Livi had to rushed to the vet just now...please keep her in your thoughts!

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by TammyJM

When the puppies are sleeping, should I keep Livi out of there...so that there is some sort of relief from the nursing? I think I will wait and just keep weighing them...I would go ahead and feed them, but they are SOOOOO full looking right now.

What would you do?

Being that Livi has been throuh alot, and pups usually will continue to suckle for comfort, I'd let her out if she wants. Remember, keeping her healthy is the best way to keep your pups healthy. So, you don't want to put her under any stress, if she doesn't want to be away from them. You kind of have to play things by ear. It's a tough balancing act, monitoring the situation hour by hour....

Are you taking these pups temps, every day or so? They usually can't retain their own body temp until 3 or 4 weeks of age.

[Micah my love]

Tammy i have 2 girls nurseing one of them looks like she has no milk but her 4 wk old pup is fat as can be

the other has 5 - 5wk babies she has lots of milk

so glad Livi & the babies are doing good

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

Tammy, your update on the pups is very good news. It's great that Livi has some milk, too. She may well start producing if the pups suckle and you can get her to eat well and get enough fluids. Remember that it doesn't have to be water...Moms love the goats milk, too.

It sounds like right now you are giving the babies most of their nutrition. If they continue to get stronger and Livi produces milk, you can slip into supplement mode and slowly let her take over. You'll know you're reaching that point when the babies are feeling more full when you go to feed them and they won't be as receptive to the formula as they prefer Mom's milk. Go ahead and get something in them at this time, maybe not a full amount, just to be sure.

I did this with a very small girl my Pearl had in November. I hand fed her for 5 weeks as she was just too small to nurse or eat. The last week was a transition period. I went very slowly and offered her food (goat milk formula) at her scheduled times. She let me know if she didn't want it. I gradually let her go longer in between my feeding her, always checking her vigor and weight. She is now 9+ weeks old and a whopping 19 ounces and just full of pi$$ and vinegar.

I know you can do this. It is beyond exhausting but necessary and the rewards of seeing the little ones thrive are immense.

Here's my little darlin'. I'm completely in love with her and I think she sees me as her 'other Mom'.

Jim~

I don't think that I ever responded to this....I apologize. I have to say, your Pearl is one of the cutest puppies that I have even seen!!! I can see why you are so love with her...she is a DOLL!!!

Thanks for sharing her adorable picture!

Tammy

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Being that Livi has been throuh alot, and pups usually will continue to suckle for comfort, I'd let her out if she wants. Remember, keeping her healthy is the best way to keep your pups healthy. So, you don't want to put her under any stress, if she doesn't want to be away from them. You kind of have to play things by ear. It's a tough balancing act, monitoring the situation hour by hour....

Are you taking these pups temps, every day or so? They usually can't retain their own body temp until 3 or 4 weeks of age.

I haven't taken their temp but I did know this about their body temp. I am always stressing about keeping the room where they are warm, but then I worry that Livi is hot...*sigh*. WORRY, WORRY, WORRY and then worry some more.

[Woogie Man]

Tammy, it's only natural to worry. I worry with everything going well, not to mention dealing with issues such as you have. I would just pretty much echo what Mary has said. To look at those babies, one would think that they had no problems whatsoever but only a couple of days ago they were all getting fluids at the vet's. That's how it can be at this stage...they can drop off fast but can also bounce back quickly with care.

My guess, from your posts, is that you've turned a corner with Livi and the babies. With all that's happened, though, you want to keep a tight eye on weights and overall vigor in the pups, as well as Livi's condition. Sort of like going from an intervention to a monitoring mode.

Ideally, you'd like to be in a situation where Livi spends most of her time with the pups, with short breaks for now, just as with a typical (if there is such a thing) litter. If you feel it best to give her a longer break, just make sure the pups don't get chilled. It does sound like you have weathered the worst, though, so long as Livi eats well and keeps producing.

Thanks for the compliment on my little one. I posted her pic to remind you there's light at the end of the tunnel and that the long hours of worry and hard work are so worth it.

Keep up the good work. Just think...somewhere down the road there's a full night's sleep with your name on it .

[Doodlebug]

Tammy, I am just seeing this. OMG what a scare! You did such an awesome job with these babies. Livi and the puppies are gorgeous! Hugs to you. ~ Jean

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by TammyJM

I haven't taken their temp but I did know this about their body temp. I am always stressing about keeping the room where they are warm, but then I worry that Livi is hot...*sigh*. WORRY, WORRY, WORRY and then worry some more.

Tammy, I keep the room at the same as the rest of the house 68. But have a heating pad under half of the bed and a towel pinned over the top of that half. that way Mom can still get to the puppies but get away from the heat. I also provide her own bed next to theirs so she can get away from them if she wants to.

I do not stress the puppies by taking temps, Their little den is nice and toasty and as long as they are gaining and not crying, they are fine. I just weigh them every day.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by TammyJM

When the puppies are sleeping, should I keep Livi out of there...so that there is some sort of relief from the nursing? I think I will wait and just keep weighing them...I would go ahead and feed them, but they are SOOOOO full looking right now.

What would you do?

