i have done them every year off back of wee wee pad for all 3 dogs and no issues - no way could i get a free catch on these little guys they are squatters lollll even dex he is a squatter unless we go out in public that is then he is a MAN loll

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by kjc

I think on a regular diet there is too much protein and it overworks the liver.... when they get put on a low-protein diet, less toxins are produced thereby eliminating the cause of UTI.



Sounds like what we used to collect samples from race horses after the race. May want to try a tack store, or large animal vet supply....

ok that makes more sense as dd is on 18% protein but for 3 years prior to hat no issues other than when she was a puppy she had one uti

[Ladymom]

Dry measure cups are great for catching urine samples. Since Lady is diabetic and prone to UTI's, I keep the strips at home so I can test her myself.

Amazon.com: Multistix 10 S G Reagent Strips for...

My vet will usually just prescribe a round of Baytril based upon my test, but sometimes tests it herself. We always do a sterile culture if it doesn't clear up right away. Most UTI's are caused by E-coli which can be very resistant to antibiotics. Sometimes you are dealing with several different strains at the same time. A culture will tell your vet exactly what antibiotics are needed.

[kjc]

Originally Posted by dwerten

ok that makes more sense as dd is on 18% protein but for 3 years prior to hat no issues other than when she was a puppy she had one uti

UTIs won't always accompany LS/MVD. It all depends on how much liver function each dog has, the protein content of the food they are fed, and the general health of their intestinal tract. Just as many with LS/MVD are asymptomatic all together.

DD may have only had one UTI as a puppy, bc as a puppy their livers haven't fully developed or grown to full size. As DD grew, the liver grew and must have been functioning well enough to handle the protein load, so no more UTIs.

The day I first got Tinkerbell in April 09, we arrived home and got right out of the car for a walk. Well, she peed, and the ammonia that wafted up liked to knock me out. So to the vet we went. After meds for UTI, a BAT and a limited protein diet, it wasn't till 8 months later that she developed a UTI again. So her liver filters out a lot of the toxins, but over time, what doesn't get filtered out builds up, so you have increased amounts of ammonia producing bacteria and other toxins floating around in their system. This keeps increasing, which eventually gets to a level of toxicity that causes UTI and goofy neuro behaviors called Hepatic Encephalopathy, which, if left untreated, results in seizures and death. The treatment for HE is to get the toxins out of the body ASAP, which can be acheived by hourly doses of Lactulose, until she has blow out diarrhea, which takes most of the bacteria in her gut with it, thereby immediately limiting the load on the liver, and another course of Antibiotics to also decrease the bacteria in the gut.

In summary: clean dog, feed dog till she acts crazy, medicate dog to have clean dog again. How frequently this cycle repeats is how well her liver is functioning. She now eats L/D, which is 14% protein, 20% pork/chicken fat. No meat treats... cereal, whipped cream,cottage cheese, hard boiled egg whites, people crackers etc.