Hypoglycemia or ?? - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

CupofDog · 11-24-2008, 02:31 PM

It takes a 5-10 minutes, kind of like when we get REALLY dehydrated and nauseous - then finally get fluids, it takes about 5-10 minutes to feel better...

Ella Bean was hypoglycemic when she came home - she was four months and less then a pound. My little munckin was almost constantly having episodes! I used Nutri-cal in emergencies and fed her throughout the day. Still, if she didn't get a little food every two hours around the clock, the drunken-looking walk would start. Needless to say I was pretty tired for the first month until she stabilized!

Ellie May · 11-24-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CupofDog

It takes a 5-10 minutes, kind of like when we get REALLY dehydrated and nauseous - then finally get fluids, it takes about 5-10 minutes to feel better...

Ella Bean was hypoglycemic when she came home - she was four months and less then a pound. My little munckin was almost constantly having episodes! I used Nutri-cal in emergencies and fed her throughout the day. Still, if she didn't get a little food every two hours around the clock, the drunken-looking walk would start. Needless to say I was pretty tired for the first month until she stabilized!

I was asking because if this pup doesn't stabilize almost immediately after getting sugar, there could be something way more serious going on.

CupofDog · 11-24-2008, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I was asking because if this pup doesn't stabilize almost immediately after getting sugar, there could be something way more serious going on.

Oh! LOL, I thought you were asking GENERALLY!!

cdnyorkie · 11-24-2008, 03:36 PM

Well Linus went to the vet this afternoon. Unfortunately it's worse. The vet believes he has a liver shunt. They drew some blood today and he's returning in the morning for another test while he's fasting. I am just beside myself about this! I specifically asked the breeder twice if she'd ever had a problem with shunts and of course, the answer was no. She's been breeding for 30 years and I'm the first with a shunt puppy. Give me a break. Linus' health guarantee is good for a year but I'm not sure what the guarantee entails. In another part of the agreement it says money will not be refunded on returned puppies. The puppy will be replaced with a puppy. I don't want another puppy especially from there. I want Linus. I just hope it's the extrahepatic and not intra. I'll wait to have the results in and then call her. I'm so sick about this!

cdnyorkie · 11-24-2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I was asking because if this pup doesn't stabilize almost immediately after getting sugar, there could be something way more serious going on.

And you are right Ellie May. Something is way more serious. Read my most recent most.

Ellie May · 11-24-2008, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdnyorkie

And you are right Ellie May. Something is way more serious. Read my most recent most.

Because of the amount of attacks he seemed to be having, this is what I was thinking it was. I'm so sorry.

It could also be MVD (small shunting throughout the liver managed by supplements and diet).

Please post the blood test results when you get them.

CupofDog · 11-24-2008, 04:45 PM

I am soo sorry! That is horrible. My thoughts are with you and your baby...Please keep us to date on how it is going with Linus....

Yorkieluv · 11-24-2008, 04:52 PM

So sorry to read this...Like Crystal said, please do post the results of the bloodwork when you get them back.
Just remember that liver problems are not a death sentence! Even if it's intrahepatic or MVD, symptoms and the problem can be controlled through special diet, supplements, and lactulose.

cdnyorkie · 11-24-2008, 06:09 PM

I look at Linus differently now. I'm afraid he's going to seizure. His little head bobs more now (I think). He's still active as anything (humping all his stuffed animals...sheesh!). I'm on complete brain overload right now, can't eat cause I'm so stressed out about this but I can't remember, once the blood tests confirm it's a shunt, I do have to go on for more diagnostic testing to confirm what kind of shunt??? I'm also concerned about his diet. I bought him canned puppy food this morning because I didn't feel he was eating enough of the wet/dry kibble and he loves it. The vet says she's not concerned about the protein right now, just that he's eating. I think we're going to worry about diet very soon...like when these results confirm the shunt then we'll think of diet. But I'm wondering since he's loving the canned food and eating a great amount, is this why his head seems to be bobbing more or am I just freaked right out. I'm sorry to ramble on! I'm soooo upset! I also phoned the breeder and asked if the results come back and it's a congenital defect, what is she going to do? She said they usually replace the puppy. I don't want another puppy and risk this again. We're are also in love with him and don't want to give him up. Forget it. She said she's very interested in knowing what the results are. She says it sounds like a head injury. Linus hasn't fallen at all. He doesn't even use the stairs yet cause he's so petite. Well I'd better let you all go. Holy I can ramble on!