If they are gaining, I would not stress them out by feeding them or taking temps. I would weigh them and leave them alone.

You've done a good job, now sit back and let Livi do it.

[Sookie]

When I was worried about Kalina having milk I took her to the Vet. He tried to express some milk into a teeny syringe and could honestly only get out about a drop or two. But he still said she was fine and had milk and, obviously, he was right. When the puppies nurse the sucking and pushing stimulate the milk. As long as they have round bellies and are gaining, they are probably ok. If you have any doubts, give them some milk by dropper. Sounds like they are doing well. I'm so happy for you.

[TammyJM]

Thank you all again for the support and advice that you have offered!! I started giving the dropper with more time in between yesterday and I was able to again today. I still have to dropper feed, but not nearly as often as I was (every two hours). Today, has been nice....I have fed them a couple of times and when Livi is nursing them, I make sure that each one gets a turn on one of the two teats that we know for sure has milk. Even if they are getting some from the others I just feel better doing this so that I am postive they are eating. They have continued to gain some weight today and when they are not eating, they are peacefully sleeping (typically on their backs). I am still mindful of everything and I will be worried for quite a few more weeks but for now, I am thankful for how things are looking.

Thanks again!
Tammy

jan.2,2010-10 days old-2.jpg

[JeanieK]

OMGoodness, what fat little bellies. I would say they are doing terrific. Good Job.

How are the skin kids doing? Are they feeling better? Make sure you get some rest, or you will be getting sick too.

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

OMGoodness, what fat little bellies. I would say they are doing terrific. Good Job.

How are the skin kids doing? Are they feeling better? Make sure you get some rest, or you will be getting sick too.

Thanks Jeanie!!! It has NOT been easy, but that's okay...it wasn't Livi's decision to be bred so this was my responsibility to make better. Yes, the vet made a mistake and started this spiral, but ultimately, there wouldn't have been any mistake to fix if I hadn't bred Livi. So, I had to make it better because it did all fall back on me.

Thank you for asking about my kiddos! Emma had to stay home again today because of her fever. I am hoping that they get past this quickly!

[Teresamag]

Hi Tammy,
It looks like you did a wonderful job taking care of Livi and her puppies. I know it was hectic and scary but you did a great job. I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to read the posts this weekend, I had no idea it got as bad as it did. I wish you had called or emailed me. I'm only 80 miles from you and I did PM you to give you all my contact information, I would have been glad to have helped.
I use the goat's milk formula to supplement puppies and give to mommas to increase their milk supply too, it works wonders. One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is using Reglan (metroclopramide). This is a drug used in humans to decrease nausea but it has been studied for several years for it's ability to increase milk production in people (I'm a nurse and I worked in an OB unit for 9+ years). Several years ago I had my vet write me a prescription for it for a girl that would not produce much milk. We gave her 5 mg twice a day and it's a miracle drug. In the last 5-6 years I've used Reglan for a couple of girls and it works every time.
You might want to ask your vet's opinion. My vet didn't believe me until after I showed him the human studies and after we used it. He now suggests it sometimes.
Anyway, good luck with your babies. Please don't hesitate to contact me for any questions or help.
Teresa

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by Teresamag

Hi Tammy,
It looks like you did a wonderful job taking care of Livi and her puppies. I know it was hectic and scary but you did a great job. I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to read the posts this weekend, I had no idea it got as bad as it did. I wish you had called or emailed me. I'm only 80 miles from you and I did PM you to give you all my contact information, I would have been glad to have helped.
I use the goat's milk formula to supplement puppies and give to mommas to increase their milk supply too, it works wonders. One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is using Reglan (metroclopramide). This is a drug used in humans to decrease nausea but it has been studied for several years for it's ability to increase milk production in people (I'm a nurse and I worked in an OB unit for 9+ years). Several years ago I had my vet write me a prescription for it for a girl that would not produce much milk. We gave her 5 mg twice a day and it's a miracle drug. In the last 5-6 years I've used Reglan for a couple of girls and it works every time.
You might want to ask your vet's opinion. My vet didn't believe me until after I showed him the human studies and after we used it. He now suggests it sometimes.
Anyway, good luck with your babies. Please don't hesitate to contact me for any questions or help.
Teresa

Thank you Teresa! I did send you a private message back, but never got the chance to call. I now have a new found perspective when I hear that someone has hand raised a litter of puppies. If a person has never done it, they cannot even imagine what it means when you say, "I haven't gotten any sleep" or "I haven't had time to do anything but feed the puppies!". I was one that, since I hadn't physically raised a puppy like this, I couldn't possibly grasp the time that goes into it. Boy do I know now!!! Feeding with an eye dropper every two hours (my guys do not like the bottle).....literally takes all morning, all afternoon and all evening!! Also, I have been feeding Livi, too...because she stopped eating so she had to eat by a syringe. I am still scared to sleep at night or to even nap when my kiddos do. I am hoping that I am able to relax a little bit more with each passing day. I didn't know that a person could go this long without sleep...I am learning all sorts of new things about myself.

Thanks again for your VERY kind offer to help!

[bjh]

Tammy, your babies are looking really good. You are doing a great job caring for the babies and Levi.