Four year old Yorkie won't stop itching and licking
 

Hi everyone, I'm new (as of today) and I need some help for my four year old Yorkie Molly. For the first two years with us, Molly had absolutely no issues. She always had a gorgeous coat of hair, never itched and we never seemed to have any troubles. About two years ago she began "itching and licking" constantly. We took her to the vet and he told us it was allergies. He gave us the options and we ended up trying some type of steroids (I believe it was prednisolone or something like that). She seemed only a little better but we stayed with the treatment for a good two months to give it time to work. The only thing that came from that treatment was constant urination and (I suspect) the eventual formation of a small stone in her Bladder. She was then turned to Atopica but would randomly vomit up her food every other day so we had to stop using that. She then went to the food diet to rule out food allergies. Molly is a very picky eater and it all started around the time we had her spayed that she started refusing her dog food. She currently only eats things like special dog food to help with the Bladder stone and boiled chicken and rice. The allergies have gotten so bad that we avoid at all costs taking her out until we figure out the cause (since we have NO clue what this is).

I wash her in room temp to slightly colder water to avoid aggravating her skin. We have special allergy shampoo and leave on lotion from the vet that we try but it all seems to be in vain. I will attach a few pictures to show the extent of her discomfort. I'm at a loss for words and my only hope is that someone on here has gone through this and has some other course of action because the vet has all but let us down.

Her MAIN issues seem to be starting near her hind area working its way up her sides. She licks pretty much all of her hair off the front and back legs and she scratched a very good portion off of that side and rear area. She even has red marks from scratching under her front "armpits" so to speak. Any help would be amazing at this point. I'm going out tomorrow to pick up Marigolds because I was told boiling three Marigolds in one cup of water, letting it cool and applying it to her hot spots would ease her discomfort :confused:. No idea :(

Thanks for reading and sorry the post was a little lengthy and that there are links here instead of being embedded .. I'm still trying to figure my way around the site. Thanks again.

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Oh, your poor baby :(! Before going into some thoughts - has she had any bloodwork?

Has she had a skin scraping (and then looked at immed. under scope)?
Has her skin been cultured (grown out in culture for 10-14 days)?
Has she been put on Simplicef?
Has she seen a Vet Dermatologist yet?

This looks like pyoderma to me, first off...but I have more thoughts on this. I will probably post more tomorrow (sorry, I have some things I must get done yet tonight)...but knowing a few more things might be helpful.

well first off the vet did it backwards :( food elimination is first but 10% of the time it is food. I have gone through the same thing since my girl was 6 mos - allergies start from the time they are 6 mos to 3 years. If it is back half of dog then usually flea allergy so do you ever see fleas? My girl could not tolerate atopica either but were you giving it with a little food? I am going to pull a link i wrote a bunch of info for you to read

first off chicken is the worst protein you can feed for an allergy dog so i would first start with transitioning off a chicken food to natural balance venison and sweet potato - have you ever fed her venison? Was she spayed before or after this all started? What changed right before this all started if you think back?

Also whenever a dog has skin issues you always want a full thyroid panel done to rule out hypothyroid as it runs in this breed.

I notice you have her cut down short and i keep a longer coat as the coat protects the skin from pollen getting on it and i keep mine in a tshirt too to keep pollens from skin as double protection.

My friend lives in new jersey and she is having a time of it with her dog as well :(

Allergies are the worst as 90% of the time it is environmental and if so your only options are hyposensitization shots, atopica or steroids - you can minimize the itching with minimal ingredient diets and some supplements like coconut oil and probiotics help but it is tough if environmental. If it is winter there and she is still itching it can be either food related or mold allergy as there are no pollens there now or fleas.

What shampoo are you using as sometimes the chemicals in vet shampoos can aggravate them so i tend to go with a mild hypoallergenic shampoo instead.