Yorkieluv · 11-24-2008, 06:15 PM

When protein is ingested, it produces ammonia which is supposed to be filtered by the liver, but when there is a liver shunt, the ammonia is not able to be filtered and it enters the bloodstream...Hence, the neurological symptoms (bobbing head). Meats/poultry produce the most ammonia and are hardest on their livers. Vegetarian/dairy protein is much preferred in these cases because they produce less ammonia.
Seizures are symptoms of Hepatic Encephalopathy which happens when toxins are backed up...This baby needs lactulose asap if he's exhibiting any neurological symptoms whatsoever or lethargy or any slew of symptoms associated with liver shunt. Has he gone #2 recently? If so, was it firm?

Nancy1999 · 11-24-2008, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorkieluv

When protein is ingested, it produces ammonia which is supposed to be filtered by the liver, but when there is a liver shunt, the ammonia is not able to be filtered and it enters the bloodstream...Hence, the neurological symptoms (bobbing head). Meats/poultry produce the most ammonia and are hardest on their livers. Vegetarian/dairy protein is much preferred in these cases because they produce less ammonia.
Seizures are symptoms of Hepatic Encephalopathy which happens when toxins are backed up...This baby needs lactulose asap if he's exhibiting any neurological symptoms whatsoever or lethargy or any slew of symptoms associated with liver shunt. Has he gone #2 recently? If so, was it firm?

Very interesting, would you say that the video I posted was a better example of liver shunt or hypoglycemia?

Here's the link again. NatureSick.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

cdnyorkie · 11-24-2008, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Very interesting, would you say that the video I posted was a better example of liver shunt or hypoglycemia?

Here's the link again. NatureSick.flv - Video - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

I really thought Linus' mini episodes looked like that Yorkie's, but his were milder.

cdnyorkie · 11-24-2008, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorkieluv

When protein is ingested, it produces ammonia which is supposed to be filtered by the liver, but when there is a liver shunt, the ammonia is not able to be filtered and it enters the bloodstream...Hence, the neurological symptoms (bobbing head). Meats/poultry produce the most ammonia and are hardest on their livers. Vegetarian/dairy protein is much preferred in these cases because they produce less ammonia.
Seizures are symptoms of Hepatic Encephalopathy which happens when toxins are backed up...This baby needs lactulose asap if he's exhibiting any neurological symptoms whatsoever or lethargy or any slew of symptoms associated with liver shunt. Has he gone #2 recently? If so, was it firm?

He did this afternoon and it was firm. Looked normal to me. Good colour too. Tomorrow I will know more with these blood test results. I will figure this out once the liver problems have been confirmed. What is the purpose of lactulose?

TeahsPet · 11-24-2008, 07:12 PM

I am so sorry to hear about your baby. Please keep us informed of what is going on with him. Did the breeder have a BA test done before you purchased him? I know of someone who has had the surgery done on one of her dogs (that came from a breeder in Germany) and she is living a full happy and healthy life. Please send me a message if you need the name of a good vet specialty clinic in ON that can do the surgery. I will be keeping my fingers crossed that it is not LS and there is a simple explanation. I agree with the earlier post...your baby needs to be treated immediately and should be on a protein restricted diet. I don't mean to scare you but untreated LS can be fatal and if your baby is displaying acute signs then it needs immediate attention. Please keep us posted.

Ellie May · 11-25-2008, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdnyorkie

He did this afternoon and it was firm. Looked normal to me. Good colour too. Tomorrow I will know more with these blood test results. I will figure this out once the liver problems have been confirmed. What is the purpose of lactulose?

I "think" lactulose binds the toxins so they can be excreted through their stool. This pup absolutely needs to be on it immediately.
And as much as I hate to disagree with people's vets, I would say right now it is time to be extremely concerned about diet. Not tomorrow, not the next day... If this is liver shunt, it may do more damage to continue feeding him this way. I would get some canned L/D from the vet for now.

The blood tests that the vet is doing now only show liver function, but can't diagnose liver shunt. LS will be suspected if his bile acids are high but it could also be MVD. A Protein C blood test sent to Cornell can help in the diagnosis and then you could go on to scintography. Some vets insist on ultrasound and that is good to see the size of the liver and to see if there are bladder stones secondary to the liver problem but they are only 60-80% accurate in diagnosing shunts.

If this were my pup, he would be on Denosyl or Vetri DMG, lactulose, milk thistle, fish oil, vitamin e, possibly probiotics and low protein diet if hte results are high. I may even start now because of the severity of the symptoms...since they seem to be getting worse...

We are here if you have any questions.

