Sneezing Fits! - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

kjc · 05-16-2009, 05:13 PM

Any update? Maybe to the vet for xrays, or better yet an endoscopy? If it is a foreign object the body will coat it with mucous to prevent damage to the tissues. If the foreign body extends into the lungs, excessive mucous will build up there too, and possibly cause pneumonia. His violent sneezing is an attempt to dislodge the FB and is not normal. Something is very wrong here and he should be seen by a vet. Don't let this go on much longer....

KiKiVo · 05-17-2009, 08:22 AM

Well it has been four days so that means the "sneezing fits" have come back but now they are more violent and frequent than the ever gave been, about every 10 minutes and completely covers the floor in mucus but again the mucus is clear and all the literature says this is not a problem as long as it is clear, however, the vet said sometimes it can be clear in small puppies but still be a problem. It has completely incapacitated him since he is so scared of what his body is doing. Yesterday he was very energetic and not a sneeze in four days. He pooped for the first time in days yesterday which was a relief because his tummy was so tight for a 3 pound 4 month old puppy. One time when this happened force feeding Nutri-Cal helped. Again before he sneezes I can feel his tummy gurguling sort of like when we eat something that does not agree with us so I am trying to figure if stomach juices are getting into his nose since he it not throwing up at all.
Is the most important fact every time it happens he has not ate anything for at least 6 hours.

lillymae · 05-17-2009, 09:24 AM

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE Have the vet do a culture of the mucas. And get him on some Chlorpheniramine. You can get it cheaper at Wal-Mart it's called Chlortabs by equate under $3.00 between $10.00 & $20.00 from the vet. It is EXACTLY the same as what the vet sells you and the same mg. I know , I used to work for a vet. Start out with 1/8 of a pill 2x a day. if the 1/8 seems to really wipe him out then only give it to him 1x a day. Talk to the vet about it. AND MAKE HIM DO A CULTURE the antibiotic he has your puppy on may not even be the rite antibiotic.

kjc · 05-17-2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiKiVo

Well it has been four days so that means the "sneezing fits" have come back but now they are more violent and frequent than the ever gave been, about every 10 minutes and completely covers the floor in mucus but again the mucus is clear and all the literature says this is not a problem as long as it is clear, however, the vet said sometimes it can be clear in small puppies but still be a problem. The amount is the problem and not normal in any way. It will eventually turn cloudy due to bacteria. It will not go away until the Foreign Body is removed, then the puppy's body will stop producing it. It has completely incapacitated him since he is so scared of what his body is doing. Yesterday he was very energetic and not a sneeze in four days. Because the sneezing dislodges the Foreign Body temporarily to where it feels comfortable. He pooped for the first time in days yesterday which was a relief because his tummy was so tight for a 3 pound 4 month old puppy. One time when this happened force feeding Nutri-Cal helped. It coats the throat. Again before he sneezes I can feel his tummy gurguling (could be normal bowels sounds or excess mucous) sort of like when we eat something that does not agree with us so I am trying to figure if stomach juices are getting into his nose since he it not throwing up at all.
Is the most important fact every time it happens he has not ate anything for at least 6 hours.Eating and swallowing may help to keep the Foreign Body down. When it cannot be digested, it will try to work it's way out, causing irritation and sneezing.

When it happened to my puppy, she had the exact same symptoms. I called them headbanging sneezes, bc she almost knocked herself unconcious, they were so violent. After an episode, she almost passed out from the exertion. Then she would go for days without incident. And then it would happen again. I have been a Vet Tech, ER Vet Tech, and Surgical Vet Assistant for 20 years.

lillymae · 05-17-2009, 05:14 PM

There you go, Good Job Kjc!!!!!!!!!!
So I still say do a culture, and inquire about ENDOSCOPY, although the scope may be too large for this tiny nose. A CT or Ultra sound may or may not show a foreigh body, depending on what it is or if there is even anything in there.

kjc · 05-17-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lillymae

There you go, Good Job Kjc!!!!!!!!!!
So I still say do a culture, and inquire about ENDOSCOPY, although the scope may be too large for this tiny nose. A CT or Ultra sound may or may not show a foreigh body, depending on what it is or if there is even anything in there.

I was thinking the FB to be very long and can be seen in the pup's throat. The piece of grass I removed from my pup's nose was longer than her! It curled in on itself which made it narrow enough to fit up the nose. Best suggestion is to take a video of a sneezing episode or at least some photos, especially of the amount of mucous and how tired he is after, to show the vet. I would also change vets, as the first said nothing more can be done.