I totally get your frustration as i have an allergy dog too and it is heart breaking :(

also you may want to get a dermatologist in your area as we see one and it helps as they are very good with skin and allergy issues and it saves in the long run and they tend to be more conservative in treatment with steroids and meds than a normal vet on this topic

just bumped the thread but here is the link so go down and start reading where i first posted and this should help some

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...y-what-do.html

in looking at those pics i would strongly recommend getting to a dermatologist as looks like some infection - I will check my dermatology books tonight to see if there is a pic of something like what she has but it looks very uncomfortable and i would get her on some steroids and antibiotics but a dermatologist will get on it fast.

A good shampoo that is mild for bacteria infections is duoxo chlorhexedine. My dd is super sensitive to vet shampoos and she tolerated this without a reaction and she reacted to malaseb, ketachlor, sebalux, etc so i think this is very mild and someone else on here uses benzoyl shampoo which is good but it is more drying and dry skin can make them itchy but the one she gets has moisturizers in it.

Poor thing well you came to the right place as you will get some great info on here - we will try to help you get her better to be comfortable is key

a great book about allergies i really learned alot from was allergy solution for dogs

The Allergy Solution for Dogs by Shawn Messonnier (2... - eBay (item 260553943983 end time Mar-17-10 12:22:19 PDT)

it is excellent in explaining all about allergies

here is another book i like as well

Dr. Goodpet – Pet Allergies: Remedies for an Epidemic

First of all, thank you ALL soo much for all of the responses soo quickly .. I really feel like I've come to the right place now .. as for the questions

the vet mentioned blood work after a few visits but he never mentioned it again and there was just soo much going on with the treatments that it slipped my mind to ever bring it back up .. he also seemed soo confident that it was food allergies that we just followed him soo blindy :(

no other tests have ever been done to be honest .. he's seen her more times than I can count and we ended up having a file about an inch thick from the visits .. we ended up switching vets because we felt he was only in it for the money .. our current vet has been making little progress but we've had two recent issues that have pushed back the allergy treatment hunt .. a few months ago she injured her eye and the WHOLE eye went milk white .. I nearly had a heart attack then and there .. the NEW vet that we still currently go to gave us such a strong line of treatments to return her eyesight that we've stayed with him ever since (needless to say her vision returned and he is completely why my baby can see [it ended up being traumatic glaucoma]) .. the second issue was this stone in her Bladder but the tiny drops of pee in her urine have been gone for weeks now that we've been giving her this special food with her actual food .. I may have to mention some of these tests to my new vet .. thank you soo much for the suggestions

thank you for the reply :) .. I have a LOT to read through in other threads to fully grasp what I'm up against but as far as the flea that was one of the first things I thought up and immediately put her on Frontline which she's BEEN taking .. we washed her bedding in very hot soapy water and we don't have ANY rugs in the house .. plus we've just recently moved within the last few months and the allergies symptoms have not gotten any better :confused:

we have tried the Natural Balance with her but she refuses to eat it .. she would rather starve than eat it :thumbdown .. I'm hoping to find some sort of miracle but I know miracles don't exist when it comes to something like this .. there could be soo many things bothering her that it just blows my mind .. we've cut down on her walking and she's washed every few days (as per the vet) .. also something I want to mention .. after a few days of not getting a bath and NOT going out she has an odor .. like a while back she used to get scabs that would heal but still sometimes she has a smell on her that always seems to be strange .. I've read on other sites that it would be something to do with her sweat glands .. I can't remember what they called it but it was something with the sweat glands that caused her to be itchy and actually let off a slight odor .. I'm trying to figure this out but there's just soo many variables that could effect this .. the only positive is that she has never lost her appetite .. she's playful .. has her toys all over the house .. LOVES her chew foods which keeps those teeth nice and pretty and she's just a lovable dog that will lick you to death if given the change .. it's only this allergy thing that makes me cry because I want her to have the best possible life .. I've owned a few other dogs before Molly and each time I get a new one I kick myself wondering why I do this to myself lol .. I get SOO attached and it's a heartbreak when something is wrong ..

thanks again for all of the replies .. any other suggestions would be amazing .. I'm going to read more into the answers and hopefully see the vet soon for SOME kind of testing .. thanks again, it means the world to Molly and I

Hi again...

