Has anyone taken their yorkie to uc davis vet??

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

It is similar to an xray, so my guess is that there is similar risk involved.
I've never heard of a problem with this.

What symptoms is your pup having?
If the BAT is over 100, it is probably time to do further testing, especially if this is a young dog.
They are up that high for a reason...

it is radioactive dye shot into butt and the dog has to stay all day to make sure the dye is out of the system before you can take them home. I would not put mine through this with no symptoms personally and those bats are slightly over 100 and the gall bladder could have contracted causing the bat to be off if only done one set of bats so to put a dog through this I personally would not but that is jmho and why i chose to not put my dog through it when the vet wanted me to with bats of 73 i said uh no i will go do my research and go from there. Now had dd had symptoms by all means i would have put her through it or if her bats were way over 100 then yes but i think they are too quick just like my vet was who is a phd from ucdavis to run and do this test and dd is just fine 3 years later still no symptoms and her bats went from 73 to 26 on low protein diet

[livingdustmops]

It is U C Davis that is suggesting the tests...or that is my impression. Personally I would listen to what they would have to say.

I understand your concerns but this would be her second visit to U C Davis...

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

It is U C Davis that is suggesting the tests...or that is my impression. Personally I would listen to what they would have to say.

I understand your concerns but this would be her second visit to U C Davis...

sounds like they are racking up a bunch of tests on a dog with no symptoms personally and ucdavis is not cheap they charge as much as private practice and since my vets best friends dog died there having liver shunt internal surgery on a boxer I have my doubts about them. No internal shunts are much harder to repair than external and usually in big dogs not little dogs and no i am not talking about mvd that is totally different. I just think sometimes they run wild with tests on dogs with no symptoms but i could be way off base and only saying what i would do and what i did with my dog when they started pressuring me to do this test but after educating myself further on liver shunt group as those people know there stuff i made my own decision. Now if the dog starts having symptoms and bats do not go below 100 on low protein diet then yes i would further test but with one bat slightly over 100 and they can mess test up if timing off or gall bladder contracts then i would hold off- this is why i had 3 separate bats done and first was 73 second 3/54 third 3/26 on low protein so just one bat and no symptoms i would not be putting my dog through that stress as that test is not as easy as an xray and if the dog does not stay still while taking pics which we all know yorkies won't they sedate them and take 100's of pics while the dye capsule is traveling through the body to see if it bypasses the liver - I personally would not want radioactive dye in my body when having no symptoms of a disease and yes i am aware some dogs do not have symptoms and have shunts and why if after low protein diet they are still testing over 100 then pursue but i still think it is too early to tell on this little one.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by dwerten

it is radioactive dye shot into butt and the dog has to stay all day to make sure the dye is out of the system before you can take them home. I would not put mine through this with no symptoms personally and those bats are slightly over 100 and the gall bladder could have contracted causing the bat to be off if only done one set of bats so to put a dog through this I personally would not but that is jmho and why i chose to not put my dog through it when the vet wanted me to with bats of 73 i said uh no i will go do my research and go from there. Now had dd had symptoms by all means i would have put her through it or if her bats were way over 100 then yes but i think they are too quick just like my vet was who is a phd from ucdavis to run and do this test and dd is just fine 3 years later still no symptoms and her bats went from 73 to 26 on low protein diet

...and I wouldn't want to put mine through it either, but if this vet is concerned, I can't say that the test shouldn't be done. If it were mine, I'd see the symptoms and talk to the specialists and figure out what I wanted to do. But the only advice I can give without being able to diagnose is to listen to the vet school....

Tp the OP: If this were my dog and there are NO symptoms, I'd consider a low protein diet. SAMe, and retesting in 30 days. However, if the vet felt very strongly that this needed to be done, I'd probably go with that.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

...and I wouldn't want to put mine through it either, but if this vet is concerned, I can't say that the test shouldn't be done. If it were mine, I'd see the symptoms and talk to the specialists and figure out what I wanted to do. But the only advice I can give without being able to diagnose is to listen to the vet school....

Tp the OP: If this were my dog and there are NO symptoms, I'd consider a low protein diet. SAMe, and retesting in 30 days. However, if the vet felt very strongly that this needed to be done, I'd probably go with that.

my vet felt strongly too as they are conditioned to test test test but after i did my homework i was like heck no way are you doing this as my dog has never had one symptom of this.

I think sometimes we have to follow our gut and what we feel is best too for our dogs. Educate ourselves and then make the best decision for them but i would not run wild on one bat as too many variables can throw it off

[livingdustmops]

This is my problem .... are you willing to accept you could be killing her dog with your advise? It is wonderful you did your homework and research but how do you know this person will. In one post you said if the BATS were over 100 you would test and then the very next post after she said they were 105 you wouldn't. You said you would try to control with eating for 6 months and someone else says 30 days. This is all very confusing.