I reread the original post, you got the pup from a large group of puppies? Was the place clean? Where the pups clean?

You also had another similar post, is this about the same pup or a different pup?

Also, what's his temperature? Have you seen anything unusual in his poo since this started??

I know this stuff can get expensive. Please if you cannot afford to take him to the Vet again, consider surrendering him to a Yorkie Rescue. They will see he gets medical care. Or CareCredit is a credit card for medical treatments, human and animal. Are you near a University? Some times they are less expensive than regular or specialty vets.

kjc · 05-17-2009, 07:55 PM

The College of Veterinary Medicine at Washington State University
Main Hospital Switchboard: 509-335-0711

The Veterinary Teaching Hospital at Washington State University

lillymae · 05-17-2009, 08:41 PM

I agree, CHANGE VETS. If puppy is not pooping well he needs some pumpkin or digestive enzymes, Super Digestaway, By SOLARAY is a good one and most healthfood stores carry it . Open the capsule and sprinkle a tiny bit on his food each time you feed him. I also noticed you said he goes for 6 hrs without food. This is not a good thing for a puppy of his size and maybe it is his stomache acids coming up in his nose. The gurgling in his tummy are hungry tummy sounds, Exactly what my dog with acid stomach does, but he will vomit bile. However People can suffer cronic cough and or sinus problems with acid reflux. I have never seen a dog do this, but I would think it is possible. BUT you do need to rule out a foriegn body in there. I live near washington state university, and thats where I took my dog with cronic rhinitis caused by the bordatella through the nose. And they Do Not cut any breaks, they scoped every hole in his body, cost a couple thousand. But it was worth it just to know there was no foriegn body. And he has much improved with treatment-ChlorTabs 3x a day for the rest of his life. Also try Famotidine its pepcid. Equate Acid Controller is the same thing and again much cheaper then from the vet. You need to check with the vet about the dose , my dog is 11 lbs and can take 1/4 tab but not sure for a pup that small, maybe kjc could answer that for you . Anyway some things to try while waiting for the vet to figure it out.

KiKiVo · 05-17-2009, 09:33 PM

He is back to normal again for the rest of the day. But I have to think it will start again in a few days. One other thing about the not eating for 6 hours is also he is sleeping for a long time when the episodes start. The reason he has not eaten for so long is because he is sleeping. Believe it or not this puppy can sleep for 6 hours straight. Never seen anything like it.
Nutri Cal, then other food, chicken, or whatever we can get him to eat. Probably not good for constipation but we are very concerned about his eating. He did poop again today so two days in a row is pretty good for him. And now he is pooping as I type, two times today.
He has been very playful today. This is why I am thinking this is not a virus/illness kind of thing.
The AKC people gave me a coupon for a free vet visit so I will print that up because it looks like the 90 days of free insurance has a 30 day waiting period for illness. But it is the procedures that will be expensive not the visit.
The puppy did not come from the cleanest house in the world but they were kept inside and I trust the breeder since I bought my original dog from her 10 years ago before he was killed recently. One concern is he was much less active than all the other puppies at the breeder (I chose him because he looked like my other dog that died and he happens to even be his nephew). He was the last of the January litter and six weeks past the time he could have been first adopted. She was already selling through two younger litters and he was still there, the last in the litter. I wonder if some issues showed up that caused people to not select this puppy or possibly return it. We love him a lot but two thousand dollars for diagnostics is not an option. We were ready to just throw up our arms this morning with frustration but we did everything we could on our own, force feeding, then he would drink water.
I need to get his nose checked. Or are you saying the FB could be in his digestive tract?

kjc · 05-17-2009, 11:01 PM

I think it could extend that far. Up the nose, down the throat, into the stomach or lungs. I think the lack of appetite and not pooing regular is more resulting from the excessive mucous. I also think if it were allergies, he would be sneezing all the time, not just every 3-4 days.

If you get it on film, you may be able to email it to the University. An x-ray would be helpful, but I really think it will be visible in his nose and throat when they do the exam. So you may get away with just the exam and x-ray fee.

