My 11 week old puppy has a liver shunt :(

[ladyjane]

Phew...what a story!
Robin, you and your husband are wonderful people to do what you are doing for your little darling Ginger! She is just precious! She sure did pick a rough way to get back to you!
I will keep all of you in my thoughts and prayers.

[Robin Lodal]

Originally Posted by dwerten

lol Go Ginger way to get your way gf love it 4 is a good number i think that way you each can walk two on a coupler lolllll

Ok Debbie, seriously think about what you just said... can you imagine walking a 75lb black lab with a yorkie on the same coupler? I guess its possible? lol hahahaha

I have already thought about ordering her a harness and seeing if Cindy can alter my coupler and make it a tripler (haha)? I don't know if its possible but its worth a shot... But I have a good while before she will be going on walks.

[mypreciouspups]

Omg, from the first post to the last I am simply amazed at how well this baby is doing.. and ever so happy to see this last video of her doing so well..
Your amazing and although Gracie did not have liver shunt.. tube feeding and doing subq fluid to keep her alive was such a dreadful worry each day.. but we did it.. and sounds like you doing well...
Have you ever had an issue like this before.. I was so glad to see you go and get this baby and get her the help she needed...

Sending prayers for this to keep going well... and she gets on track for what ever needs to be done... hugs.. anne

[TOY]

Robin........

I know with all you are doing it is ridiculous for me to hope for an update whenever I have a chance to check but I want to know how little Ginger made it last night.

I bet she was sooooo excited to be home again!

I hope your routine is going smoothly and that you are being able to rest in-between feedings.

Thinking of you and your household,
TOY

[TLC]

Originally Posted by Robin Lodal

Yes, I plan on doing 6 meals, every 4 hours. If she refuses to eat the kibble, I will syringe feed the slurry of Hill's LD and water (15ml).

This may sound anal, but I THINK she needs about 3oz... which is exactly 100 pieces of kibble. So if that is divided into 6 feedings, she will need to be 16-17 pieces of kibble during each feeding.

What I may do is put down 17 pieces of kibble and if she has not eaten it by the 4 hour mark, I will sit down with her and try to encourage her. When it is eaten, I will go ahead and put down 17 more pieces so that she can either nibble on it over the next 4 hours or just eat the rest of it at the next 4 hour mark (does that make sense?).

It may sound tedious, but I don't mind. It will give me a better idea on how much she really is eating. If she wants more, I will add 1-2 kibbles, like you suggested. Thanks.



Oh honey, I never wanted to give her up in the first place! She has been my favorite all along. DH and I had a heart to heart a month or so ago and he really encouraged me to "let her go". DH became a K9 officer in June (which means we also got a new black lab - Dozer!) and so my hopes of keeping a puppy was taken away.... BUT praise the Lord that Ginger is a little drama queen and she was willing to do whatever it took to come home to momma! hahah (that's what I told DH hehe) Thank you so much for all the advice and encouragement.

Another thing. I don't want everyone to think that Max and Molly was NOT tested. They were last year (before I got them). It had not been a full year since their tests that I bred them so I didn't feel as though it was needed again (maybe I was wrong?). Both of the BATs were normal last year. I wonder if they could've changed much over the year? I will be having them tested again in the next few months just to make sure.

The research that Dr. Tobias has is fascinating. I read that she took 2 dogs that had liver shunts, repaired them, bred them and they produced 2 healthy pups. I sure hope they are able to find a genetic marker in her research study to help prevent liver shunts from ever happening in the future.

And don't worry, we are totally keeping her! DH even agrees this time even though now we will have 4 dogs and 2 cats! lol

IDK - 100 kibble may sound like a bit too much There is a formula for how many oz of protein a day per body weight, but I just don't know it.

The key is not to stress her liver by having to work on a lot of food (protein) all at once. Plus "if" she eats to much protein and her liver stresses and the toxins start to build up she could display HE symptoms, and associate this all back to eating and she may not want to eat. It is a horrible cycle.

Start out slow. You can also add a few kibbles if you find her being hungry.

Apple bits (no skin) and watermelon are good to add during the day too!

[Robin Lodal]

Originally Posted by mypreciouspups

Omg, from the first post to the last I am simply amazed at how well this baby is doing.. and ever so happy to see this last video of her doing so well..
Your amazing and although Gracie did not have liver shunt.. tube feeding and doing subq fluid to keep her alive was such a dreadful worry each day.. but we did it.. and sounds like you doing well...
Have you ever had an issue like this before.. I was so glad to see you go and get this baby and get her the help she needed...

Sending prayers for this to keep going well... and she gets on track for what ever needs to be done... hugs.. anne

Anytime we have health issues with our babies, its a worry. I am glad Gracie did not have a shunt. I am so thankful I don't have to tube feed and give subq fluids daily. I think that would be harder than what I am doing now.