Okay...don't take this the wrong way, but from they way it seems (perhaps) your vet is handling this, he may not have the necessary understanding of allergies. I suggest a Vet Dermatologist.

Right from the start, your kiddo should have had a skin scraping and a culture - both are simple, quick, and very diagnositic (and, can provide clues to relief!).

The fact that it seems the vet didn't even rule in/out whether this is a skin infection...is...not good. If this is staph intermedius (pyoderma) or fungal - it has to be treated. When skin/ear etc. infections are chronic/recurrent - there is something else going on, as skin is an elimination organ - so it's either 1) allergies or 2) secondary to a disease (hence, bloodwork needed).

If food was seriously suspected (only 10-15% of allergy cases), chicken should've been eliminated by the vet right away. Chicken and beef are known protein-source allergens. So, even if it is/was food allergy...the path taken by the vet didn't likely eliminate the right things for your baby.

A Vet Derm could likely figure this out very quickly. While it could be a food allergy, it really wasn't approached very well by your vet and I feel really bad for you and your kiddo - but try not to worry, I've been there too - and this is my vet derm's FAQ page, scroll down, click on "food allergies", for one, but there is all kinds of good stuff here (photos too): Dermatology for Animals

You have been given some great advise...The only other thing I will ask you is, what do you wash your floors with? I cannot use a number of different kinds of floor detergents as it made my girl break out and just sit and itch all day...

Once I started to use just a steamer her problems went away.

I still believe you should get a skin scrapping so you can figure this out.

Molly must be miserable. My Cali has bad allergies and we went through all the steps, food elimination, bloodwork, skin scrapings. Nothing definitive was found. I have her on California Natural lamb and rice and their health bars and Zukes salmon treats, nothing else. She has also been on Atopica for almost 2 years. The Atopica pretty much eliminated her scratching. When they first put her on it she became real sick, throwing up etc. so we stopped for a week and started her back up with a low dose of steroids. She was weaned off the steroids after 2 weeks and that worked great. I hope you can get her some relief soon.

I really don't have anything to add to what everyone has said as they have covered it all!

I DO think you should go to a vet dermatologist. Poor baby needs some relief and it sounds like that has not happened with either of your vets.

I have allergy pups and know how frustrating it is, but seriously they should not look as bad as the pictures you have provided. She must be miserable. :(

Good luck to you! ... and welcome to YT :)

so sorry that your little is going thru this. I am no help with this. When we got Hot Rod is was very itchy and flakey. His ears were so dry and flakey that big flakes of skin would just come off. At one point, our first vet suspected ringworm. :( We utlimately changed vets and she recommended a medicated shampoo and conditioner. I also switched foods. So far it's been under control since all of this.

Recently however I have noticed that he does tend to chew on his front paws after eating a lot of chicken. :(

Good luck in finding out what is wrong with your little and I hope that you can find a solution. :) You've gotten a lot of great advice.

save your money and get to a specialist as many times this saves you money in the long run

great website ann just snagged it for my allergy group :)

https://www.acvd.org/

there are 4 dermatologists in new jersey - I can ask my friend who she goes to there as well as she lives in new jersey

I prefer women as they seem more detail oriented

Kathleen Marie Kalaher, DVM, DACVD Phone: 732 922-0011
Garden State Veterinary Specialists
One Pine Street
Tinton Falls NJ, 07753 Hours:
Map Location

Ian Brett Spiegel Phone: 732 747-3636
Redbank Veterinary Hospital
Dermatology & Allergy Service
197 Hance Ave.
Tinton Falls NJ, 07724 Hours:
Map Location