My pup's episodes were so violent, I was waiting for her to have a heart attack. It took quite a few tries looking up her nose with a flashlight everyday at different times to try to see something. Then I saw something bright green, maybe the diameter of a dressmaker's pin. I grabbed my tweezers and very slowly removed a blade of grass. The odd thing is that the tip of the grass came out first. So that means that she ate the grass, then vomited and this blade of grass went up her nose instead of coming out of her mouth, and got lodged there.

lillymae · 05-17-2009, 11:17 PM

No , As kjc said her dog had the fb in his nose and down throat because the fb was so long. If it's something like that it could be seen by looking down his throat. Probably have to knock him out to do it . I would start the other things tonight or tomorrow the sooner the better. That way if it's one of the things I mentioned, he will be on the road to recovery. And those treatments certainly will not hurt him, and are very inexpensive. If you see no difference in a day or two , Then I would have a culture of the mucas and either pictures of some kind or endoscopy. And if you have access to a video cam that would be helpfull to show the vet, as kjc said. I think there is a lady vet somewhere in oregon that does endoscopy for a whole lot cheaper then WASU, I will make some calls tomorrow to see if I can find her.

lillymae · 05-17-2009, 11:26 PM

Also I'm sure he sleeps so long because he is exhausted from these episodes.

KiKiVo · 05-18-2009, 08:28 PM

KiKi is eating again, almost everything, except his puppy food. Shredded boiled chicken and ground beef (no fat), and puppy treats, too. He has been very active for the past 36 hours. He wants to play, even 1 o'clock in the morning. He poops twice a day, now. Yeah!!!

lillymae · 05-18-2009, 09:08 PM

Ok. I found her name Dr.Janet Gordon. I just can't find her location. She was in Spokane for a while about 4 yrs ago , last I heard she was giong to Oregon. She does rhinoscopy for WAY less then any one I have heard of. Wish I knew about her when my dog needed it. Any way I will keep searching for her

KiKiVo · 05-19-2009, 03:54 PM

OK went to the vet again today after he started having the attacks again today just like clock work. We were pretty much able to determine it is probably not his nose. We could squeeze his belly and get the "sneezing" fits to happen. I actually think it is fluid from his stomach coming up into his nose. I went ahead did some X-Rays and they were able to see everything down to stomach was fine but some blockage down in the intestines and they were quite irritated. Of course, they said nothing obvious they could see from X Ray so ultrasound would be an additional $500...

I said no, of course.
They are giving him Sucralfate to make his stomach feel better and recommend Metronidazole but that one is expensive. Metronidazole is an antibiotic used to kill intestinal parasites (giardia) and bacterial infections and they said it could help with the inflammation. They were going to give me Panacur but said they could not because it looks like it could be a partial FB obstruction which would make his condition worse if they gave him that. He is pooping every day but they were concerned about its black "tar" like consistency, a sign that blood may be present.
Of course they were asking for $150 blood tests as well but I not ready for that either. Because of his weakness and health they would NOT give him his Bordetella, which he has never had, a 4th Distemper shot and a rabies shot. Of course he is running around now but 2-3 days from now he will be on death's door again.
Any idea if the Metronidazole is worth the expense?

05-16-2009, 05:13 PM	#16
kjc I♥PeekTinkySaph&Finny Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 18,866	Any update? Maybe to the vet for xrays, or better yet an endoscopy? If it is a foreign object the body will coat it with mucous to prevent damage to the tissues. If the foreign body extends into the lungs, excessive mucous will build up there too, and possibly cause pneumonia. His violent sneezing is an attempt to dislodge the FB and is not normal. Something is very wrong here and he should be seen by a vet. Don't let this go on much longer.... __________________ Kat Chloe Lizzy PeekABooTinkerbell SapphireInfinity

05-17-2009, 07:55 PM	#22
kjc I♥PeekTinkySaph&Finny Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 18,866	The College of Veterinary Medicine at Washington State University Main Hospital Switchboard: 509-335-0711 The Veterinary Teaching Hospital at Washington State University __________________ Kat Chloe Lizzy PeekABooTinkerbell SapphireInfinity