I have never had an issue like this before. So I am pretty confused. I am having parents retested soon, just in case.

Originally Posted by TLC

IDK - 100 kibble may sound like a bit too much There is a formula for how many oz of protein a day per body weight, but I just don't know it.

The key is not to stress her liver by having to work on a lot of food (protein) all at once. Plus "if" she eats to much protein and her liver stresses and the toxins start to build up she could display HE symptoms, and associate this all back to eating and she may not want to eat. It is a horrible cycle.

Start out slow. You can also add a few kibbles if you find her being hungry.

Apple bits (no skin) and watermelon are good to add during the day too!

Hmm... well she hasn't eaten anymore kibble since yesterday so I have resulted to syringe feeding her the slurry again. I have even put a little bit of carrot baby food on the kibble to entice her, but nope! She refuses. I am going to run to the store today and get some baby sweet potatoes and see if she prefers that. It would be a LOT easier on me if she would start eating this dry (even if it was just a couple of times a day!).

The little booger has quite a bit of energy right now so she does put a fight when syringe feeding. I do not want to stress her out so it does take awhile (while trying to get it over as soon as possible!).

I have some freeze dried banana and apple bites (they are from the toddler section - no protein), she will not eat those (as treats). I got out the Cheerios but never actually got to the point to offer her one. I figured these would be ok in moderation.

Originally Posted by TOY

Robin........

I know with all you are doing it is ridiculous for me to hope for an update whenever I have a chance to check but I want to know how little Ginger made it last night.

I bet she was sooooo excited to be home again!

I hope your routine is going smoothly and that you are being able to rest in-between feedings.

Thinking of you and your household,
TOY

Oh Debbie, you are so funny. I will try to update as soon as I can. I can't promise to be on EVERY day (even though it looks like I will be since I will be home much more now). If it makes you feel better, if she something BAD happens, I will just call you, ok?

Ginger is fitting in just well in the house! She has got to the the cutest little puppy (sorry to everyone else! hehe). Nick is just smitten by her b/c she is so affectionate with him (where Max and Molly are more affectionate with me than him) and so he likes that extra attention. Any tixme that he is giving Ginger attenion, Max and Molly are all over him like hound dogs! lol Jealousy! And there is just something that is so attractive with a man is all "ga ga" over a puppy (or baby).

Last night Ginger slept with us (I am thinking this will happen every night - it makes things easier in feeding). She instantly cuddled with Nick (and in return, he melted). So I am the bad guy, who does the waking up, syringe feeding, meds, etc and he is the good guy who is the cuddler! But she did not move a bit through the night. Such a sound sleeper and no potty accidents. I woke up exhausted this morning. I just don't feel as though you get quality sleep when you are getting up every 4 hours. I think once I am doing this for a week or so, my body may become more accustomed to it (lets hope so... I don't want to be a Crabby Patty!).

[TOY]

Woo Hoo! It's football in our house right now but I slipped away to check on Ginger. I'm so glad to see your update and how good she is doing!

I totally agree with a man and a puppy. It is such a sweet picture. Taffy is just beside herself whenever her "Daddy" doesn't pay attention to her. It's quite comical! She even whimpers after him when he goes outside to get the paper or mail.

No guarantee here but I'd almost bet that before Nick lets you get too crabby, he'll send you off for a much-needed nap...LOL...at least that's how it works around here! I think Frank has realized what I need is not beauty sleep (he's given up on that...LOL) but temperment sleep to the point that now he even "encourages" me to go take a nap...LOL

Oh well, being together 24/7 in retirement does alter the dynamics of a marriage just a teeny bit!

OK...back to football...our team doesn't even play until 3 today but we are busy "scouting" next week's opponent...LOL. Guess I humor him a bit too, huh?

Sending get well wishes, rest periods, and kibble eating scenarios your way...

[TLC]

I use fresh fiji apples. Roxy loves them. She also loves the stalks from romaine lettuce, which is good bc is has Vit K in it. Banana is no good, too much potasium

Have you tried to soak the kibble in water for a while? Or baking little balls of L/D to see if she will eat on her own? You can mashed up the soaked kibble and bake little balls too.

[weeloves06]

I have one thing to say BLESS YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND FOR BEING THE BEST BREEDER ON THIS PLANET. It is so awesome how you handled this situation and getting that precious baby back home. My congrats to you for the many rewards Ginger will bring you in your lifetime.

[Robin Lodal]

Originally Posted by TLC

I use fresh fiji apples. Roxy loves them. She also loves the stalks from romaine lettuce, which is good bc is has Vit K in it. Banana is no good, too much potasium

Have you tried to soak the kibble in water for a while? Or baking little balls of L/D to see if she will eat on her own? You can mashed up the soaked kibble and bake little balls too.