Karen A. Helton-Rhodes, DVM, Dip.ACVD Phone: 973 831-2383
Riverdale Veterinary Dermatology
82 Newark Pompton Turnpike
Riverdale NJ, 07457 Hours:
Map Location njvetderm.com


thinking the one with the website - just emailed my friend

yep this is who i would go with - I like her bio

http://njvetderm.com/117.html

too funny i just ordered this book on ebay as heard it is great

Her most recent textbook is entitled The 5-Minute Veterinary Consult: Clinical Companion in Small Animal Dermatology, and is published in three languages.

ok here is my friends response

Best dermatologist in NJ is Dr. Ian Spiegel at Red Bank Animal Hospital. 732-747-3636. If she goes to him tell her to tell him I recommended her. He is GREAT and worth the trip wherever she is.

here name is Jayne

my gut is still steering me to the lady so i asked her if she knew this lady will respond back

she responded never heard of her - I know redbank is a great facility though -hmmm I just tend to deal more with women but My friend jayne is very picky she has 6 dogs and only goes to the best so i will let you make the call :)

First of all, I can honestly say that this website and everyone in it are completely amazing :D how much this forum cares to help just shocked me and it really makes me feel like I've come to the perfect place

as far as the Vet Derm is concerned we are already trying to gather Molly's medical history and paperwork to bring with us along with a complete history of medication so that we can figure this mess out .. we were looking at that vet in Riverdale since she is soo highly recommended by many people ..

here is my only question for now until we get an appointment with a derm vet .. if chicken and beef are very bad for Molly .. what food could we prepare that would not make her allergy worse and isn't dog food ?? she hates Natural Balance .. we've gotten her to eat Chef Michaels but that didn't last long .. before her spaying she used to eat Little Ceasars but due to the lamp shade she was fed ham :confused: and other food from the table because we didn't want her to starve .. would turkey lot dogs be okay ?? or any non read meat like turkey burgers ?? I'm at a loss for what to do because every other dog I've owned has eaten their food and my little "Princess" is soo fussy lol thank you ALL again for all of the great help and amazing love .. I printed everything so that I have more ammo to battle this and get my baby back to the way she used to be .. I appreciate everything from the bottom of my heart :D

Oh, you have been feeding her food that have a lot of corn in them also...and not the best food either..

You really should stick with dog food and try lamb or turkey

The Dog Food Project - How does your Dog Food Brand compare?

Other people will not recommend what I use, but I am offering it as a suggestion because I have had great success with it with two highly allergic pups. It is Nature's Recipe - Farmstand Select - My pups love it. The kibble has dried fruits and veggies in it and some of them love to pick those out. There is no wheat or corn in it which is something many of these pups are allergic to.

There are other foods that I am sure others will recommend. I am suggesting this because you said she is picky and I have yet to have a pup turn away from it. I foster a lot of pups and they all do well on this food.

One thing I will say is that you need to try your best not to give in to her picky ways. I put food down for 10 - 15 minutes and if they do not eat it, up it goes until the next meal. I feed 2x/day. I have not ever seen a pup starve to death...they finally give in. Might take a couple of days, but they do eat. Of course you should always monitor them so that they don't end up with hypoglycemia, but I have never had that happen.

Funny, we were typing at the same time! :)

Scary - typing at the same time...haha

I have had a lot of luck finally with Blue Diamond Organice dry and I use their turkey for wet.

I probably could feed a shelter with all the food I have tried...and the best, mine were not that crazy for...

I gave my baby girl turkey and she swelled up and became very constipated. I now make homemade venison and pumpkin. We are currently going through everything that you are. she has her second visit with the vet derm tonight.

We have done all the blood work and everything comes back good. We still have yet to run the environmental allergy test.

Is the vet in Riverdale a derm - I hope so, not to be a pest, but I just think a specialist will get you on track right away here. Skin issues are *tough* (as you can see) - I've been there too.

On the food - chicken and beef aren't bad, per se, it's just that these are so commonly fed, therefore, high on the allergen scale. At this point, you don't know she has a food allergy, however, assuming she has SOME kind of allergy - it is true that allergy dogs (in general) do better on low-allergen foods. This is because once the immune system is overstimulated, it becomes more vulnerable to *all* more higher-potential allergen ingredients.