05-17-2009, 09:33 PM	#24
KiKiVo Yorkie Talker Join Date: May 2009 Location: Bainbridge Island, WA USA Posts: 19	He is back to normal again for the rest of the day. But I have to think it will start again in a few days. One other thing about the not eating for 6 hours is also he is sleeping for a long time when the episodes start. The reason he has not eaten for so long is because he is sleeping. Believe it or not this puppy can sleep for 6 hours straight. Never seen anything like it. Nutri Cal, then other food, chicken, or whatever we can get him to eat. Probably not good for constipation but we are very concerned about his eating. He did poop again today so two days in a row is pretty good for him. And now he is pooping as I type, two times today. He has been very playful today. This is why I am thinking this is not a virus/illness kind of thing. The AKC people gave me a coupon for a free vet visit so I will print that up because it looks like the 90 days of free insurance has a 30 day waiting period for illness. But it is the procedures that will be expensive not the visit. The puppy did not come from the cleanest house in the world but they were kept inside and I trust the breeder since I bought my original dog from her 10 years ago before he was killed recently. One concern is he was much less active than all the other puppies at the breeder (I chose him because he looked like my other dog that died and he happens to even be his nephew). He was the last of the January litter and six weeks past the time he could have been first adopted. She was already selling through two younger litters and he was still there, the last in the litter. I wonder if some issues showed up that caused people to not select this puppy or possibly return it. We love him a lot but two thousand dollars for diagnostics is not an option. We were ready to just throw up our arms this morning with frustration but we did everything we could on our own, force feeding, then he would drink water. I need to get his nose checked. Or are you saying the FB could be in his digestive tract? Last edited by KiKiVo; 05-17-2009 at 09:35 PM.

05-17-2009, 11:01 PM	#25
kjc I♥PeekTinkySaph&Finny Donating Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 18,866	I think it could extend that far. Up the nose, down the throat, into the stomach or lungs. I think the lack of appetite and not pooing regular is more resulting from the excessive mucous. I also think if it were allergies, he would be sneezing all the time, not just every 3-4 days. If you get it on film, you may be able to email it to the University. An x-ray would be helpful, but I really think it will be visible in his nose and throat when they do the exam. So you may get away with just the exam and x-ray fee. My pup's episodes were so violent, I was waiting for her to have a heart attack. It took quite a few tries looking up her nose with a flashlight everyday at different times to try to see something. Then I saw something bright green, maybe the diameter of a dressmaker's pin. I grabbed my tweezers and very slowly removed a blade of grass. The odd thing is that the tip of the grass came out first. So that means that she ate the grass, then vomited and this blade of grass went up her nose instead of coming out of her mouth, and got lodged there. __________________ Kat Chloe Lizzy PeekABooTinkerbell SapphireInfinity

05-17-2009, 08:22 AM	#17
KiKiVo Yorkie Talker Join Date: May 2009 Location: Bainbridge Island, WA USA Posts: 19	Well it has been four days so that means the "sneezing fits" have come back but now they are more violent and frequent than the ever gave been, about every 10 minutes and completely covers the floor in mucus but again the mucus is clear and all the literature says this is not a problem as long as it is clear, however, the vet said sometimes it can be clear in small puppies but still be a problem. It has completely incapacitated him since he is so scared of what his body is doing. Yesterday he was very energetic and not a sneeze in four days. He pooped for the first time in days yesterday which was a relief because his tummy was so tight for a 3 pound 4 month old puppy. One time when this happened force feeding Nutri-Cal helped. Again before he sneezes I can feel his tummy gurguling sort of like when we eat something that does not agree with us so I am trying to figure if stomach juices are getting into his nose since he it not throwing up at all. Is the most important fact every time it happens he has not ate anything for at least 6 hours.

05-17-2009, 09:24 AM	#18
lillymae YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Idaho Posts: 4,544	PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE Have the vet do a culture of the mucas. And get him on some Chlorpheniramine. You can get it cheaper at Wal-Mart it's called Chlortabs by equate under $3.00 between $10.00 & $20.00 from the vet. It is EXACTLY the same as what the vet sells you and the same mg. I know , I used to work for a vet. Start out with 1/8 of a pill 2x a day. if the 1/8 seems to really wipe him out then only give it to him 1x a day. Talk to the vet about it. AND MAKE HIM DO A CULTURE the antibiotic he has your puppy on may not even be the rite antibiotic.

05-17-2009, 05:14 PM	#20
lillymae YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Idaho Posts: 4,544	There you go, Good Job Kjc!!!!!!!!!! So I still say do a culture, and inquire about ENDOSCOPY, although the scope may be too large for this tiny nose. A CT or Ultra sound may or may not show a foreigh body, depending on what it is or if there is even anything in there.

