Livi had to rushed to the vet just now...please keep her in your thoughts!

[Woogie Man]

It does seem like the same info, ver batim. This may have been where I saw it, but think it was from someplace else. You know how the internet is....sometimes the same exact info will be on many sites, word for word.

[yorkiegirl2]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

It does seem like the same info, ver batim. This may have been where I saw it, but think it was from someplace else. You know how the internet is....sometimes the same exact info will be on many sites, word for word.

Maybe, I don't know about everyone else but I have tons of info about breeding and different things from here and the net.
Those may not have the sites or the authors who wrote them.
Most of us are guilty of posting things that came from some where else.
Whelping receipts, weight calendars, whelping supplies lists, breeding issues, health info, …etc.

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2

Maybe, I don't know about everyone else but I have tons of info about breeding and different things from here and the net.
Those may not have the sites or the authors who wrote them.
Most of us are guilty of posting things that came from some where else.
Whelping receipts, weight calendars, whelping supplies lists, breeding issues, health info, …etc.

Posting whelping receipts and supply lists, is completely different from posting an entire article written by someone else. You're now talking plagiarism if someone tries passing it off as their own, or copyright infringement if it's copied without the owners permission.

I guess, the safest way to post this sort of information would be by providing a link to the site?

[Sweetlips6]

Please, I hate sticking my nose in, but lets all stop this issue before it becomes one.
Lets just support Tammy and Livi and her pups. Tammy does not need to be reading all this other stuff now.

Tammy, my heart is sick with worry for you and your babies. I wish I could help and offer advice, but I have no advise to give you. But just know I am thinking and sending well wishes and prayers for you and your family.

[mimimomo]

So glad to hear that the babies are gaining! You're doing great Tammy, so is Livi! I remember Mimi's pups had days when they didn't gain anything, but never lost any weight. I really feel very optimistic, will keep sending positive thoughts & prayers your way!

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

It does seem like the same info, ver batim. This may have been where I saw it, but think it was from someplace else. You know how the internet is....sometimes the same exact info will be on many sites, word for word.

I originally posted the link to the site a few months back, after I was faced with hand raising a litterl. However, I posed the question of tube feeding to my repro vet and he was in total agreement with not tube feeding, if you could get away with it. Too risky, per his words, he's witnessed the most experienced breeders tube feeding and losing a pup because of a slip up. I know my mentor is a pro at tube feeding and highly advocates it. But, she's been breeding for over 40 years.

[Breezeaway]

I did not say I wrote it, it was only posted for information. Why must you make a debate about everything someone posts. I am coming to the conclusion that YT is just not for me. I will ask admin to remove it and all my posts.

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by Sweetlips6

Please, I hate sticking my nose in, but lets all stop this issue before it becomes one.
Lets just support Tammy and Livi and her pups. Tammy does not need to be reading all this other stuff now.

Tammy, my heart is sick with worry for you and your babies. I wish I could help and offer advice, but I have no advise to give you. But just know I am thinking and sending well wishes and prayers for you and your family.

Thank you.

I signed on to let you guys know that Livi's milk came in, but only briefly...the puppies were only latched on for a couple of minutes and I checked, the milk was gone. I am beyond tired...eye dropping every two hours, but the feedings last 45 minutes (longer sometimes)...so by the time I finish, I barely get anytime before I have to start all over. I was thrilled to see that Livi had some milk, but have no idea why it didn't last. Advice/suggestions??

[Woogie Man]

Her milk won't come in all at once but should increase over time. Just makes sure she eats and drinks plenty. If she's being picky, liver is really good for them and if she isn't drinking much water, let her have some goat's milk. Ice cream, boiled chicken, canned food and yogurt can sometimes get their appetite going. Don't expect an immediate turnaround but things should get better.

Hang in there...you're doing great!!

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Her milk won't come in all at once but should increase over time. Just makes sure she eats and drinks plenty. If she's being picky, liver is really good for them and if she isn't drinking much water, let her have some goat's milk. Ice cream, boiled chicken, canned food and yogurt can sometimes get their appetite going. Don't expect an immediate turnaround but things should get better.

Hang in there...you're doing great!!