Many people will take the advise that costs the least (I am not saying that is what is happening here) but I wish you would say this is just your opinion and you are not a vet. I do think you have a lot of experience with your dog but you immediately jumped onto her thread saying to controlling it with food before you even knew what the BAT scores were.

You could be 100% correct (I am not saying you are) but to much information is missing from the OP to make this determination so fast IMHO.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

This is my problem .... are you willing to accept you could be killing her dog with your advise? It is wonderful you did your homework and research but how do you know this person will. In one post you said if the BATS were over 100 you would test and then the very next post after she said they were 105 you wouldn't. You said you would try to control with eating for 6 months and someone else says 30 days. This is all very confusing.

Many people will take the advise that costs the least (I am not saying that is what is happening here) but I wish you would say this is just your opinion and you are not a vet. I do think you have a lot of experience with your dog but you immediately jumped onto her thread saying to controlling it with food before you even knew what the BAT scores were.

You could be 100% correct (I am not saying you are) but to much information is missing from the OP to make this determination so fast IMHO.

i feel very strongly on this and no her dog will not die if she waits and has him retested this is not a life threatening thing that has to be done ASAP it is something that can be done in a month or two. Now if this dog was having seizures or symptoms then yes by all means jump on it and have tests done further but this is not something to run into in a dog with no symptoms so i feel very comfortable with my recommendation here and I am not a vet so i will state that here but i have a dog with mvd and have done alot of research on this subject since my dog has liver issues. Even the specialist she saw at ucdavis stated he does not think this is a shunt so why rush this owner in to this test then why not do low protein wait 30 days and retest. When i say over 100 i mean way over not 5 over that is too close to 100 for me in a dog having no symptoms and that is the key NO SYMPTOMS and the post is normal so until we get all the accurate figures of ALT, PRE AND POST which hopefully will be posted I still feel this is not a rush rush decision

I had mine tested at 30 days and at 6 months

The owner is not concerned with cost she is concerned with radioactive dye which i was as well a 3lb dog with radioactive dye that is definitely something i would not rush into myself

i said to control with food as she posted her bats before on another thread and that is why i recommended it as i knew it was slightly over 100

I do agree we need exact numbers of ALT, pre and post biles for sure that is key but based on the 105 i am reading that is what my recommendation is and what i would do if this was my dog but ultimately that is all i can do is say what i would do if this was my dog but each owner needs to make that decision for themselves.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

This is my problem .... are you willing to accept you could be killing her dog with your advise? It is wonderful you did your homework and research but how do you know this person will. In one post you said if the BATS were over 100 you would test and then the very next post after she said they were 105 you wouldn't. You said you would try to control with eating for 6 months and someone else says 30 days. This is all very confusing.

Many people will take the advise that costs the least (I am not saying that is what is happening here) but I wish you would say this is just your opinion and you are not a vet. I do think you have a lot of experience with your dog but you immediately jumped onto her thread saying to controlling it with food before you even knew what the BAT scores were.

You could be 100% correct (I am not saying you are) but to much information is missing from the OP to make this determination so fast IMHO.

i also feel very strongly about NOT doing liver biopsies in dogs to determine MVD why put the dog through a large incision just to say YEP it is MVD when the blood work already tells you this yet i see so many dogs on here getting this done for what to say yes this is it and if you do not biopsy the exact part of the liver that has it then it will go undiagnosed anyway. If the bats are over 25 and under 100 then it is mvd you do not need to cut a huge incision in a dog and biopsy there liver to tell you this and there can be complications from this as well. Yet a specialist will pressure people into this and you will not treat that dog any differently than if they did not have the biopsy for mvd so this is horrible in my opinion for the dog

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by dwerten

my vet felt strongly too as they are conditioned to test test test but after i did my homework i was like heck no way are you doing this as my dog has never had one symptom of this.

I think sometimes we have to follow our gut and what we feel is best too for our dogs. Educate ourselves and then make the best decision for them but i would not run wild on one bat as too many variables can throw it off

And that's why I think people should always research for themselves, but thankfully when I'm confused or just can't come to a conclusion, Ellie has a vet that will explain things to me without pressure. Ellie's BAT was 106. We talked about scintigraphy. I was never told I needed to get it done. I also talked to the internist who never said it was necessary. They were unconcerned (for good reason) in this case...

