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Old 09-01-2009, 08:46 PM   #1
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Default im confused it could be liver shunt.

ok I had a wonderful day today. my little girl got sick puking up clear maybe yellowish stuff. i started to give her angel eyes for tear stains and two days after she puked and then was fine for a bit then started puking again. and had a little puking episode last night. so i decided im not going to give her angel eyes anymore because it is messing with her tummy. so this morning my boyfriend got up let the dogs out she was fine brought her back in and put her back in bed with me. about 20 min latter i woke up and realized something was wrong with her. she wasn't moving and when i tried to move her she stayed in a ball it looked really weird so i freaked out i didn't think it was hypoglycemia because she has been eating or dehydration because she has been drinking. so i took her to the vet she did have low blood sugar so gave her an iv and fixed that but they took blood work. and her bile acid level came back high like 50.3 Her ALT was normal her ALP was high a 148 and a few other things were low. vet was really concerned about the high bile acid test and now im freaking out. I been reading on a few things about angel eyes and someone on her said they gave it to three of her dogs and then they had blood work done and all three dogs bile acid tests came back high she took them off and 12 weeks later had the test done and they were fine im hoping it was the angel eyes. she never been sick since i gave it to her. never puked up anything. im giving her some milk thistle but what should i look for with a dog that has liver shunt do they act funny in any way i really don't know much about it. She is a Maltese and i also read somewhere that Malteses bile acid tests are usually higher than other breeds. Im hoping she is ok i feed evo and its very high in protein and she never has a problem after she eats . so i don't know what to think the vet really freaked me out and gave me a number for a specialist and everything. sorry that was long just freaking out had a bad day.
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Old 09-01-2009, 08:56 PM   #2
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ok I had a wonderful day today. my little girl got sick puking up clear maybe yellowish stuff. i started to give her angel eyes for tear stains and two days after she puked and then was fine for a bit then started puking again. and had a little puking episode last night. so i decided im not going to give her angel eyes anymore because it is messing with her tummy. so this morning my boyfriend got up let the dogs out she was fine brought her back in and put her back in bed with me. about 20 min latter i woke up and realized something was wrong with her. she wasn't moving and when i tried to move her she stayed in a ball it looked really weird so i freaked out i didn't think it was hypoglycemia because she has been eating or dehydration because she has been drinking. so i took her to the vet she did have low blood sugar so gave her an iv and fixed that but they took blood work. and her bile acid level came back high like 50.3 Her ALT was normal her ALP was high a 148 and a few other things were low. vet was really concerned about the high bile acid test and now im freaking out. I been reading on a few things about angel eyes and someone on her said they gave it to three of her dogs and then they had blood work done and all three dogs bile acid tests came back high she took them off and 12 weeks later had the test done and they were fine im hoping it was the angel eyes. she never been sick since i gave it to her. never puked up anything. im giving her some milk thistle but what should i look for with a dog that has liver shunt do they act funny in any way i really don't know much about it. She is a Maltese and i also read somewhere that Malteses bile acid tests are usually higher than other breeds. Im hoping she is ok i feed evo and its very high in protein and she never has a problem after she eats . so i don't know what to think the vet really freaked me out and gave me a number for a specialist and everything. sorry that was long just freaking out had a bad day.
it is probably mvd and the angel eyes could be a coincidence but i do not like angel eyes as it has an antibiotic in it. You need to lower the protein to 22% or 18% though since episode - how old is your baby? I have a maltese and am on spoiledmaltese.com as well. There is controversy over bile acids in maltese though as many say they are naturally high and some say not true so it is a toss up. Below 100 is not a shunt so i do not think you need to worry about that. What i would do if it were my dog as my dog has mvd and perfectly fine is go to a 22% protein food and retest in 6 months if you want if you see any signs if not just keep the protein down. You do not need to supplement with milk thistle if you get the protein down. High protein is not good for toy breeds. Do not use angel eyes anymore but the tylan powder in angel eyes actually helps for stomach upset as that is an anti-inflammatory and antibiotic in one. How long have you been feeding evo? I think that is really high in fat if i am not mistaken? so my concern would be pancreatitis in what you are describing -- how was the amylase and lipase and triglycerides on the tests the vet did and was wbc high?
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Old 09-01-2009, 08:58 PM   #3
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also vets are not real up on liver shunt and mvd -- if you want to know a ton on this go and join this group as they are very knowledgeable - I learned a ton from them as my vet scared me too and once i learned more I realized it was not the concerning so i hope i eased your mind a bit so you can sleep tonight