I have not tried baking yet. What is it about baking that makes it more appealing? Today she did eat around 6 pieces of kibble (throughout the day with LOTS of encouragment). I soaked the food until it was pretty soft and offerred it to her. I mashed it up and I had to put a bit of carrot baby food on it but that did not appeal to her much. I then dabbed a ITTY BITTY bit of yogurt (I am aware of the protein - so it was almost nonexistent) on it and that did entice her a bit to eat but not much (b/c its was just a tiny bit). I will try the baking tonight or tomorrow though.

I am kind of concerned though b/c the amount that the dr told me she should be eating, she hasn't been (even with the syringe feeding). I was told to take one can of LD and 2 cups water and blend it well. Syringe feed her 15-20ml every 3-4 hours (I have been doing 20ml every 4 hours - unless she eats a few kibbles (rarely) and then I do 15ml). They said this recipe would last me 2 days (she needs to be getting just a little under a 1/2 can a day)... well I made this batch (my one and only) on Thursday evening, so it should have only lasted me until Saturday evening and its already Sunday and I have more than half of it left. I have weighed her every day and she has just maintained (no gain/loss). Should I contact the dr and tell her I think either hers or one of the student's measurements were off?

[Chance]

I've read your story on Liver shunt and MVD support, I am glad Ginger is back with
you now. My Chance had a liver shunt repaired at U.T in March, they are wonderful
there.

[Lolasmom1211]

Robin, My Lola had LS surgery in March at UT. I still have to hand feed her 3-4 times a day to get her to eat anything at all. I have to put the Hills LD in the food processor with about 1 cup of water - I don't measure...I just make it the consistancy of baby food. I then have to take about 2 heaping teaspoons and heat it in the microwave until it is warm and then feed her off the end of my finger. This is really all that she will eat and I have tried everything else on the list. She will not eat the kibble either...maybe 2-3 pieces / day. When I do feed her, I have to really coax her to eat, she does not eat willingly and there can be no distractions or she will stop! The one can of Hills will last about 4 days - no way could she eat it in 2! Lola has steadily gained a little weight, but very, very slowly. She was about 3.5 lbs when I took her to TN, lost some during the surgery, but is now a little under 4 lbs but seems to be very healthy. She has only been to the vet once since her LS surgery and that was for a rash she had gotten in the yard. I know part of her problem is she is just spoiled, but we had such a rocky beginning with her - and I, like you, had to get up throughout the night to feed her. I know it's exhausting and frustrating at times when they don't eat....this works for us. I hope it helps - God bless you and Baby Ginger. Give her a sweet kiss on her baby nose from us! ~~~ Valerie, "Lola & Harley"

[jp4m2]

Robin, I just read through this whole thread and it just gave me goose bumps when I saw the video of Ginger running and playing ......It's hard to imagine this little one was about to be given up on......You are an angel for getting to her and giving her the help she needed....Please keep the updates coming it is just awesome to see Ginger thriving!

[TOY]

Just a quick drop-by to check on Ginger and Mommy...

Update when you can. I hope you're resting a bit yourself and that Miss Ginger is either eating, playing or taking a nap but feeling much better.

[TLC]

Originally Posted by Robin Lodal

I have not tried baking yet. What is it about baking that makes it more appealing? Today she did eat around 6 pieces of kibble (throughout the day with LOTS of encouragment). I soaked the food until it was pretty soft and offerred it to her. I mashed it up and I had to put a bit of carrot baby food on it but that did not appeal to her much. I then dabbed a ITTY BITTY bit of yogurt (I am aware of the protein - so it was almost nonexistent) on it and that did entice her a bit to eat but not much (b/c its was just a tiny bit). I will try the baking tonight or tomorrow though.

I am kind of concerned though b/c the amount that the dr told me she should be eating, she hasn't been (even with the syringe feeding). I was told to take one can of LD and 2 cups water and blend it well. Syringe feed her 15-20ml every 3-4 hours (I have been doing 20ml every 4 hours - unless she eats a few kibbles (rarely) and then I do 15ml). They said this recipe would last me 2 days (she needs to be getting just a little under a 1/2 can a day)... well I made this batch (my one and only) on Thursday evening, so it should have only lasted me until Saturday evening and its already Sunday and I have more than half of it left. I have weighed her every day and she has just maintained (no gain/loss). Should I contact the dr and tell her I think either hers or one of the student's measurements were off?

These little buggers can just be stubborn at times when it comes to food. Mine are almost 5 yrs old, and they like certain foods, a certain way - bizarre I know...Like sweet potatoes. They will NOT eat them mashed or boiled, however, if I bake them like fries - they go nuts for them

So baking the L/D or mashed up RC kibble *may* just be enough of an enticment to eat

You can also get some goat cheese, and lightly coat some of the RC kibble, that may entice her to eat too