Originally Posted by dwerten

i also feel very strongly about NOT doing liver biopsies in dogs to determine MVD why put the dog through a large incision just to say YEP it is MVD when the blood work already tells you this yet i see so many dogs on here getting this done for what to say yes this is it and if you do not biopsy the exact part of the liver that has it then it will go undiagnosed anyway. If the bats are over 25 and under 100 then it is mvd you do not need to cut a huge incision in a dog and biopsy there liver to tell you this and there can be complications from this as well. Yet a specialist will pressure people into this and you will not treat that dog any differently than if they did not have the biopsy for mvd so this is horrible in my opinion for the dog

I totally agree. Liver biopsies are overdone. But take MyFairLacy's Yorkie for instance. She had a biopsy and it was not MVD (as far as I remember). It was hepatic lipidosis. Her BAT was over 25, but under 100... I'm much more agreeable to the idea of bipsy if they are getting spayed since they are in there anyway. Just to go in and do a biopsy...I'd need some convincing personally.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

And that's why I think people should always research for themselves, but thankfully when I'm confused or just can't come to a conclusion, Ellie has a vet that will explain things to me without pressure. Ellie's BAT was 106. We talked about scintigraphy. I was never told I needed to get it done. I also talked to the internist who never said it was necessary. They were unconcerned (for good reason) in this case...



I totally agree. Liver biopsies are overdone. But take MyFairLacy's Yorkie for instance. She had a biopsy and it was not MVD (as far as I remember). It was hepatic lipidosis. Her BAT was over 25, but under 100... I'm much more agreeable to the idea of bipsy if they are getting spayed since they are in there anyway. Just to go in and do a biopsy...I'd need some convincing personally.

but with my fair lacy how was the dog treated after the biopsy? Was she treated with any meds? I just think if you are going to have a test done it is to treat the dog differently than if they did not have it done and biopsy for mvd they would not treat the dog any differently.

so yours is a prime example over 100 slightly and no shunt

i just do not like people to be stressing dogs out on tests that are not necessary to be done asap if they can avoid it and especially in a dog not having symptoms as i think vets many times are too quick to run a bunch of tests rather than giving other options as they make money on testing.

For example pharma companies are going around about lymphangiecstasia so now all these people are being diagnosed with this without the blood work to back it up even my vet mentioned about my dog and i said WHAT THE she has no low protein, low calcium or low cholesterol how do you figure she has this since she has diarrhea and it was clostridium not lymphangiecstasia and this guy has a PHD he is very sharp but i think they see a sick dog and go ok what else can we find wrong. Or they see blood work a little off and they run wild so i tend now to sit back and say ok take a breath here are your options.

Now if life threatening then of course you have to do what you have to do and why i opted when dex almost died of pancreatitis to do plasma transfusion as i was scared he would die.

[Ringo1]

I know my Vet recommends the scintography as well if BATS are over 100. Lucy's were 41 and then 35 on re-test so I did not have to have it done.

Had they been over 100 - he definitely would have recommended that and I probably would have followed his advice.

If you are hesitant, you could try lowering her protein intake a bit (there are lower protein foods out there though not necessarily advertised as such) and re-test in 30 days and THEN decide.

I wouldn't wait 6 months though I don't think but that's just me.

There are others who have had this test and their dogs seemed to do fine.

It is hard when there is so much conflicting information out there. Trust your gut and hopefully your Vet as well and make the best decision you can. That's all you can do. I hope your little one is ok.

Let us know!

[dwerten]

Structure and Function of the Liver in Dogs

my guess is my fair lacy's dog had other values off on blood work like glucose, triglycerides, and lipase that would lead them to this disease and probably symptoms as well so in that case further investigation by liver biopsy would be needed but not just a dog that has bats 25-100 and all other normal blood values and so many go right to liver biopsy on spay and that incision is HUGE and probably very painful for the dog and if they do not biopsy the right part of the liver and know what they are doing it is a total waste

[dwerten]

what is the protein count on food you are feeding now?

[dwerten]

just to give you an idea my friends dog had bats of 500 when her dog had a shunt and he had no symptoms either so 105 yeah I would redo bats before doing scintigraphy

[ladyjane]

This thread is exactly why I will never post one of my pup's symptoms on here. Everyone jumps up and starts acting like they are vets. I can do my OWN googling!

My advice to the OP is to Google...just like most of the people here do anyway...THEN after having done whatever research you can online, go to the vet and talk at length about what you have learned and what he/she thinks about treatment and diet. No one...and I mean NO ONE should diagnose your dog without a physical exam! There is more to it than reading labs and xrays.

I have said it before and am going to say it again.....

ANYONE who has not SEEN a dog and examined it and evaluated all of the lab tests has no business offering treatments...and that includes VETS. If a vet offered me advice online without physically examining my dog, I would run the other way.

Just my two cents once again.

I am so bothered by the people who come to YT looking for advice who are told NOT to listen to their vets. One day someone is going to lose their pup over this amateur vetting.

It is one thing to share your personal experiences...and yet another to prescribe ..and another to think that every pup has a cookie cutter diagnosis that is just like yours had.