Liver_Shunt_And_MVD_Support@yahoogroups.com
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Old 09-03-2009, 07:05 PM   #4
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How do I join that group? Just send an email?
My 5 and a half year old Yorkie was just diagnosed with Portosystemic Shunt. Her BA was just 90 but I have had an ultrasound done and it is clear as day.
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Old 09-03-2009, 09:23 PM   #5
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How do I join that group? Just send an email?
My 5 and a half year old Yorkie was just diagnosed with Portosystemic Shunt. Her BA was just 90 but I have had an ultrasound done and it is clear as day.
you just go to yahoogroups.com and do a search for liver shunt and then it will come up with another group dog liver disease as well and click on join now -- wow with only post biles of 90 there is a shunt ?? make sure if you do surgery to only go to dr tobias as she is the best at university of tennessee and the most cost effective as most will charge alot more even with counting travel in the equation. Is your dog having symptoms? Did you do protein c test or the scintigraphy as ultrasounds are not as accurate
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Old 09-05-2009, 10:27 PM   #6
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thank you so much i was frantic and hardly remember what i said on this post glade it made some sense and someone replied lol. She puked again yesterday only once so i pumped her up with some honey and incited her to eat and she didn't get sick like she did last time but she acted funny for the rest of the day but today she is 100% better. Its like she has episodes of hypoglycemia but she eats. She doesn't seem sick or anything after she eats. i have been feeding evo for about a month now and all my other dogs are doing great off it. she was doing good too she gained some weight she is a puppy and she is building some nice muscle tone. i know evo is high in protein i think ill start looking for something else again just looking for the best food i can for them. anyone have suggestions orijen dog food has the same level of protien right? but in her blood work
her protien level was a 5.2- low
Alp was 148- high
phos was 7.4- high
calc was 9.7-low
K was 3.71- low
LIP was 63-low
osmolality was 301.9- high
globulin was 2.1-low
Her WBC was 11.4 normal and everything else was good and normal. she just has these episodes where she will puke up ether clear stuff or her food and then go what seems to be hypoglycemic shock if i don't give her honey and make her eat . but then the next day she is fine and will go for a long time being fine. she has had like 4 episodes of this. what is MVD? i seen it somewhere but didn't read about it because i was so worried about liver shunt. thanks so much for your knowledge and help. i stooped with the angel eyes but she still had a episode yesterday not as bad but something funny is going on. trying to figure it out and get her the help she needs.
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Old 09-05-2009, 10:27 PM   #7
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she is 6 months old
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Old 09-05-2009, 10:35 PM   #8
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I found this on pancreatitis.

"Multiple factors can contribute to the development of pancreatitis. Certain medications, infections; metabolic disorders including hyperlipidemia (high amounts of lipid in the blood) and hypercalcemia (high amounts of calcium in the blood); obesity; and trauma and shock can be associated with the development of pancreatitis. Middle-aged dogs appear to be at increased risk of developing pancreatitis; as a breed, Schnauzers and Yorkshire terriers appear to be more prone to pancreatitis. Nutrition also plays a role. Dogs with diets high in fat, dogs who have recently gotten in to the trash or have been fed table scraps, or dogs who 'steal' or are fed greasy 'people food' seem to have a higher incidence of the disease. In addition, dogs who have previously had pancreatitis or abdominal surgery appear to be more at risk."