So, I would also avoid turkey and lamb - bc if she has been fed mass-market kibbles, and you look at the ingredients, it's likely that both turkey and lamb have been in her foods.

What you're trying to find is a "novel" protein source that she has NOT yet eaten before in her LIFE - such as: venison, rabbit, kangaroo, buffalo, fish, etcetera. That she doesn't like Natural Balance is a bummer...though I'm not a big NB fan bc it contains flax :thumbdown, which I don't think is a good idea for allergy dogs.

Are you willing to cook for her? Has she had fish before? I don't normally do this bc I think homemade diets should be supported by a nutritionist, however, bc of the condition of your baby and if you're seeing a Derm shortly - I will share a fish recipe via PM that you can use temporarily, which I got from a nutritionist for my Marcel when he was having issues. It's considered hypoallergenic and has 1 protein, 1 carb source - which is what you're looking for (and veggie & basic supps.). Please let me know...

has she ever eaten cod? Venison, bison, ? what proteins has she eaten as to be a truly elimination diet you have to have a protein and a carb she has never eaten. We had tried so many that dd did an elimination diet of Pinto beans and potato for 12 weeks so if you are ok with home cooking then here is what i recommend. For 12 weeks and only feed NOTHING ELSE - one protein so after you tell me what she has had we can help with this and i like sweet potato better than white potato as ibd dogs can have allergies so has she ever had digestive issues?

Our dermatologist had us do pinto beans, white potato with safflower oil and a multi vitamin from whole foods for two weeks. I opted not to do multivitamin as due to allergies i wanted to be very basic and vitamins have fillers and 12 weeks is not going to kill them -- dd itched a little less but still itched so hers is environmental but she is on a limited ingredient diet as well

Best to use organic meats and vegetables as these dogs are small and pesticides and stuff can aggravate allergies as well

and if allergic to poultry then you want to avoid turkey, egg and duck which we were told by derm

the thing with allergy blood test is unless you are going to do hyposensitization shots with results may be a waste other than if you want to resolve your curiosity of what is in environment to remove but hard to remove dust, mold, pollen unless you move from area :( environmental is really tough no cure just keep them as comfortable as you can

i agree nb has the flax and i am always asking them to remove it and use something else and they are looking into it and i think they are coming out with a bison recipe soon they told me but the flax frustrates me :( I tried to pill dd with venison and the fish recipes and she was real itchy but on her blood work allergy test she is allergic to flaxseed even though i do not believe blood can determine food allergy it was there and i saw her go crazy BUT having said that not all dogs are allergic to flaxseed and most foods have flaxseed in it. Once you determine a good protein you may want to look into preference by thehonestkitchen.com and you can add the protein to that diet as that diet is good for allergies but only AFTER you do the elimination diet not now as you can add this in slowly see if itching starts and back out of it once you do the 12 weeks

I think she is looking for a food for now. I suggested what I use even though I know many people have many ideas about food. I usually hesitate because I quite honestly don\'t tihnk many would approve, but I have very healthy dogs and I believe in dog food! Cooking for pups is fine once you have educated yourself and know what you are doing ... But, many people honestly don\'t know enough about nutrition and end up shortchanging their pups imo. It is not a simple thing as you all know. ....I just don\'t think now is the time for her to get overwhelmed.

The food I suggested is quick and easy for her to get at Petsmart for now until she speaks with the dermatogist.

the info i posted is from our dermatologist and is a true elimination diet and i believe the food you posted has more ingredients than a novel protein and a novel carb - this is usually the first step after mite scrapings for skin issues as food allergy has to be eliminated first as well as flea allergy - this is the first thing the dermatologist usually does after ruling out mites but I would get to a dermatologist asap and start getting this little one better as sounds like vet did not have a clue about allergies and wasted alot of time and money not getting to the bottom of this sooner.