05-17-2009, 08:41 PM	#23
lillymae YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Idaho Posts: 4,544	I agree, CHANGE VETS. If puppy is not pooping well he needs some pumpkin or digestive enzymes, Super Digestaway, By SOLARAY is a good one and most healthfood stores carry it . Open the capsule and sprinkle a tiny bit on his food each time you feed him. I also noticed you said he goes for 6 hrs without food. This is not a good thing for a puppy of his size and maybe it is his stomache acids coming up in his nose. The gurgling in his tummy are hungry tummy sounds, Exactly what my dog with acid stomach does, but he will vomit bile. However People can suffer cronic cough and or sinus problems with acid reflux. I have never seen a dog do this, but I would think it is possible. BUT you do need to rule out a foriegn body in there. I live near washington state university, and thats where I took my dog with cronic rhinitis caused by the bordatella through the nose. And they Do Not cut any breaks, they scoped every hole in his body, cost a couple thousand. But it was worth it just to know there was no foriegn body. And he has much improved with treatment-ChlorTabs 3x a day for the rest of his life. Also try Famotidine its pepcid. Equate Acid Controller is the same thing and again much cheaper then from the vet. You need to check with the vet about the dose , my dog is 11 lbs and can take 1/4 tab but not sure for a pup that small, maybe kjc could answer that for you . Anyway some things to try while waiting for the vet to figure it out.

05-17-2009, 11:17 PM	#26
lillymae YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Idaho Posts: 4,544	No , As kjc said her dog had the fb in his nose and down throat because the fb was so long. If it's something like that it could be seen by looking down his throat. Probably have to knock him out to do it . I would start the other things tonight or tomorrow the sooner the better. That way if it's one of the things I mentioned, he will be on the road to recovery. And those treatments certainly will not hurt him, and are very inexpensive. If you see no difference in a day or two , Then I would have a culture of the mucas and either pictures of some kind or endoscopy. And if you have access to a video cam that would be helpfull to show the vet, as kjc said. I think there is a lady vet somewhere in oregon that does endoscopy for a whole lot cheaper then WASU, I will make some calls tomorrow to see if I can find her.

05-17-2009, 11:26 PM	#27
lillymae YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Idaho Posts: 4,544	Also I'm sure he sleeps so long because he is exhausted from these episodes.

05-18-2009, 08:28 PM	#28
KiKiVo Yorkie Talker Join Date: May 2009 Location: Bainbridge Island, WA USA Posts: 19	KiKi is eating again, almost everything, except his puppy food. Shredded boiled chicken and ground beef (no fat), and puppy treats, too. He has been very active for the past 36 hours. He wants to play, even 1 o'clock in the morning. He poops twice a day, now. Yeah!!!

05-18-2009, 09:08 PM	#29
lillymae YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Idaho Posts: 4,544	Ok. I found her name Dr.Janet Gordon. I just can't find her location. She was in Spokane for a while about 4 yrs ago , last I heard she was giong to Oregon. She does rhinoscopy for WAY less then any one I have heard of. Wish I knew about her when my dog needed it. Any way I will keep searching for her

05-19-2009, 03:54 PM	#30
KiKiVo Yorkie Talker Join Date: May 2009 Location: Bainbridge Island, WA USA Posts: 19	OK went to the vet again today after he started having the attacks again today just like clock work. We were pretty much able to determine it is probably not his nose. We could squeeze his belly and get the "sneezing" fits to happen. I actually think it is fluid from his stomach coming up into his nose. I went ahead did some X-Rays and they were able to see everything down to stomach was fine but some blockage down in the intestines and they were quite irritated. Of course, they said nothing obvious they could see from X Ray so ultrasound would be an additional $500... I said no, of course. They are giving him Sucralfate to make his stomach feel better and recommend Metronidazole but that one is expensive. Metronidazole is an antibiotic used to kill intestinal parasites (giardia) and bacterial infections and they said it could help with the inflammation. They were going to give me Panacur but said they could not because it looks like it could be a partial FB obstruction which would make his condition worse if they gave him that. He is pooping every day but they were concerned about its black "tar" like consistency, a sign that blood may be present. Of course they were asking for $150 blood tests as well but I not ready for that either. Because of his weakness and health they would NOT give him his Bordetella, which he has never had, a 4th Distemper shot and a rabies shot. Of course he is running around now but 2-3 days from now he will be on death's door again. Any idea if the Metronidazole is worth the expense?