Her LIP is low and her Calcium is LOW so that cant be it can it?
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Old 09-06-2009, 06:18 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by inabowbina View Post
thank you so much i was frantic and hardly remember what i said on this post glade it made some sense and someone replied lol. She puked again yesterday only once so i pumped her up with some honey and incited her to eat and she didn't get sick like she did last time but she acted funny for the rest of the day but today she is 100% better. Its like she has episodes of hypoglycemia but she eats. She doesn't seem sick or anything after she eats. i have been feeding evo for about a month now and all my other dogs are doing great off it. she was doing good too she gained some weight she is a puppy and she is building some nice muscle tone. i know evo is high in protein i think ill start looking for something else again just looking for the best food i can for them. anyone have suggestions orijen dog food has the same level of protien right? but in her blood work
her protien level was a 5.2- low
Alp was 148- high
phos was 7.4- high
calc was 9.7-low
K was 3.71- low
LIP was 63-low
osmolality was 301.9- high
globulin was 2.1-low
Her WBC was 11.4 normal and everything else was good and normal. she just has these episodes where she will puke up ether clear stuff or her food and then go what seems to be hypoglycemic shock if i don't give her honey and make her eat . but then the next day she is fine and will go for a long time being fine. she has had like 4 episodes of this. what is MVD? i seen it somewhere but didn't read about it because i was so worried about liver shunt. thanks so much for your knowledge and help. i stooped with the angel eyes but she still had a episode yesterday not as bad but something funny is going on. trying to figure it out and get her the help she needs.
I think the evo is your culprit as another dog had fatty deposits on our maltese group with that food as it is high in fat and protein-- get her on a protein at 22% and see how she does. You did do the pre and post bile acids correct? Once you lower the protein see how she is doing and i believe you said she is a maltese correct? if so join spoiledmaltese.com as there is a vet and a vet tech that are very knowledgeable about this that help alot on there so you can get some additional info. Did you join the two liver shunt groups to get some more info?
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Old 09-06-2009, 06:25 AM   #10
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I found this on pancreatitis.

"Multiple factors can contribute to the development of pancreatitis. Certain medications, infections; metabolic disorders including hyperlipidemia (high amounts of lipid in the blood) and hypercalcemia (high amounts of calcium in the blood); obesity; and trauma and shock can be associated with the development of pancreatitis. Middle-aged dogs appear to be at increased risk of developing pancreatitis; as a breed, Schnauzers and Yorkshire terriers appear to be more prone to pancreatitis. Nutrition also plays a role. Dogs with diets high in fat, dogs who have recently gotten in to the trash or have been fed table scraps, or dogs who 'steal' or are fed greasy 'people food' seem to have a higher incidence of the disease. In addition, dogs who have previously had pancreatitis or abdominal surgery appear to be more at risk."

Her LIP is low and her Calcium is LOW so that cant be it can it?
no her lipase would be high usually, amylase would be high, her triglycerides would be high, and white blood cell count would be high - what is the protein count and fat content percentage on the evo as I think both are too high for a toy breed especially if having probs. High protein foods are good for very active dogs and many toy breeds cannot tolerate them and yorkies especially should not be on high fat foods - my dog almost died of pancreatitis so i know alot about that one. There is a specific test for that and it is spec cpli but i think due to 6 mos old your dog is fitting in the liver shunt category with those symptoms and hypoglycemia is common in liver shunt dogs. Get the protein down to 22% and if still having episodes i would get down to 18% protein -fish diets are best as fish is easily digestible so maybe look for a good fish diet like natural balance fish and sweet potato - since a puppy i am skiddish about saying natural balance vegetarian -- have you done protein c test for liver shunt as that could be your next step if you already did pre and post bile acids and when they draw blood have them do spec cpli test also and make sure vet has inhouse spec cpli otherwise it will take 3-4 days to come back from he lab
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:52 PM   #11
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thanks i appreciate your help will do that stuff.
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Old 09-11-2009, 05:29 PM   #12
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Here is the other form on here that someone was talking about angel eyes giving their dogs a high bile acid test. I PM her but have not had a response yet. hope she will let me know how the retests went. very curious.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/yor...ar-stains.html
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Old 09-11-2009, 05:33 PM   #13
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GreenwoodBiewer wrote it its the 12th response down on the form.
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