11-24-2008, 02:31 PM	#16
CupofDog YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Washington D.C. Posts: 707	It takes a 5-10 minutes, kind of like when we get REALLY dehydrated and nauseous - then finally get fluids, it takes about 5-10 minutes to feel better... Ella Bean was hypoglycemic when she came home - she was four months and less then a pound. My little munckin was almost constantly having episodes! I used Nutri-cal in emergencies and fed her throughout the day. Still, if she didn't get a little food every two hours around the clock, the drunken-looking walk would start. Needless to say I was pretty tired for the first month until she stabilized! __________________ Roving dogs do not indicate the civilization or compassion of the society; they betray on the contrary the ignorance and lethargy of its members. -Ghandi

11-24-2008, 04:45 PM	#22
CupofDog YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Washington D.C. Posts: 707	I am soo sorry! That is horrible. My thoughts are with you and your baby...Please keep us to date on how it is going with Linus.... __________________ Roving dogs do not indicate the civilization or compassion of the society; they betray on the contrary the ignorance and lethargy of its members. -Ghandi

11-24-2008, 04:52 PM	#23
Yorkieluv Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 7,178	So sorry to read this...Like Crystal said, please do post the results of the bloodwork when you get them back. Just remember that liver problems are not a death sentence! Even if it's intrahepatic or MVD, symptoms and the problem can be controlled through special diet, supplements, and lactulose. __________________ Miko 's his Mommy

11-24-2008, 06:15 PM	#25
Yorkieluv Donating YT 3000 Club Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 7,178	When protein is ingested, it produces ammonia which is supposed to be filtered by the liver, but when there is a liver shunt, the ammonia is not able to be filtered and it enters the bloodstream...Hence, the neurological symptoms (bobbing head). Meats/poultry produce the most ammonia and are hardest on their livers. Vegetarian/dairy protein is much preferred in these cases because they produce less ammonia. Seizures are symptoms of Hepatic Encephalopathy which happens when toxins are backed up...This baby needs lactulose asap if he's exhibiting any neurological symptoms whatsoever or lethargy or any slew of symptoms associated with liver shunt. Has he gone #2 recently? If so, was it firm? __________________ Miko 's his Mommy

11-24-2008, 03:36 PM	#19
cdnyorkie Yorkie Talker Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 14	Well Linus went to the vet this afternoon. Unfortunately it's worse. The vet believes he has a liver shunt. They drew some blood today and he's returning in the morning for another test while he's fasting. I am just beside myself about this! I specifically asked the breeder twice if she'd ever had a problem with shunts and of course, the answer was no. She's been breeding for 30 years and I'm the first with a shunt puppy. Give me a break. Linus' health guarantee is good for a year but I'm not sure what the guarantee entails. In another part of the agreement it says money will not be refunded on returned puppies. The puppy will be replaced with a puppy. I don't want another puppy especially from there. I want Linus. I just hope it's the extrahepatic and not intra. I'll wait to have the results in and then call her. I'm so sick about this!

11-24-2008, 06:09 PM	#24
cdnyorkie Yorkie Talker Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 14	I look at Linus differently now. I'm afraid he's going to seizure. His little head bobs more now (I think). He's still active as anything (humping all his stuffed animals...sheesh!). I'm on complete brain overload right now, can't eat cause I'm so stressed out about this but I can't remember, once the blood tests confirm it's a shunt, I do have to go on for more diagnostic testing to confirm what kind of shunt??? I'm also concerned about his diet. I bought him canned puppy food this morning because I didn't feel he was eating enough of the wet/dry kibble and he loves it. The vet says she's not concerned about the protein right now, just that he's eating. I think we're going to worry about diet very soon...like when these results confirm the shunt then we'll think of diet. But I'm wondering since he's loving the canned food and eating a great amount, is this why his head seems to be bobbing more or am I just freaked right out. I'm sorry to ramble on! I'm soooo upset! I also phoned the breeder and asked if the results come back and it's a congenital defect, what is she going to do? She said they usually replace the puppy. I don't want another puppy and risk this again. We're are also in love with him and don't want to give him up. Forget it. She said she's very interested in knowing what the results are. She says it sounds like a head injury. Linus hasn't fallen at all. He doesn't even use the stairs yet cause he's so petite. Well I'd better let you all go. Holy I can ramble on!

11-24-2008, 07:12 PM	#29
TeahsPet Yorkie Yakker Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 36	I am so sorry to hear about your baby. Please keep us informed of what is going on with him. Did the breeder have a BA test done before you purchased him? I know of someone who has had the surgery done on one of her dogs (that came from a breeder in Germany) and she is living a full happy and healthy life. Please send me a message if you need the name of a good vet specialty clinic in ON that can do the surgery. I will be keeping my fingers crossed that it is not LS and there is a simple explanation. I agree with the earlier post...your baby needs to be treated immediately and should be on a protein restricted diet. I don't mean to scare you but untreated LS can be fatal and if your baby is displaying acute signs then it needs immediate attention. Please keep us posted.