Thank you for the encouragement...I need it! I am still having to syringe food to Livi (except for ice cream and the boiled chicken, obviously ). I wasn't giving her enough last week and it was our vet on Saturday that told me that she should be eating one can of dog food in one sitting. So, this is what I have done....I started adding goats milk to the Science Diet A/D can food instead of water. And no, we do not normally feed our guys Science Diet, but it was the one can food that our vet said that does well when you need to add water to syringe. She has been getting plenty of can food, plus goats milk, little ice cream and boiled chicken. I was having to also syringe water to her, but today she started drinking it on her own...and quite a bit each time...YAY!!! She has put on some weight which is nice because she lost a lot just in the very short time that she was sick last week.

Since her milk seems to be trying to come in but didn't last, should I remove her from the puppies and take her back in a little while? I only ask this because they are constantly latched on, even without the milk.

My days/evenings are now consumed with feeding the puppies and Livi....

Thanks!!
Tammy

[yorkiegirl2]

Tammy I would leave the pups with her.
The more they nurse the more milk she will produce.
Just keep an eye on the pups tummies, as long as they are plump looking they are getting plenty.

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2

Tammy I would leave the pups with her.
The more they nurse the more milk she will produce.
Just keep an eye on the pups tummies, as long as they are plump looking they are getting plenty.

They are already plump from me feeding them all day. Should I let Livi keep nursing them, even though I can't see any milk when I check her teat (although, all of them had plenty of milk but for only a couple of minutes). Should I go ahead and do their next eye dropper feeding or leave them with Livi? I am so scared of them starting to fade again. I *think* we have that under control, but ONLY because the vet intevened twice with sub-q fluids.

[Woogie Man]

I think it would be good to give her time to replenish away from the pups. After all, if they're not getting anything, they're just using up energy for no real benefit. Since you're feeding them anyway, there's no harm done.

BTW, if they're sucking well, you may be able to use some sort of bottle for feeding them now. It may be a little quicker for you. The dropper is slow and works very well for weak puppies but, with the size of your babies, a bottle may be a better choice if they're vigorous enough for that. Just make sure to burp them and they need diapering if Livi isn't there. You maybe could bring a pup to her for that but keep her away from the litter so they don't mug the milk bar.

I know you're totally caught up in just coping, but I posted earlier today about transitioning the pups over to nursing as Livi's milk comes in.

Jim

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

I think it would be good to give her time to replenish away from the pups. After all, if they're not getting anything, they're just using up energy for no real benefit. Since you're feeding them anyway, there's no harm done.

BTW, if they're sucking well, you may be able to use some sort of bottle for feeding them now. It may be a little quicker for you. The dropper is slow and works very well for weak puppies but, with the size of your babies, a bottle may be a better choice if they're vigorous enough for that. Just make sure to burp them and they need diapering if Livi isn't there. You maybe could bring a pup to her for that but keep her away from the litter so they don't mug the milk bar.

I know you're totally caught up in just coping, but I posted earlier today about transitioning the pups over to nursing as Livi's milk comes in.

Jim

Thanks Jim! Yes, I saw what you wrote earlier and was actually thinking about that post during the last feeding that I did. I was wondering when I might be able to do that and then I let Livi into the room (she typically stays while I feed, but for some reason, she was getting too worked up so she had to go see daddy). Anyway, after they ate I had her come in to clean them and the babies went CRAZY NUTTY....like fast little ants all over the place...frantic to get latched on. So, I checked and that is when she had all of her milk (for two minutes). I was soooooooo relieved that I started bawling, but then it stopped and I felt sick.

Hopefully, things will continue in a positive direction with her milk. So you think I should go ahead and do a dropper feeding?

[Woogie Man]

Ooops...I didn't see your last post since I was busy typing. It sounds like Livi is making more milk than I thought. My earlier advice was made thinking her milk was scant. Maybe giving her time to replenish would be good anyway, considering all she and the pups have been through, but it sounds like she may be ready to turn the corner and take on her Mommy duties.

It's in a pup's nature to stay pretty much on the teat early on and you'll have that with any litter. My caution would be based on all that has happened with her so far.